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RE: Constitutionality of ACA - 4/5/2012 11:50:51 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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I have made that statement "Let them eat cake" many times on these boards.

Glad to see someone else gets it.

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Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Constitutionality of ACA - 4/6/2012 2:48:15 AM   
truckinslave


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Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

Oh, it will cost us three times that much after congress stuffs pork into every crack and crevice.


Softbonds starts with the assumption that 3k each is enough.
Our premie cost over half a million. That's 166 years at 3k per year.
There is not a single NICU- not one- in all of Canada that could have treated my daughter.
I had to go 90 miles; but I live in one of the poorest and less densely populated states in the country.
Thank God for American healthcare, private American insurance, and the lack, so far, of American death panels.

5 votes. That's all we need.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to xssve)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Constitutionality of ACA - 4/6/2012 6:41:35 AM   
SoftBonds


Posts: 862
Joined: 2/10/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Oh, it will cost us three times that much after congress stuffs pork into every crack and crevice.


Softbonds starts with the assumption that 3k each is enough.
Our premie cost over half a million. That's 166 years at 3k per year.
There is not a single NICU- not one- in all of Canada that could have treated my daughter.
I had to go 90 miles; but I live in one of the poorest and less densely populated states in the country.
Thank God for American healthcare, private American insurance, and the lack, so far, of American death panels.

5 votes. That's all we need.


Your assumption that the cost of the Premie has to be paid by the parents or the premie shows a lack of understanding of how insurance works.
Unless you are saying that every family will have a Premature birth?

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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Constitutionality of ACA - 4/6/2012 7:14:30 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		In Canada, about seven per cent of babies are born prematurely each year (CIHI 2004). Generally, of those, 1.5 per cent of babies are born before 32 weeks (National Statistics 2007:22) and 0.4 per cent of babies are born very early, before 28 weeks.

If you're healthy and your pregnancy is going well, it's unlikely that you'll give birth prematurely. Only about two per cent of women with normal pregnancies go into labour too early (Haas 2008).

They have Neonatal Intensive Care Units, the erronous and emotionally defective notion paraded as some sort of fact, is; of course, complete horseshit.  


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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Constitutionality of ACA - 4/6/2012 7:19:11 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		There is, though, a shortage of NICUs in Canada.

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Constitutionality of ACA - 4/6/2012 7:24:09 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		No doubt.   Look at the vast interior of the country......they got an east coast, a west coast, and a vast in between extremely underpopulated, and that vast in between is hurting, no doubt.

National healthcare is not the cause of that as the strawmen are creeping up on here.

So, yes Tim, you are correct in your statement. That does not make the canard debaters correct in their reasoning, and frankly, nothing to do with US Constitutionality whatsoever, what goes on in Canada.
(Insofar as we haven't let them into the US as a state yet, and may not ever do so in your and my lifetimes).
   

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 4/6/2012 7:25:50 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Constitutionality of ACA - 4/6/2012 7:25:43 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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Status: offline 		Wait...they were reasoning?



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 4/6/2012 7:26:24 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Constitutionality of ACA - 4/6/2012 7:53:15 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

quote:

Do you feel insurance companies should not make money for their management and their stockholders?
No, we just don't feel it should be a mandate, that puts profit ahead of the service they are supposed to provide.

And don't even pretend it's about making "a profit", they make a fucking profit, it's how much profit, i.e., margins.

And the margins in the insurance industry right now are like, surreal.


I agree margins for private insurance companies are too high at the moment. However, mutual and self insurance entities are a large part of our insurance industry and they are not by design making these profits and keeping them as (since)they are returned to the insured.

I suspect you mean profits are Ok as long as they are not crazy. Most feel four percent profit after expenses is a good target but profits are all about cost versus income except when insurance companies have a monopoly as many do. The Republican Health plan removes the reason these insurance companies make such monopolistic profits. So, if I were to agree with you I would vote Republican.

I don't really give a shit what their margins are, the point is, at the current moment, they are providing neither affordable healthcare nor quality service at those prices, which indicates that the market here in non-competitive for whatever reason.

Nor do I give a shit who you vote for, but when it comes to the pubs, no matter what they say, they invariably find a way to pad out those margins without ever increasing affordability or quality.

I mean, it's a long list here: tort reform, captive drug markets, etc., etc. - profits are the only thing they do consider, clearly, and we're talking about healthcare, the provision of which is apparently an obstacle to making a profit in the healthcare insurance industry.

That is an argument?

It's like me hiring a guy to build a house, and he wants me to pay him but objects to actually building the house because he can't make a profit if he does that.

What the fuck kind of economics is that, and in what world is that a rational argument?

If you are in the service of providing healthcare, and you cannot do that and make a profit, then get get the fuck out of that business, you're no good at it.

< Message edited by xssve -- 4/6/2012 7:59:26 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Constitutionality of ACA - 4/6/2012 8:10:39 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		In short, the business model is highly suspect here, and Kevin Phillips mentioned it way back the 80's when all those traders thrown out of work in the '87 crash moved en masse into the insurance industry.

It's a whole cohort of business people with the ethics of rabid jackals, and they're gonna milk it to the bitter end, there's no doubt of that, so any and all of their objections are predictably about keeping them in the style to which they're become accustomed, and not about the best way to provide healthcare, and at the moment, the me-me argument is becoming less and less compelling with every passing cardiac infarction.

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Constitutionality of ACA - 4/6/2012 9:08:54 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

National healthcare is not the cause of that as the strawmen are creeping up on here.


Make all the excuses for them you want.
They have socialized healthcare.
They do not have NICUs.
The latter is a direct failing of the former, and is caused by it as well.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Constitutionality of ACA - 4/6/2012 9:18:19 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

National healthcare is not the cause of that as the strawmen are creeping up on here.


Make all the excuses for them you want.
They have socialized healthcare.
They do not have NICUs.
The latter is a direct failing of the former, and is caused by it as well.


Tell all the lies you want, serves to make you all the more foolish looking,  they do have NCIUs.

Here is ONE of them:

http://www.mountsinai.on.ca/care/nicu/about-the-nicu

And you are very short of fact in cause and effect.   Again, passing a bed pan dumping test adminstered by your wife does not make you any sort of medical expert.   Certainly it does not make you a constitutional expert either.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 4/6/2012 9:19:28 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Constitutionality of ACA - 4/6/2012 9:22:28 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		5 votes. 5

And if they don't kill it Romney will.

I assure you that consider you, not myself, to be the expert dumper.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Constitutionality of ACA - 4/6/2012 9:36:46 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Romney (even in the fantasy world where the assclowns become president) would have no power to kill it.   More lack of knowledge of the US Constitution on a thread of constitutionality.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Constitutionality of ACA - 4/6/2012 11:31:00 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		He'll get the repeal thru Congress, don't worry about that.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Constitutionality of ACA - 4/6/2012 11:40:44 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		how? 2/3rds? as a private citizen? any more foundationless fantasy for the fodder?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Constitutionality of ACA - 4/6/2012 1:12:47 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

National healthcare is not the cause of that as the strawmen are creeping up on here.


Make all the excuses for them you want.
They have socialized healthcare.
They do not have NICUs.
The latter is a direct failing of the former, and is caused by it as well.


Tell all the lies you want, serves to make you all the more foolish looking,  they do have NCIUs.

Here is ONE of them:

http://www.mountsinai.on.ca/care/nicu/about-the-nicu

And you are very short of fact in cause and effect.   Again, passing a bed pan dumping test adminstered by your wife does not make you any sort of medical expert.   Certainly it does not make you a constitutional expert either.

He is as short on facts as usual
Janeway Children’s Health and Rehabilitation Centre, St John’s, Newfoundland and Labrador (board
Royal Victoria Hospital, Montreal, Quebec
Northern Alberta Neonatal Intensive Care Program, Edmonton, Alberta;
Royal University Hospital, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan;
IWK Health Centre, Halifax, Nova Scotia
Mount Sinai Hospital, Toronto,
Northern Alberta Neonatal Intensive Care Program, Royal Alexandra Hospital, Edmonton, Alberta
Red Deer Regional Hospital Centre
IWK Health Centre, Halifax
Hopital Sainte-Justine, Montreal
Children’s Hospital, Montreal
Hospital for Sick Children, Toronto
McMaster Children’s, Hamilton
Children’s Hospital of Manitoba, Winnipeg
Regina General Hospital, Regina
Royal University Hospital, Saskatoon
Alberta Children’s Hospital, Calgary
Stollery Children’s Hospital, Edmonton
BC Women’s Hospital, Vancouver
Victoria General Hospital, Victoria

All of those hospitals have NICU and there are more. Are there enough? nope, not with more and more women having preemies. But to say there are none is a blatant lie.
I have an NICU across the street from me... its not as specialised as the one in hamilton or sick kids, sunnybrook or St Josephs, But they have a damn good one. I know because Ive been there when my best friends preemie was born and that was a few years ago now.
Watch now for the change in goalposts or the ignoring of the facts with a redefinition.
I'd throw more proof out there but its like flagellating an expired equine.
Consider the source.




Attachment (1)

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Constitutionality of ACA - 4/6/2012 1:16:19 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Why are the teabaggers so desperate and hysterical?

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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Constitutionality of ACA - 4/6/2012 1:21:22 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		But there is no doubt that the neo-con catamite Scalia will vote it down, constitution or no.

Afterall, he is one of those Georgetown sluts. 

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Constitutionality of ACA - 4/6/2012 1:33:30 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		The mentality escapes me for most of them I've encountered. For that I am truly thankful.
Scalia is not fit in my estimation, but yeah I am biased.

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Constitutionality of ACA - 4/6/2012 2:18:05 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline
quote:

If you are in the service of providing healthcare, and you cannot do that and make a profit, then get get the fuck out of that business, you're no good at it.


Are we talking about insurance companies or healthcare providers? I can no longer tell. If you are talking about insurance companies then they do not provide healthcare, they pay some of the bills to prevent you from going bankrupt if you get real sick. If you are talking about healthcare providers, they are being squeezed by Goverment Medicare and Medicaid payments lower than the cost of providing healthcare, only to take money from Medicare and Medicaid and give it to Obamacare to help make that appear sustainable. That should stop now and reverse next year when Obama is fired.

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Profile   Post #: 100
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