quote:

With 1 in 100 American adults behind bars, falling crime rates and a cash-strapped economy, the United States would seem ripe for the kinds of national reforms that might keep people out of prison. Recent polls have shown that even our law-and-order-minded citizenry would rather see penalties eased for certain criminals than pay more money to keep them locked up.

A smattering of states, blue and red alike, have taken tentative steps to reduce their prison populations. Yet overall, the incarceration rate remains flat even as crime levels decrease and budget deficits grow. And on the federal level, the numbers of prisoners just keep growing; Congress, meanwhile, can't even manage to pass a bill to study criminal justice reforms, much less make them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve
Recent polls have shown that even our law-and-order-minded citizenry would rather see penalties eased for certain criminals than pay more money to keep them locked up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

So, the question becomes: when does cooperation and collaboration stop, and collectivism start? Presumably after, for instance, the founding fathers of the USA got together to draw up a constitution that applied to all the states, and after the form of currency was unified?

Well I don't know... the Constitution was specifically designed to limit the powers of the Federal government, not to establish centralized social and economic controls. From a Collectivist point of view, that's it's greatest failing.

K.

quote:

The stronger corporations become, the less you have of individualism or collectivism.

quote:

This case study provides a detailed example of the financial kickback machinery that makes the process go. It works something like this. A group of executives and investors start a company. Rather than build a business the old fashioned way, company profits are pumped up with government legislation, contracts, regulation, financing, subsidies and/or enforcement. This dramatically increases the value of the company's financial equity. The company and its initial investors then sell their stock at a profit. Such profits replenish contributions made to the kind of politicians who can arrange such government benefits. Such profits also fund philanthropy to foundations and universities that have large endowments that invest along side the investors. These tax-exempt organizations provide graduates to staff positions in the game, intellectual justification to attract popular support and photo opportunities which bestow legitimacy and social stature. Personnel cycle through the management and boards of business, government and academia, as the real economy declines — the environment deteriorates, productivity falls, income and infrastructure decline — and government deficits grow.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

If collectivism is defined as some form of "centralized social and economic control" then it's pretty clear that all civilisations are collectivist to one extent or another.

I think you're heading down the rabbit hole here. Relativising succeeds only in rendering terms meaningless. By similar logic, a society where the people are only permitted to vote for candidates hand-selected by a totalitarian regime that exercises complete social and economic control over their lives could be said to be a "democratic society" to some extent. That's just doublespeak.

K.