quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Tricky for a kid who's stuck in a wheelchair, I'd have thought.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Or we could try to raise our kids to respect others.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko
On the one hand, I can't help but agree. Many of us grew up handling hard times during school and with friends just like everyone else and came out relatively unscathed. We think.

The anti-bullying campaign is really not as "lame" as it appears on the surface. If a student feels bullied, pressured, scared,...his ability to receive the same education as the other students are recieving is impaired. We allow for individual education plans and 504 plans for students who need special accomodations for instruction. If a student has a broken leg, they cannot participate in physical activities in gym so we allow them to do benchwork. If a student has an adverse reaction to stimuli, we modify their instructional delivery.

Well, being bullied is not a disability and it doesn't qualify for a 504 plan. (And I'm not suggesting it should.) However, being bullied does, indeed, result in some very real defecits in a student's ability to concentrate and learn. While it's not the school's responsibility to be sure a child has only positive relationships with all of his peers, it is the school's responsibility to be sure each child has access to the same educational opportunities. Therefore, it is the school's responsibility to provide a safe learning environment for all students.

The only way to provide this safe environment for all, short of modifying instructional delivery which we already know we cannot do, is bullying prevention. This has come to light only in the past few years, yes. Just because it's new doesn't mean it's coddling. We are more aware now of the adverse affects on a child's education that bullying can have. (A very basic example - if a child is too scared to come to school, he is not receiving his education. At all.)

It took me awhile to wrap my head around this, I admit. But now I look back and I wonder...if all of us who did experience some sort of bullying or harassment could remove those experiences, would our educational history and achievements be different?

quote:

ORIGINAL: PatrickG38
Teaching violence as the answer for violence usually leads to guess what?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

Not a punch thrown, no violence at all. Just a short conversation where he learned I wasn't afraid of him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: PatrickG38
Teaching violence as the answer for violence usually leads to guess what?

It doesn't have to be violence. But that's what the tree-huggers would have you believe. You can stand up to yourself with words first. Then, if the bully escalates things -- knock the shit out of him.

When I was bullied, it began with words. So I fought back with words. When the bully decided to take a swing...I swung back twice as hard. It got to the point eventually where one day at the bus stop, this asshole said "Do you think I should kick your ass?" And I just said "No." He asked why not and I just replied "Because I'll kick back." And that was the end of the "confrontation." Not a punch thrown, no violence at all. Just a short conversation where he learned I wasn't afraid of him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PatrickG38
Teaching violence as the answer for violence usually leads to guess what?

quote:

No. Columbine was the result of two pussy nutjobs who thought that guns were the answer -- in other words, you're partly right. No one taught them how to stand up to bullies, so they used guns because they were too afraid to stand up for themselves otherwise.

quote:

When I was in middle school I had *no one*. I was picked on routinely until someone pushed me too far. A few bruised jaws and a weight-lifting class later -- no one fucked with me anymore.

I'm not saying I was a badass or anything. But when word starts to spread that the spindly lil' nerd was seen in gym class bench-pressing more than his own body weight....people decided I was no longer the one to fuck with.

quote:

I don't know much about lawsuits and the like (thank goodness) but I have a hard time reconciling an award like that when the intent wasn't there. The boy who did the punching didn't do it with intent to put the other in a wheelchair. The knowledge was not even there, I'm sure, that it could happen. Seems to really be kind of a rare event, given the number of punches to the stomach that happen that don't result in paralysis.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Or we could try to raise our kids to respect others.

LoL. Yeah...that'll work. While you're at it...go on and teach them that abstinence works best too. Ooops.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
I think some kids are unable to ,or afraid to stand up for themselves.

That's my point. We need to teach our kids that if they are being bullied they need to take a stand. Taking a stand doesn't mean you won't get hurt. It means you're showing the bully you aren't going to be an easy target. And you're right up to a point but with some kids it's not that simple. It would really depend on the tenacity of the bullied kid, his environment, his parents and other specifics.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
The anti-bullying campaign may be lame, I don't know but if it helps I'm all for it.

It won't. It will only do what we've already started doing -- teaching our kids that if they cry, we'll make things all better for them. No red-pen grading because it hurts their feelings; everyone gets a trophy; and no one ges bullied and forced to stand up for themselves. These kids are in for a rude awakening in the real world. You're right again but again only up to a point. Teaching the bullied kids to fight just won't work with all kids, especially the smaller weaker ones. If at all possible, the schools need to put a stop to the bullies. I agree that No red-pen grading and everyone gets a trophy is stupid but it doesn't have much to do with the topic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
Bullying is criminal.

That's a stretch. Maybe but if it's adult vs adult it's definitely criminal. What's the difference if it's kid vs kid ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin
If an adult bullies another adult it could be grounds to "stand your ground" if you know what I mean.

Which means they are standing up for themselves, not being an easy target and hiding, waiting for the overworked police to save the day. That was a veiled attempt by me to imply if an adult bullies another adult, the bullied adult may have grounds to blow the bully away. That should give the police some extra work.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

Maybe we should stop coddling our kids and teach them life is hard and that sometimes they're going to hve to stand up for themselves.

Ender Wiggin successfully stood up to bullies.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


Why dont we just strap a side arm to every kid who goes to school and let the chips fall where they may?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Tricky for a kid who's stuck in a wheelchair, I'd have thought.

Trickier still is finding more than one instance of that type of freak injury.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

Maybe we should stop coddling our kids and teach them life is hard and that sometimes they're going to hve to stand up for themselves.

Ender Wiggin successfully stood up to bullies.

Who is Ender Wiggin ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

Maybe we should stop coddling our kids and teach them life is hard and that sometimes they're going to hve to stand up for themselves.

Ender Wiggin successfully stood up to bullies.

Who is Ender Wiggin ?

A fictional character in a science fiction novel by a mormon who had the author on his side.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I would also add that this was not a verdict against the bully but the school. They should have known the possible physical effects of bullies.

Youngman found that there had been at least three separate reports, one involving police, of the other student violently bullying his classmates, but the school didn't keep any paperwork documenting investigations or any documents showing disciplinary actions.

The school knew the violent tendencies of this student and did nothing.

quote:

This occurred six years ago, before the current bullying prevention laws came into effect and so, was likely handled similarly, and not unlawfully, as other discipline events were.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

Why is 4.2 million dollars punitive for this severe of an injury, even by your justification? This is a teenager who will be in a wheelchair for the rest of his life. I have a partner with a spinal injury. He constantly suffers from pressure sores, that have on occasion reached the bone. He has bladder infections twice a month that he cannot detect, so it often reaches his kidneys. He had one kid, then became sterile. His wife has to insert a catheter twice a day for him to urinate. He has to wear diapers and a urine bag. He requires nonstop assistance. How much would you have to be paid to live like that for 30-40 years? Oh yes, his life expectancy is much shorter than a normal person, also. Calling that lucky is one of the more ignorant things I have heard anyone say.

Criminal negligence charges against the school? It is a municipal corporation, and i doubt any one person was culpable enough to go to jail. They would have have paid a fine to the state, at most. Personally, I would rather see this poor bastard get the money.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


I am not sanguine about the way these cases are approached. In my view, an award of damages in the amount of the victim's medical treatment and psychological recovery costs suffices for the civil component of redress. The punitive component should be manifest in criminal negligence charges, not a winning lottery ticket for the "lucky" victim and his family.

K.

I don't know much about lawsuits and the like (thank goodness) but I have a hard time reconciling an award like that when the intent wasn't there. The boy who did the punching didn't do it with intent to put the other in a wheelchair. The knowledge was not even there, I'm sure, that it could happen. Seems to really be kind of a rare event, given the number of punches to the stomach that happen that don't result in paralysis.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

This occurred six years ago, before the current bullying prevention laws came into effect and so, was likely handled similarly, and not unlawfully, as other discipline events were.

6 years ago would have been.... 2006. ( yay! I can do math!)

2002 was NJ's first anti-bullying law...

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2002/Bills/PL02/83_.HTM

In particular this part...

C.18A:37-15 Adoption of policy by each school district.

Now, just seems to me that if the police were called in on one incident of violance, why was there no record?

I cannot, in all good conscious, dismiss the fact that the school district was not negligent in some aspect, especially considering the law.