RE: War on Drugs "killing our children"

RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

LafayetteLady -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/3/2012 1:50:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tng In other words you don't have an answer -- didn't think you would. No, in other words, I think it is complete idiocy to make the statement you did. Have you ever seen someone die from a heroin overdose? Or even just witness how that addiction affects not only their life, but the lives of the people around them? Legalizing such a drug isn't going to make that change. Comparing the prohibition on alcohol to the "prohibition" of drugs like heroin is ridiculous and stupid and uninformed. Not everyone who uses alcohol becomes an alcoholic, and many people can drink alcohol and be responsible about it. This is not the case with heroin. If you use heroin even just socially, you WILL become physically addicted. There is no "addiction gene" that needs to be involved, it is a chemical reaction within your body that will happen no matter who you are. Same thing with meth. These addictions are ugly, deadly and dangerous to everyone around you as well. Legalizing them isn't going to make for more "responsible" use of these drugs. Look at the number of people who become addicted to prescription drugs. They are taking a drug that they have obtained "legally." It being obtained legally doesn't change anything. But please, continue to believe there is nothing wrong with drug use. Everyone is entitled to be ignorant and stupid. Be a card carrying member of NORML. Statements like the one you made aren't made because you are an intelligent, inquisitive young woman. They are made because you are ignorant and uninformed and ridiculously naive.

MrBukani -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/3/2012 2:18:19 AM)
Decriminalizing drugs is not the same as legalizing. Hard drugs should be decriminalized but not legalized. Cannabis should be legalized like alcohol or alcohol should be illegal. Simple. Alcohol does a ton more damage to society and individuals then cannabis. Why make it hard. And thanks very much for pushin the fucked up war on drugs globally. Its here as well. Always lookin for a war to militarize society. I hear some people like that. I really dont know what the cons have to bitch about the left wing. There is no left wing left, its BROKEN WE ARE ALL RIGHT WINGED BASTARDS AND BITCHES THESE DAYS.[:D]

LafayetteLady -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/3/2012 2:25:55 AM)
I openly admit that addicts should be given treatment not incarceration. However, "decriminalizing" would also mean that the people who are selling the drugs would not face the penalties they should and that is a problem. As for marijuana, I tend to disagree. In states where marijuana has become legal for medical reasons, the regularion on those medical reasons is laughable, as in anyone can claim they need it for their medical "problem." I admit that alcohol abuse causes problems, but I disagree that alcohol abuse causes more problems that marijuana, and I have seen the problems that both can cause.

tng -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/3/2012 2:36:03 AM)
LOL, Aww that's sweet of you to say, but your lashing out like an grouchy she-bear is the best evidence that you don't really have anything to go on here, just some typical exaggerated fear mongering and insults used to deflect reasoned discussion and disguise the weakness of your position. quote: Have you ever seen someone die from a heroin overdose? Or even just witness how that addiction affects not only their life, but the lives of the people around them? Yes and yes, have you? But that's not really important, right? Its just more distraction. The question you want to avoid is if the harm that drug use causes justifies locking up millions of people in Crime University at enormous expense, saddling them with a record that will effectively cripple them for life. You're destroying their lives just as surely and far more effectively than the drugs ever do -- at least they "can" get off the drugs, there's no way to get off being a felon, is there? Are you sure the cure isn't worse than the disease?

MrBukani -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/3/2012 3:26:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady I openly admit that addicts should be given treatment not incarceration. However, "decriminalizing" would also mean that the people who are selling the drugs would not face the penalties they should and that is a problem. As for marijuana, I tend to disagree. In states where marijuana has become legal for medical reasons, the regularion on those medical reasons is laughable, as in anyone can claim they need it for their medical "problem." I admit that alcohol abuse causes problems, but I disagree that alcohol abuse causes more problems that marijuana, and I have seen the problems that both can cause. I disagree that alcohol causes less problems. I could storm this thread with links to support it, but its been done a million times. Decriminalizing personal use does NOT mean its legal for dealers to push haddrugs. And yes the medical shite in America is doing more harm to legalisation then good. Should I say also I see what drugs can do? Why do you think we dont have a crystal meth problem in Holland. CAUSE WE HAVE GOOD DRUGS![:D] You have NOT studied the problems of alcohol vs cannabis, cause most studies support my view. What you have seen in your personal life dont mean shit, sorry to say. Only statistics can tell what is more harmfull. And they all point to one thing. Alcohol is the worst drug. The most related deaths and domestic violence etc.

LafayetteLady -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/3/2012 3:39:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tng LOL, Aww that's sweet of you to say, but your lashing out like an grouchy she-bear is the best evidence that you don't really have anything to go on here, just some typical exaggerated fear mongering and insults used to deflect reasoned discussion and disguise the weakness of your position. quote: Have you ever seen someone die from a heroin overdose? Or even just witness how that addiction affects not only their life, but the lives of the people around them? Yes and yes, have you? But that's not really important, right? Its just more distraction. The question you want to avoid is if the harm that drug use causes justifies locking up millions of people in Crime University at enormous expense, saddling them with a record that will effectively cripple them for life. You're destroying their lives just as surely and far more effectively than the drugs ever do -- at least they "can" get off the drugs, there's no way to get off being a felon, is there? Are you sure the cure isn't worse than the disease? Actually, yes I have seen it. Multiple times. Have also written papers and articles on the subject. But the interesting thing is that you have continually missed the part where I have openly said that drug addicts need help not incarceration. So please write back when you have raised your reading comprehension so that you aren't only picking and choosing what you feel like bitching about.

LafayetteLady -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/3/2012 3:50:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrBukani quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady I openly admit that addicts should be given treatment not incarceration. However, "decriminalizing" would also mean that the people who are selling the drugs would not face the penalties they should and that is a problem. As for marijuana, I tend to disagree. In states where marijuana has become legal for medical reasons, the regularion on those medical reasons is laughable, as in anyone can claim they need it for their medical "problem." I admit that alcohol abuse causes problems, but I disagree that alcohol abuse causes more problems that marijuana, and I have seen the problems that both can cause. I disagree that alcohol causes less problems. I could storm this thread with links to support it, but its been done a million times. Decriminalizing personal use does NOT mean its legal for dealers to push haddrugs. And yes the medical shite in America is doing more harm to legalisation then good. Should I say also I see what drugs can do? Why do you think we dont have a crystal meth problem in Holland. CAUSE WE HAVE GOOD DRUGS![:D] You have NOT studied the problems of alcohol vs cannabis, cause most studies support my view. What you have seen in your personal life dont mean shit, sorry to say. Only statistics can tell what is more harmfull. And they all point to one thing. Alcohol is the worst drug. The most related deaths and domestic violence etc. And we can easily disagree with which causes more problems. Of course, here in the States, I would be seeing what happens here in the states a bit more clearly than you. For the record, you really aren't in a position to know what I have or have not studied, are you? Just because I disagree doesn't mean you are correct. The very fact that you think you don't have a crystal meth problem where you live because you have "good drugs" is laughable. Like saying LSD is good as long as you didn't get the brown stuff at Woodstock. As far as statistics go, without seeing all the data (which few ever do) statistics can be presented any way the writer chooses. THAT is something I know quite a bit about having done it myself. Since you are likely only reading articles and reports that support the legalization, there is no doubt the statistics will be spun in that manner. More studies have been done on alcohol than on marijuana. Accepting that alcoholism is a "disease" and that there is an "alcohol" gene doesn't naturally mean that alcohol is more dangerous. There are more people who use alcohol responsibly than irresponsibly. Since marijuana is illegal in the US, there can be no "responsible" use, because it is not responsible to break the law. Even where marijuana has been legalized for medical purposes, there are a great number of people who obtain the prescriptions fraudulently, which makes them irresponsible. Now when you start looking at harder drugs, there is no such thing as using them responsibly, and there is also no "gene" involved in the addiction. We can easily agree to disagree (although I'm sure it is more difficult for you). But just like people who use prescription drugs hasn't stopped them from buying them on the street, legalizing the same drugs isn't going to stop the problems that exist with people using drugs. That's common sense.

tweakabelle -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/3/2012 6:17:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady quote: ORIGINAL: tng In other words you don't have an answer -- didn't think you would. No, in other words, I think it is complete idiocy to make the statement you did. Have you ever seen someone die from a heroin overdose? Or even just witness how that addiction affects not only their life, but the lives of the people around them? Legalizing such a drug isn't going to make that change. Comparing the prohibition on alcohol to the "prohibition" of drugs like heroin is ridiculous and stupid and uninformed. Not everyone who uses alcohol becomes an alcoholic, and many people can drink alcohol and be responsible about it. This is not the case with heroin. If you use heroin even just socially, you WILL become physically addicted. There is no "addiction gene" that needs to be involved, it is a chemical reaction within your body that will happen no matter who you are. Same thing with meth. These addictions are ugly, deadly and dangerous to everyone around you as well. Legalizing them isn't going to make for more "responsible" use of these drugs. Look at the number of people who become addicted to prescription drugs. They are taking a drug that they have obtained "legally." It being obtained legally doesn't change anything. But please, continue to believe there is nothing wrong with drug use. Everyone is entitled to be ignorant and stupid. Be a card carrying member of NORML. Statements like the one you made aren't made because you are an intelligent, inquisitive young woman. They are made because you are ignorant and uninformed and ridiculously naive. These claims in LaFayetteLady's post are almost complete fiction. This claim - "If you use heroin even just socially, you WILL become physically addicted" - is false. It takes a bit of effort to become addicted. At least 5 days consecutive use is required for one thing. This claim is so wide of the mark that it puts all your other claims in doubt. I and many other people I know have used heroin socially. We are not addicted to it. Most estimates I've seen place the number of people who use heroin socially as a multiple of those addicted. My observation usually confirmed in the literature is that other serious psychological/behavioural factors are associated with chronic opiate addiction. Given that your claims have little or no connection with reality, I have no idea on which basis you describe other views contrary to yours as "ignorant and uninformed and ridiculously naive".

tweakabelle -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/3/2012 6:47:25 AM)
It seems that the message is getting through to the readers of the Sydney Morning Herald. I was pleased to note that the results of a poll accompanying the OP are as follows: How can the "war on drugs" best be fought? More funding 2% More police 10% More research 5% More decriminalisation 83% Total votes: 14600. http://www.smh.com.au/polls/opinion/political-news/the-war-on-drugs-20120403-1w9c6.html

MrBukani -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/3/2012 6:50:44 AM)
Morphine use it once and be on the horse forever.[:D] Alcohol makes me wanna beat you up lets have more WAR![:D] Cannabis makes me say PEACE! lets have less of that?

tweakabelle -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/3/2012 7:10:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrBukani Morphine use it once and be on the horse forever.[:D] Alcohol makes me wanna beat you up lets have more WAR![:D] Cannabis makes me say PEACE! lets have less of that? I don't particularly like morphine or opiates, I don't drink alcohol at all but I am all in favour of cannabis and peace all the time. Yay! [:D]

PeonForHer -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/3/2012 7:42:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady We can easily agree to disagree (although I'm sure it is more difficult for you). But just like people who use prescription drugs hasn't stopped them from buying them on the street, legalizing the same drugs isn't going to stop the problems that exist with people using drugs. That's common sense. In that last line lies the basic problem: 'common sense' understandings of how to deal with drugs haven't worked. On the other hand, the research that indicates that decriminalising these drugs will work is counter-intuitive.

tng -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/3/2012 8:30:47 AM)
quote: But the interesting thing is that you have continually missed the part where I have openly said that drug addicts need help not incarceration. Which would constitute -- DECRIMINALIZATION!!! Weird how that works, eh?

kdsub -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/3/2012 8:40:48 AM)
quote: A group of distinguished Australians and drug policy experts point to the futility of the failed war on drugs and call again for decriminalisation of drugs. Not the first time, nor will it be the last. Nor is it the first time or the last that they will be dumbass wrong. Butch

tng -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/3/2012 8:48:53 AM)
I know, right? The crime model is working so well -- its easier to get meth than a beer.

MrBukani -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/3/2012 8:53:35 AM)
Look I come from Holland. Its all good here. I can get anything I want. Its not an obsession. I use hardrugs once about every year for fun. All is under control. I drink on the weekends and smoke. All good.

MrBukani -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/3/2012 9:25:40 AM)
IF YOU CANT SAY no TO YOUR KIDS. You're lost anyway. Marijuana VS. Crystal Meth - Funny but true video

MrBukani -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/3/2012 9:31:30 AM)
Cocaine used to be a wealthy mans drug. Now its a poor crack choice.

kdsub -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/3/2012 9:38:01 AM)
Decriminalizing drugs may lessen crime but it will not stop the suffering...We do need new ideas...what we have is not working but legalizing drugs is asinine too. Butch

tng -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/3/2012 9:46:17 AM)
So why is this particular form of suffering worth spending a ton of money to combat while other forms of suffering -- say poverty, homelessness, mental illness -- not?

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875