RE: Anti-Family-Planners *DO* miss the good old Slave days...

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RE: Anti-Family-Planners *DO* miss the good old Slave d... - 4/8/2012 4:39:10 PM

farglebargle

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From: Albany, NY
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Which, of course, is the definition of chattel slavery. IF ONLY they didn't free the slaves, so ALEC could push a woman's slavery amendment. ( Maybe they could be 4/5ths a person? Would that make black women like 7/10ths or something?

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ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to SoftBonds)

Post #: 21

RE: Anti-Family-Planners *DO* miss the good old Slave d... - 4/8/2012 4:39:22 PM

searching4mysir

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

Every form of birth control has been known to fail. (The pill is about 99% effective) Both of my kids were birth control pill babies. Even though I was dirt poor when I had my first, I opted against abortion. I could never do it. But I don't want to infringe on another woman's right to not become a mother because her birth control failed.

If her birth control failed, she is already a mother because the child exists. Just because a child dies, whether by natural or intentional means, doesn't make her less of a mother.

A woman whose child dies 2 months from conception is not less of a mother than my friend Debbie whose 8 yr old son died of leukemia. It's just a difference of time.

Are you trying to say that a woman who has an abortion at 8 weeks should consider her self a mother? If she has no children?

She does have a child. A dead one.

A dead child? Wow. Thanks for clarifying for me.

My friend Debbie remains a mother, even though her child died. Why would it be any different for someone who chose to kill their child rather than carry it to term? The child in the womb is still a human being.

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)

Post #: 22

RE: Anti-Family-Planners *DO* miss the good old Slave d... - 4/8/2012 4:41:37 PM

farglebargle

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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

The child in the womb is still a human being.

Prove it.

The child in the womb is part of the mother ( science ) until she gives birth ( also science). Your crazy religious idea that things are any different is your problem. Join the rest of us in the 21st century and embrace science, and stop performing your crazy voodoo to keep away the evil spirits.

You keep away the evil spirits by washing regularly, and keeping things sanitary.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to searching4mysir)

Post #: 23

RE: Anti-Family-Planners *DO* miss the good old Slave d... - 4/8/2012 4:46:21 PM

VideoAdminGamma

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Fast reply

I will post a reminder that on emotionally charged issues there is still no excuse to violate TOS or guidelines. If you feel that you cannot keep from committing such a violation then I recommend you do not post.

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(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 24

RE: Anti-Family-Planners *DO* miss the good old Slave d... - 4/8/2012 6:05:30 PM

Truthness

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Joined: 4/8/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

The child in the womb is still a human being.

Prove it.

The child in the womb is part of the mother ( science ) until she gives birth ( also science).

The child in the womb has distinctly different DNA than the mother, making it a separate organism.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 25

RE: Anti-Family-Planners *DO* miss the good old Slave d... - 4/8/2012 6:17:49 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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If it's a different organism, it can sustain homeostasis and growth and reproduction, three essential elements of independent life, right?

And since it can't it fails the SCIENTIFIC TEST. Until it's BORN, it's not a person. It's part of the mother, and unless you consider her YOUR PROPERTY, you don't have any say about what she does. That's between her and her doctor.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 4/8/2012 6:21:14 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Truthness)

Post #: 26

RE: Anti-Family-Planners *DO* miss the good old Slave d... - 4/8/2012 6:22:29 PM

searching4mysir

Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

The child in the womb is still a human being.

Prove it.

The child in the womb is part of the mother ( science ) until she gives birth ( also science). Your crazy religious idea that things are any different is your problem. Join the rest of us in the 21st century and embrace science, and stop performing your crazy voodoo to keep away the evil spirits.

You keep away the evil spirits by washing regularly, and keeping things sanitary.

Seriously? At what point in gestation does the DNA change and become a homo sapien?

I embrace science. What I do not embrace is intentionally killing innocent human beings.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 27

RE: Anti-Family-Planners *DO* miss the good old Slave d... - 4/8/2012 6:30:54 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

At what point in gestation does the DNA change and become a homo sapien?

The test for independent life isn't when the DNA changes. It's when the organism can conduct homeostasis, growth, and reproduction on its own. Let's go with "TRADITIONAL DEFINITIONS" ( as per "Marriage" ) and just call it "Being Born"... A little syringe to clear out the nose and mouth, clamp the cord ( and don't forget to massage the blood out of the cord BEFORE the second clamp or splashy-splashy! ) cut it, and we're done. A living legally distinct person.

So, until that point, why don't you just leave things private between a patient and her doctor, ok?

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 4/8/2012 6:33:08 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to searching4mysir)

Post #: 28

RE: Anti-Family-Planners *DO* miss the good old Slave d... - 4/8/2012 6:35:33 PM

Kirata

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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

The test for independent life isn't when the DNA changes. It's when the organism can conduct homeostasis, growth, and reproduction on its own.

That would make it an independent human life around age 12 or so.

K.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 29

RE: Anti-Family-Planners *DO* miss the good old Slave d... - 4/8/2012 6:38:15 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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Well, if you know that CELLULAR reproduction is a KIND OF reproduction and then it makes total sense.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 30

RE: Anti-Family-Planners *DO* miss the good old Slave d... - 4/8/2012 6:39:32 PM

Kirata

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Joined: 2/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Well, if you know that CELLULAR reproduction is a KIND OF reproduction and then it makes total sense.

That would make it an independent human life from day one.

K.

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 31

RE: Anti-Family-Planners *DO* miss the good old Slave d... - 4/8/2012 6:41:54 PM

searching4mysir

Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline

FR

Define "Independent life". I know several 30 yr old men who don't live independently because they still live with their mothers. Can their mothers kill them?

Man is meant to live communally. It is how we survived, evolutionarily speaking. No one is TRULY independent.

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 32

RE: Anti-Family-Planners *DO* miss the good old Slave d... - 4/8/2012 6:46:38 PM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
As I said before, I have provided financial planning to someone who screwed up his finances, I don't see how after-a-goof family planning is any less planning.

What you do is called "Financial Planning". I get that. Just because you also provide services that help your clients fix their fuck-ups doesn't mean that they planned for it (other than engaging your services).

Would you call a bankruptcy financial planning ? Fuck no. I'm sure you've helped a client or two with that? If you consider that "planning ", please remind me never to employ your services. I understand it's a service you provide but it is not something where one says: "Yep. I'm going to graduate from my master's program in 2013 and by 2016, I'll need a bankruptcy to be able to get that house"

I am not denying that when it comes to your work, you consider cleaning up after your clients' mistakes "planning" but, if it happens after-the-fact, it's "damage control".

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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Post #: 33

RE: Anti-Family-Planners *DO* miss the good old Slave d... - 4/8/2012 6:47:07 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

Define "Independent life".

Exactly.

K.

(in reply to searching4mysir)

Post #: 34

RE: Anti-Family-Planners *DO* miss the good old Slave d... - 4/8/2012 7:03:18 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Well, if you know that CELLULAR reproduction is a KIND OF reproduction and then it makes total sense.

That would make it an independent human life from day one.

K.

Nope. Can't maintain homeostasis. Remember, there are THREE criteria.

And again, it needs to do this WITHOUT the umbilical cord hooked up.

Again, let's just call it "Birth", give out a long-form certificate making it official, and call it an early night?

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 4/8/2012 7:05:40 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 35

RE: Anti-Family-Planners *DO* miss the good old Slave d... - 4/8/2012 7:04:36 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

FR

Define "Independent life". I know several 30 yr old men who don't live independently because they still live with their mothers. Can their mothers kill them?

Man is meant to live communally. It is how we survived, evolutionarily speaking. No one is TRULY independent.

Someone elses uterus isn't your property, despite your "communal" beliefs.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to searching4mysir)

Post #: 36

RE: Anti-Family-Planners *DO* miss the good old Slave d... - 4/8/2012 7:06:32 PM

searching4mysir

Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

FR

Define "Independent life". I know several 30 yr old men who don't live independently because they still live with their mothers. Can their mothers kill them?

Man is meant to live communally. It is how we survived, evolutionarily speaking. No one is TRULY independent.

Someone elses uterus isn't your property, despite your "communal" beliefs.

And the contents of that uterus are not hers either. It is a unique human life. Scientifically speaking of course. Her right to convenience does not trump that unborn human's right to life.

And I notice that you didn't bother to define "independent life". Since that is the crux of your argument, you would think you would be able to define it objectively. After all, if the definition is merely subjective, you could very easily be defined as a "nonindependent life" and someone would have the right to kill you.

< Message edited by searching4mysir -- 4/8/2012 7:08:31 PM >

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 37

RE: Anti-Family-Planners *DO* miss the good old Slave d... - 4/8/2012 7:17:43 PM

xssve

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Joined: 10/10/2009
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Oh yeah it is, and always has been, that's the burden of being born female, it' s no different than any other mammal.

If you fucking hypocrites acted like any other human life but yours and some anonymous blasocyst had even an ounce of value, we could at least give you credit for compassion, but it's clear this is just another excuse to act sanctimonious about ruining peoples lives.

It's not belief, it's politics - tell me the name of one fucking Iraqi or Afghani killed by us in the last 10 years: you got 15 seconds.

How many of those people have been children? You can take your time on that one.

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Post #: 38

RE: Anti-Family-Planners *DO* miss the good old Slave d... - 4/8/2012 7:18:00 PM

SoftBonds

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Joined: 2/10/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

FR

Define "Independent life". I know several 30 yr old men who don't live independently because they still live with their mothers. Can their mothers kill them?

Man is meant to live communally. It is how we survived, evolutionarily speaking. No one is TRULY independent.

I would say that not only should they have that right, but they should be encouraged to do so. If you have raised a 30 year old male that can't be independent, you have a failed life form on your hands...
But I'm in a bratty mood today, so take my words with a grain of salt I guess...

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(in reply to searching4mysir)

Post #: 39

RE: Anti-Family-Planners *DO* miss the good old Slave d... - 4/8/2012 7:21:57 PM

SoftBonds

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Joined: 2/10/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

Oh yeah it is, and always has been, that's the burden of being born female, it' s no different than any other mammal.

If you fucking hypocrites acted like any other human life but yours and some anonymous blasocyst had even an ounce of value, we could at least give you credit for compassion, but it's clear this is just another excuse to act sanctimonious about ruining peoples lives.

It's not belief, it's politics - tell me the name of one fucking Iraqi or Afghani killed by us in the last 10 years: you got 15 seconds.

How many of those people have been children? You can take your time on that one.

Saddam-nope, killed by the Iraqis
Osama-nope, not Afghani, he is Saudi.
OK, you stumped me xssve...
How many were children? Too many-easy question.

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Post #: 40

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