RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (Full Version)

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kdsub -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/10/2012 3:22:40 PM)

Edynn despite our differences I like you...I would not call you anything but passionate.

Butch



kdsub -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/10/2012 3:26:53 PM)

quote:

Why are so many posts around here so dang long?


For some this is their life not a diversion from boredom. Or they just like to read their own words. I must admit I re-read mine on occasions...lol

Butch



kdsub -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/10/2012 4:25:18 PM)

lol sorry about the spelling...after all i am ignorant...[:D]



SoftBonds -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/10/2012 5:19:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

~fast reply~

It boggles my mind that almost immediately after prohibition (in historical terms) the US could enter into... yet another prohibition. It boggles my mind that this one is playing out exactly like the last one except we are more determined to be stupid. It astonished me that anyone could look at the actual results and not think, "Hmmm, perhaps a different approach is in order."

The US is, I believe, the most incarcerated nation on earth right now. The land of the free is a ridiculous concept in that light.

Most disturbing to me is that despite the actual usage statistics, the VAST majority of people incarcerated for drug crimes are black. I really don't see any other way to look at it but we are enslaving blacks all over again in order to make their masters (owners in the prison industrial complex) wealthy. My personal guess is that when rich white folk start going to jail in equal numbers we'd stop the war on drugs. There are more blacks in prison right now than were ever enslaved just prior to the civil war. I believe that may be both per capita and in absolute numbers but I don't remember the actual statistics. Either way, it's gruesome.


Actually, you hit one nail on the head, but there are two other nails right next to that one.
1. By sending so many minorities (Hispanics as well as Blacks) to prison, you end their right to vote. It is a great voter suppression tactic, especially in those southern states where the Black population is about 45-50%.
2. Not only can the prisons make money on the labor (while paying the prisoners 15 cents an hour), but they make money on the states too. What group put up the most money to fight pot legalization in California? The Prison Workers unions. California can't afford to maintain what used to be one of the best educational systems in the world because we are maintaining one of the largest prison populations in the world. Look at what portion of California's budget is spent on prisons and you have to choice but to either laugh or weep. Almost 9 BILLION dollars next year, up about a billion from last year. Now I know a billion doesn't sound like much compared to the federal budget, but the Cali yearly budget is less than 100 billion a year, so almost 10% is prisons, and prisons just increased by 1% of the TOTAL budget.
Makes the health insurance mess the Feds are dealing with look easy...



Hillwilliam -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/10/2012 5:22:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds


It is a great voter suppression tactic, especially in those southern states where the Black population is about 45-50%.

There is no such thing. Please have a clue about the south before running your mouth about it. ty

http://ipoaa.com/us_black_population.htm



DaddySatyr -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/10/2012 5:26:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

There is no such thing. Please have a clue about the south before running your mouth about it. ty

http://ipoaa.com/us_black_population.htm


LOL DC (While technically below the Mason-Dixon wall) has the highest percentage (by over 14% of any state). I wouldn't call Washington DC "the South".



Peace and comfort,



Michael



SoftBonds -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/10/2012 6:22:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

There is no such thing. Please have a clue about the south before running your mouth about it. ty

http://ipoaa.com/us_black_population.htm


LOL DC (While technically below the Mason-Dixon wall) has the highest percentage (by over 14% of any state). I wouldn't call Washington DC "the South".



Peace and comfort,



Michael


Major edit below, didn't realize Michael was talking about the difference, not the percentage, sorry.

45% is way high, sorry...
Was trying to point out that with a fairly small portion of white/hispanic Dems, a state with a large black population could tilt Left quickly, unless of course you send a sizable portion of their population to prison...
Looks like it would take 25% of non-blacks in Mississippi voting Dem to make it a Blue state...again, if Blacks were able to vote in the same percentages as whites.



Aswad -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/10/2012 8:03:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

I do. And so would the majority of people in the US.


Glad to hear it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

I really don't see any other way to look at it but we are enslaving blacks all over again in order to make their masters (owners in the prison industrial complex) wealthy.


There's not much of a market for cotton anymore.

That said, it's a consequence, not a cause. Life outcome expectancy levels for blacks are lower than for whites in the USA, and that in turn leads to the increased rate of incarceration, both due to increased crime and increased targetting of the group, etc., in a self reinforcing system which doesn't originate with a desire to imprison or enslave blacks, but undeniably has that effect.

Health,
al-Aswad.




tweakabelle -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/11/2012 12:12:36 AM)

Leaders of South and Central American countries, many of them themselves veterans of "war against Drugs" are planning on delivering the message to Obama personally according to the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/latin-american-countries-pursue-alternatives-to-us-drug-war/2012/04/10/gIQAFPEe7S_story.html

With almost 50,000 dead in Mexico due to drug wars, and rising numbers of corpses littered across other Latin and South American countries, there is a diminishing willingness to continue paying the price for the US's obsession with cocaine and marijuana with the blood of their citizens. Leaders propose to discuss alternative approaches including legalisation and decriminalisation with the US, though no immediate change in policy is expected.

However, it looks increasingly like it's a matter of time before policy changes are forced on the US.



SoftBonds -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/11/2012 8:08:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Leaders of South and Central American countries, many of them themselves veterans of "war against Drugs" are planning on delivering the message to Obama personally according to the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/latin-american-countries-pursue-alternatives-to-us-drug-war/2012/04/10/gIQAFPEe7S_story.html

With almost 50,000 dead in Mexico due to drug wars, and rising numbers of corpses littered across other Latin and South American countries, there is a diminishing willingness to continue paying the price for the US's obsession with cocaine and marijuana with the blood of their citizens. Leaders propose to discuss alternative approaches including legalisation and decriminalisation with the US, though no immediate change in policy is expected.

However, it looks increasingly like it's a matter of time before policy changes are forced on the US.


Here is an interesting question, what does the US do if Columbia legalizes cocaine, regulates it, taxes it, and has a law on the books that they don't even pretend to enforce against exporting it?



Edwynn -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/11/2012 10:35:38 AM)


Operation Noriega II







Aswad -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/11/2012 2:15:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

However, it looks increasingly like it's a matter of time before policy changes are forced on the US.


All you really need to force the US to change its policies, is economic leverage. And Mexico is one of the main trading partners. Since the USA is the strongest supporter of global terrorism, and one of the main sources of funding for international organized crime, it is easy to justify a penalty tax on imports to offset the cost of doing business with them.

The EU has already used that approach once. Works like a charm.

Health,
al-Aswad.




TheHeretic -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/12/2012 6:36:11 AM)

Conservative columnist George Will is weighing in on the subject today. An interesting read.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/should-the-us-legalize-hard-drugs/2012/04/11/gIQAX95QBT_story.html



thishereboi -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/12/2012 6:45:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Leaders of South and Central American countries, many of them themselves veterans of "war against Drugs" are planning on delivering the message to Obama personally according to the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/latin-american-countries-pursue-alternatives-to-us-drug-war/2012/04/10/gIQAFPEe7S_story.html

With almost 50,000 dead in Mexico due to drug wars, and rising numbers of corpses littered across other Latin and South American countries, there is a diminishing willingness to continue paying the price for the US's obsession with cocaine and marijuana with the blood of their citizens. Leaders propose to discuss alternative approaches including legalisation and decriminalisation with the US, though no immediate change in policy is expected.

However, it looks increasingly like it's a matter of time before policy changes are forced on the US.



Are they going to try and change the drug policy in Australia also? You have spent a lot of time telling us in the US how we are doing things wrong. But very little about your own country. Do you think the folks down under have a better way? If so I would love to hear about it.



tweakabelle -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/12/2012 8:15:10 AM)

quote:


Are they going to try and change the drug policy in Australia also? You have spent a lot of time telling us in the US how we are doing things wrong. But very little about your own country. Do you think the folks down under have a better way? If so I would love to hear about it


If and when you ever get bored trolling you might like to check out my post #149 about the Sydney Medically Supervised Injecting Centre ( www.sydneymsic.com )

FYI, the US has always been the driving force behind international anti-drug measures and specifically the treaties prohibiting countries from adopting more benign policies. So changes in US internal policy will have effects far beyond US borders, and effectively make the treaties the US imposed on the world obsolete.



PeonForHer -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/12/2012 2:16:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Conservative columnist George Will is weighing in on the subject today. An interesting read.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/should-the-us-legalize-hard-drugs/2012/04/11/gIQAX95QBT_story.html


Another bloody anarchist in a three-piece suit. You lot should be locked up. [;)]



MrBukani -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/12/2012 4:05:07 PM)

A new best-selling book in the Netherlands reveals the country supplied all sides fighting in the First World War with grade A cocaine.

Conny Braam stumbled across the information while she was researching the Dutch cultivation of opium over the centuries, discovering the country was home to the biggest ever cocaine "factory" in Europe. Not only that, given that the Netherlands was a neutral country, it took the shrewd decision to promote the drug on both sides of the conflict, convincing all those involved that cocaine was the ultimate weapon.

http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/dutch-cocaine-ultimate-weapon



Edwynn -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/12/2012 4:36:12 PM)


Interesting that she wrote it as a historical novel rather than a non-fiction historical account.

I hope she writes a follow-up detailing all her research and including relevant documents, communications, corporate and government records, etc.

The account is not that surprising though, as cocaine was pretty common in the late nineteenth century (among other things an ingredient in Coca Cola until at least 1903) and well into the early twentieth century. It was outlawed for general use and distribution in the US in 1914 and only classified as a controlled substance in 1970.





TheHeretic -> RE: War on Drugs "killing our children" (4/12/2012 5:40:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Another bloody anarchist in a three-piece suit. You lot should be locked up. [;)]




We also have guns. Good luck with that. [:D]



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