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No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. - 4/10/2012 3:56:25 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		Suspended 5 games and vilified for exercising his constitutional rights.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/marlins-ozzie-guillen-apologizes-over-222344775--mlb.html;_ylt=An9rxVlRHnfN0uj8MclrcHMRvLYF

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RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. - 4/10/2012 4:08:15 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		And so are the fans by demanding his firing...What you say may not be enough to put you in jail but it can cost you your job... There is no job guarantee in the constitution...There can always be negative consequences when we open our mouths.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 4/10/2012 4:09:45 PM >

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RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. - 4/10/2012 4:13:46 PM   
searching4mysir


Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline 		FR

Freedom of speech doesn't necessarily mean freedom of consequences.

Privately held companies CAN limit the speech of their employees without breaking the law, particularly if said speech can affect the income of others. If the fans say "I refuse to finance X person running their mouth so I'm not going to pay for tickets, advertising, paraphernalia, etc.) then the owners of the teams have a fiduciary responsibility to the others owners/shareholders.

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RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. - 4/10/2012 4:15:24 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		I heard what Guillen said and I didn't find it all that offensive but, then again, I'm not a Cuban immigrant.

Like it or not, the constitution only protects us from actions by the state. Guillen's suspension was a choice by a corporation that has to do business in the largest Cuban community outside of Cuba. It was a business decision.

I don't agree with the decision but, as I mentioned, earlier; I wasn't offended.

Guillen seemed to be sincere when he apologized about the incident. he said he's been having trouble sleeping at night. Whether that's because he feels he said the wrong thing or he feels like he angered the Cuban community wasn't clear but, it sounded to me like he's "okay" with the suspension.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. - 4/10/2012 4:36:01 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		He might want to invest in a remote starter for his car.

http://www.salon.com/2012/04/10/guillens_pro_castro_candor/singleton/

" In 1975 a Cuban American man was murdered after advocating closer relations with Castro’s Cuba. In 1978, an anti-Castro talk radio host had his legs blown off by a car bomb because he dared criticize his fellow exiles for resorting to violence. In 1983, the Little Havana branch of a Miami bank was bombed because one of its executives had negotiated with the Castro government for the release of 3,600 political prisoners. In 1998, a bomb threat emptied a concert hall during a performance by Compay Segundo, a 91-year-old musician made famous by the movie “The Buena Vista Social Club.” All told, Mullin found more than 40 instances of bomb threats and explosions directed at people who had somehow offended the anti-Castro orthodoxy."

Those people are fucking crazy.

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RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. - 4/10/2012 6:08:12 PM   
SoftBonds


Posts: 862
Joined: 2/10/2012
Status: offline 		How come there are not a bunch of folks here to defend his speech like they defended Rushie's?
Wait a sec, isn't the Cuban-American population one of the most reliable Republican groups? Please tell me that boycotts are OK when it is planned parenthood (and the girl scouts) or a guy who says Castro is OK, but not when it is Rush or another republican getting hurt...

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RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. - 4/10/2012 6:14:53 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		I'm pretty sure I defended his right to free speech. As I said; Ozzie seemed to be accepting of the suspension (from the clip I heard on the sports' radio). I highly doubt he will lose his job but, I would think it was a shame, if he did.

Please also remember that I said if Rush lost his job as a result of advertisers bailing, he deserved what he got. I didn't think that would have been right, either but I have been consistent, in both cases.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. - 4/10/2012 6:29:36 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

for exercising his constitutional rights.

Not at all.

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RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. - 4/10/2012 6:51:04 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

for exercising his constitutional rights.

Not at all.

Ozzie has a constitutional right to be an asshole ?
Ho holds a very public job,he ticked off a large contingent of his clubs fans.....take a few days off.
I would say he got off easy.

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RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. - 4/10/2012 7:05:31 PM   
MusicalBoredom


Posts: 620
Joined: 5/8/2007
From: Louisiana/New York
Status: offline 		Our "freedom on speech" that we talk so much about is about the government not trying to restrict our ideas and speech. With Rush it was the consumers that said they didn't like what was said. The consumers and the advertisers make decisions about what they want which not a "freedom" issue. Companies (or sports teams) are free to make their own rules. For example in my city people are free to express their ideas publicly however, if someone stands in my front yard and yells obscenities at my kids I'm going to put an end to it.

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RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. - 4/10/2012 7:16:25 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

for exercising his constitutional rights.

Not at all.

Ozzie has a constitutional right to be an asshole ?
Ho holds a very public job,he ticked off a large contingent of his clubs fans.....take a few days off.
I would say he got off easy.

What are you talking about?

The OP claims constitutional rights were violated. They weren't.


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RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. - 4/10/2012 7:23:55 PM   
searching4mysir


Posts: 2757
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

How come there are not a bunch of folks here to defend his speech like they defended Rushie's?
Wait a sec, isn't the Cuban-American population one of the most reliable Republican groups? Please tell me that boycotts are OK when it is planned parenthood (and the girl scouts) or a guy who says Castro is OK, but not when it is Rush or another republican getting hurt...


If customers told their advertisers that they were going to boycott their products because they spent advertising dollars on placement during Rush's show, and the networks then cancelled Rush because of the advertisers threatening to pull the ads, I would have no problem with that. That's private enterprise/free market acting. That is very different from government censorship.

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RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. - 4/10/2012 7:53:09 PM   
SoftBonds


Posts: 862
Joined: 2/10/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I'm pretty sure I defended his right to free speech. As I said; Ozzie seemed to be accepting of the suspension (from the clip I heard on the sports' radio). I highly doubt he will lose his job but, I would think it was a shame, if he did.

Please also remember that I said if Rush lost his job as a result of advertisers bailing, he deserved what he got. I didn't think that would have been right, either but I have been consistent, in both cases.



Peace and comfort,



Michael


I fully agree Michael, we frequently do disagree, but I almost always can respect your opinion and point of view. If I'm putting off some snark it isn't aimed at you-though there are folks on the boards that my comment does apply to... haven't seen them on this thread...

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RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. - 4/11/2012 7:36:38 AM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline 		The distinction between government censorship and public opprobrium that others have noted is pertinent. Still, I think people tend to go too far in some case in demanding that people be fired for things they said. Just proclaim the guy an asshole (and he is an asshole if he thinks there is anything admirable about a murdering, torturing, dictator) and leave it at that.

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RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. - 4/11/2012 8:10:14 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		There`s been a sort of time capsule with many Cuban Americans,very much like the car fleet in Cuba,still stuck in the 50s..


Many are going to have a huge disappointment when they aren`t welcomed back to Cuba as heroes.......on their way back to reclaiming their long lost property(s).


I truly doubt anyone will get back what they lost.Some will......maybe.

The Cuban Americans aren`t going to be running anything or have much of a say,even with friendly Cubans, in anything that happens in Cuba.The average Cuban doesn`t have the same level of personal vendettas that SOME Cuban Americans have.



There is going to be a lot of partying tho.....and lotta lotta families reunited and new relationships started.New businesses and legal Cuban cigars.I for one plan to sail there and explore the coast.



This would have happened twenty, thirty years ago if not for this small group of very spiteful and vindictive Cuban Americans keeping it from happening.Sooner or later,they`re going to have to get over themselves and move on,like everyone else has.


It will also single the end of one of most exploited and malicious political footballs in world history.


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 4/11/2012 8:12:14 AM >

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RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. - 4/11/2012 8:44:08 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

The distinction between government censorship and public opprobrium that others have noted is pertinent. Still, I think people tend to go too far in some case in demanding that people be fired for things they said. Just proclaim the guy an asshole (and he is an asshole if he thinks there is anything admirable about a murdering, torturing, dictator) and leave it at that.

If you represented my business, and acted like an asshole publicly, you'd be fired that day.

A business decision, not a free speech statement.

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RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. - 4/11/2012 9:36:44 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		That's bullshit, what kind of a value system is that? what values does it represent?

Oh right, money talks.

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RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. - 4/11/2012 9:49:07 AM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

That's bullshit, what kind of a value system is that? what values does it represent?

Oh right, money talks.

Huh?

You represent my business, and I have no say in how you do that?

THAT'S bullshit.

You don't fit into those values, work somewhere else where you're a better fit.

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RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. - 4/11/2012 11:08:31 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

How come there are not a bunch of folks here to defend his speech like they defended Rushie's?
Wait a sec, isn't the Cuban-American population one of the most reliable Republican groups? Please tell me that boycotts are OK when it is planned parenthood (and the girl scouts) or a guy who says Castro is OK, but not when it is Rush or another republican getting hurt...


I don't know about others but I was just stating a fact of life...not pushing a political position. It makes no difference which side of a political debate a person’s comments fall. They do have a right to free speech but they also have to take responsibility and deal with the consequences of their words.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: No freedom of speech if it pisses someone off. - 4/11/2012 11:43:21 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

That's bullshit, what kind of a value system is that? what values does it represent?

Oh right, money talks.

Huh?

You represent my business, and I have no say in how you do that?

THAT'S bullshit.

You don't fit into those values, work somewhere else where you're a better fit.

If you want to tell me what to do when I'm off the clock, then you can damn well pay me for it, otherwise, when the whistle blows, you can go fuck yourself.

I'm guessing you can't pay me that much.

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