Dominants to be leaders, teachers?

Dominants to be leaders, teachers? (Full Version)

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Lockit -> Dominants to be leaders, teachers? (4/27/2012 3:29:11 PM)
Okay, it may be no secret, why I am posting this, but because of what was said on another thread, I wondered how many believed that dominants were to be leaders and teachers in the 'community' at large. Personally, I don't believe that one must be a leader or teacher within a 'community' to be a dominant. I do believe that when we put ourselves out there as a teacher or leader to a large group of strangers and hold this self appointed position or think we do... you have a lot of room for right way and wrong way, egos, misinformation and on and on. I would also expect that you better be ready to be accountable. There are a lot of people that share their knowledge, but don't take up a position unless others place them in one, of a leader or teacher. They would be the first from what I have seen to dispel any title someone gave them, but wouldn't mind so much if people respected them because of their knowledge or sharing of what they knew. So it was basically implied that dominants should be leading and teaching the new people from I guess some position of authority. If they didn't, they were not real dominants. What say you?

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Dominants to be leaders, teachers? (4/27/2012 3:39:22 PM)
Hello, lovely! I've been going to some London rope events recently, and the thing about them is that they're all peer-based learning. People teach each other. Some of those people are dominant, some of them are submissive, some are neither, some of them are one or the other depending on what day of the week it is. All teach, all learn. The ones who do more learning than teaching aren't any less dominant than the ones leading impromptu workshops with ten people sitting around them copying them. They (we, lol) just...know less about rope. Gimme a fistful of hair and a soft enough landing place and I'll show you who's dominant, though! :p :p :p

ResidentSadist -> RE: Dominants to be leaders, teachers? (4/27/2012 3:42:23 PM)
That right there is some very, very old school shit . . . the credo was that leather was underground, so underground you needed to know the password to get into clubs etc. In the interest of its own growth and fresh meat, Dominants were expected to help guide submissives into the society. Whether by introductions (hence learning passwords), referrals, reading material or personal instruction. If you wasted a submissive by not guiding them, you were counter productive to society and not one of the brothers bringing fresh meet home for your other brothers. Many old school leather society figures maintain this credo but it manifests in a different form now that leather is public. Some are spokesmen/women, some give demos, write books and some old farts just fuck around on forums like this answering questions. All is all, it is in the spirit educating and inviting newcomers into our leather world. Same credo, different age. You don't get your cap for being turd. But you don't have to have a cap to be a "Dom" either.

Lockit -> RE: Dominants to be leaders, teachers? (4/27/2012 3:44:17 PM)
ROFL! Hello even Lovelier! Did I mention I cut all my hair off? I am soft though! [;)] Some of the best teachers I know are submissive! I've learned a thing or two from some of the best!

Lockit -> RE: Dominants to be leaders, teachers? (4/27/2012 3:46:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist That right there is some very, very old school shit . . . the credo was that leather was underground, so underground you needed to know the password to get into clubs etc. In the interest of its own growth and fresh meat, Dominants were expected to help guide submissives into the society. Whether by introductions (hence learning passwords), referrals, reading material or personal instruction. If you wasted a submissive by not guiding them, you were counter productive to society and not one of the brothers bringing fresh meet home for your other brothers. Many old school leather society figures maintain this credo but it manifests in a different form now that leather is public. Some are spokesmen/women, some give demos, write books and some old farts just fuck around on forums like this answering questions. All is all, it is in the spirit educating and inviting newcomers into our leather world. Same credo, different age. You don't get your cap for being turd. But you don't have to have a cap to be a "Dom" either. Thank you Resident Sadist! I don't mind some old school and agree with a lot of it, but sometimes people can take it a bit far and kind of stretch it into something it was never meant to be.

Focus50 -> RE: Dominants to be leaders, teachers? (4/27/2012 4:12:42 PM)
I lead and take charge in my personal relationships. Communities will take care of themselves, with or without me.... I'm not out to teach just anyone, just as I don't subscribe to that Dom = alpha male, nonsense. But ok, I freely share my knowledge and experience within a bdsm community, be it munch or boards such as CM. But that's sharing rather than leading or teaching. Besides, there's probably more subs than Dom/mes posting, anyways.... When I do lead and teach from a position of authority, it's solely as Dom to my sub. Focus.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Dominants to be leaders, teachers? (4/27/2012 4:14:07 PM)
I am formerly old school. I've given a lot back in the name of those that taught me. I am DONE. I will help if I'm asked, offer advices and opinions, but "lead". Thanks, I washed the target off my back. We all have things to teach and learn. I'm not going to ignore wisdom just because it comes from a submissive, nor do i think being a top confers any special knowledge. It's just what i am.

Awareness -> RE: Dominants to be leaders, teachers? (4/27/2012 4:17:59 PM)
No, I think it's nonsense. If I can dip into absolutism here (Yes, I know, how unlike me), an advantageous dominant mindset is one which consists of strength, purpose, will and a good dose of wisdom. This tends to create an individual with the desire to take a leadership role and make decisions tempered with insight. This is a set of attributes which strikes me as having a reasonable chance of successfully managing an interpersonal interaction which contains components of power exchange. However, I'm rather scornful of the concept of dominance as a learned attribute or something which can be 'taught'. To a certain extent, you can rip away social programming to allow the truly dominant personality to flourish, but if the fundamentals aren't there, they're not there. Now, of course, much of those things being taught in this realm are skills or techniques related to specific activities - rope skills or safety protocols being an example. In that sense, it's those with experience who can teach these things and you can posit it's more likely to be those who are actively topping and using those skills, but ultimately that's irrelevant. Actively taking a leadership role in a community always implies politics. So your leaders will inevitably turn out to be the best political animals - which doesn't always strike me as a prime set of attributes for a mentor to possess. However such people are pretty damn important for entirely different reasons. The only real requirement the community or scene has as a whole is a certain amount of self-policing. Without community-established standards which recognise and enforce the legalities of the societies in which everyone lives, the community itself may find itself subject to legislative or civil action which would effectively bury it or drive practitioners underground. While Western society is fairly permissive in several senses - political correctness notwithstanding - it wouldn't take much in the way of a social movement to see much of WIITWD fall under sanction. And let's not mention that the very notion of submissive women tends to drive feminists into an apoplectic frenzy which sees them frothing at the mouth. In short, the big things to worry about are the scene's legislative position and social reputation relative to the societies in which it resides. And what that means dear friends is that the scene requires leaders prepared to play politics with the rest of society. Because if that doesn't happen, then it's entirely possible, you'll see the practices you enjoy today being outlawed tomorrow. (Or weighed down with so much in the way of legal liability, they become a practical impossibility.) Don't laugh. The movement of social mores is like a pendulum. There's every chance it may swing back to a less permissive society within your lifetime.

Lockit -> RE: Dominants to be leaders, teachers? (4/27/2012 4:25:56 PM)
I'm loving the different answers and thank you for your thoughts on this Awareness.

ResidentSadist -> RE: Dominants to be leaders, teachers? (4/27/2012 4:40:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist That right there is some very, very old school shit . . . the credo was that leather was underground, so underground you needed to know the password to get into clubs etc. In the interest of its own growth and fresh meat, Dominants were expected to help guide submissives into the society. Whether by introductions (hence learning passwords), referrals, reading material or personal instruction. If you wasted a submissive by not guiding them, you were counter productive to society and not one of the brothers bringing fresh meet home for your other brothers. Many old school leather society figures maintain this credo but it manifests in a different form now that leather is public. Some are spokesmen/women, some give demos, write books and some old farts just fuck around on forums like this answering questions. All is all, it is in the spirit educating and inviting newcomers into our leather world. Same credo, different age. You don't get your cap for being turd. But you don't have to have a cap to be a "Dom" either. Thank you Resident Sadist! I don't mind some old school and agree with a lot of it, but sometimes people can take it a bit far and kind of stretch it into something it was never meant to be. Come mothers and fathers Throughout the land And don't criticize What you can't understand Your sons and your daughters Are beyond your command Your old road is Rapidly agin'. Please get out of the new one If you can't lend your hand For the times they are a-changin'. ~ Dylan I am as Old Guard as you can get w/o being 90 years old and gay. But even I know, the times are changing. I wish Dom's had to do something for our society, get a cap and earn the right to pick from the submissives people like me helped usher into the fold. How dare some asshole tap the stock I helped build when he has done NOTHING for anyone, nor helped build up that stock or make the community a better place and more attractive to fresh meat. I spent 35 years (71-2006) supporting the community, giving interviews, financially sponsoring public dungeon parties/munches/special interest groups, hosting & building websites etc. In 2006, I sorta' quit for minute. It would be 40 years if you count the crap I post on CM, but I don't count it because it costs me nothing out of pocket and I free to do it or not do it as I please. It is no skin off my back, something I do at my leisure not something I sacrifice for the community. In 2007 I moved to Daytona Beach and was extremely disappointed. I met a bunch of Castle Realm fucktards that couldn't give a decent munch or party if their romanitic-CastleRealm eductaed-hetrosexually biased-internet educated-no-real-life-experience-frightened-little-fluffy-bunny-D/s hearts tried. I stayed quit... but I supported Slapp etc by buying tickets and occasionally attending leather society conventions far away from Daytona. The point is.. you are right. I hate that you are right. I hate that leather has lost its underground foothold, lost its sense of communion, sense of brotherhood and all these socially posing, politically correct assholes that wouldn't know BDSM if you shoved a nightstick up their ass go from posting "all I know is when I see "pig" in the profile, I move on knowing its not for me" . . . to showing up at the local munches and pollute a society that invented "pigs" in the first place and for damn good reason. I love that you are right Lockit. I even love all the clean prissy pig haters on these forums. I love the "educational hetro D/s only" group munches they have in Daytona Beach. I just hate that my old fashioned disciplined world of leather is the Old Road, it's aging and being pushed aside. I hope the new road brings us something with some heart.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Dominants to be leaders, teachers? (4/27/2012 4:51:56 PM)
That's very well said, ResidentSadist. I hope there is some heart in the new whatever-it-is, too.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Dominants to be leaders, teachers? (4/27/2012 4:55:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist I met a bunch of Castle Realm fucktards that couldn't give a decent munch or party if their romanitic-CastleRealm eductaed-hetrosexually biased-internet educated-no-real-life-experience-frightened-little-fluffy-bunny-D/s hearts tried. I love you, Mr Sadist. Even if I'm probably symptomatic of what you're mourning - the loss of all that underground structure, the way we slip in and out all equal and easy-like, the way nobody owes a thing to each other. That's the reality of my community as is, compared to how yours was, and I'm not convinced that it's necessarily a bad thing. But fuck, you've got a way with words. :p

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Dominants to be leaders, teachers? (4/27/2012 5:01:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 I hope there is some heart in the new whatever-it-is, too. There is. There's an equality, an open-ness. Peer-based learning. You don't get the cold shoulder if you don't know somebody who knows somebody, and it's ok if you don't quite fit whatever molds we've got handy. I keep thinking back to that Chicago mess that got splashed all over Fetlife - the community elder, sitting on community boards and funding community spaces and events, abusing partners, bringing underaged girls to events, and that being ok because of who he was. I'd like to think there's less space for that under the new model. (I may be being idealistic.)

DreamyLadySnow -> RE: Dominants to be leaders, teachers? (4/27/2012 5:05:53 PM)
I'd prefer that people taught because of their skill, knowledge and ability to teach, rather than because they use the term dom/me to describe themselves. Just my two cents. That said, I think both tops and bottoms can contribute to training and should be welcome to do so.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Dominants to be leaders, teachers? (4/27/2012 5:10:16 PM)
Whenever I start thinking about the old days, i think of all the shit that continues to get swept off into corners in the name of some ideal that never existed. Its still a bowling league, only now it's all open bowling. I can live with that. It's fun sometimes going back to that world where I'm Mistress Francine, and slaves kiss my feet because of that. I'm good with being Hibbie now. The young folks dont remember most of what people like RS and I worked for, but isnt that the way of the world?

Lockit -> RE: Dominants to be leaders, teachers? (4/27/2012 5:21:22 PM)
I would hope that there is and can be heart in how things are now. I think there is, but I am not sure that it is organized like it has been in the past. I was never old school, though I knew a number of people that were. I am not talking old, old school... but what came after old, old school... god these terms are killing me... anyway, I don't consider Castle Realm old school unless it is old school online. I could appreciate some things I saw there, but a lot of it I thought was really, really off. lol I am not a sadist and am really not into many things I would need a trainer in, but if I ever did wish to go there, I have exactly who I would want to teach me! I am not in a position to teach or lead even if I had a mind to! My skills are more relationship oriented, life skills and teaching the things I was actually paid to teach because I earned where I was. I hope that we can appreciate evolution in ways. Because I guess I am a part of that. lol Don't kick me outta the club okay? hehe [8\|]

FantasyKisses -> RE: Dominants to be leaders, teachers? (4/27/2012 5:27:52 PM)
If dominants were not leaders inherently, they could not lead a submissive. That being said, there is: The annual inductees to the Leather Hall of Fame. The Janus Group, that has provided folks in our Life with legal assistance. The Gay Leather Fetishsts, who gave us the SSC motto. Ms. Dossie Easton The House Of Talos Guy Baldwin Persian Kitty Does anyone remember the name of the girl who kept the Little Girl Lost website? She introduced the Lolita concept beyond Nabikov. And here is just a sample of what it was to prevent: http://tacit.livejournal.com/359244.html But Los Angeles does have a very large scene, and I know for a fact that large cities like NYC and Boston have community leaders as well. I know it's easier to forget these folks in light of the 'anonymous' Internet where protocols, behaviors, and common human decency is masked by HTML and forum boxes, but ..... since you asked. Those were off the top of my head, while taking a break from an essay revision. Let me know if you want more...

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Dominants to be leaders, teachers? (4/27/2012 5:30:51 PM)
Mollena springs to mind. Activist. Community leader. Leather Award Winner. Slave.

LadyPact -> RE: Dominants to be leaders, teachers? (4/27/2012 5:35:15 PM)
To add to what RS was saying....... Part of the 'each one teach one' thing in the community also had to do with fewer opportunities then than there are now. Before, it was necessary to teach topping skills to those who entered the play space. You either taught them or your play space had to deal with people who brought the name of your club down because they didn't know what they were doing. Things are a lot different now. There are very few BDSM groups who don't offer demos and a person could darn near go to a three day convention darn near every other week. There are TONS of educational opportunities for just about anybody who wants to show up. It's still worth educating in those types of venues for topping skills. Personally, I'm more invested in those than I am for every person who signs up to a website. There isn't a thing that I posted here in the last five years that I couldn't show somebody better in person when it comes to that area. I think it's a bad assumption to believe that every person on the net is always going to be in teaching mode. I look at it very much in the same way that a person spends time at a play party. Sure, you might take some time out of your night to teach someone a trick or two, but that's not your whole point of being there. You also want to socialize, have some fun, and play a little yourself for a while. Anybody thinking anyone is only going to be focused on the educational aspect alone is going to be sadly mistaken.

DesFIP -> RE: Dominants to be leaders, teachers? (4/27/2012 5:41:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist That right there is some very, very old school shit . . . the credo was that leather was underground, so underground you needed to know the password to get into clubs etc. In the interest of its own growth and fresh meat, Dominants were expected to help guide submissives into the society. Whether by introductions (hence learning passwords), referrals, reading material or personal instruction. If you wasted a submissive by not guiding them, you were counter productive to society and not one of the brothers bringing fresh meat home for your other brothers. Many old school leather society figures maintain this credo but it manifests in a different form now that leather is public. I'd agree with this except for one change. "It manifests in a different form now that homosexuality is legal. Because that's why it came about in the way it did. You brought a young man in quietly to avoid going to jail for being actively homosexual. To be public was to be arrested.

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