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RE: Transgender vs Transsexual vs Transvestite - 5/4/2012 12:03:11 PM   
Karmastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

And yet, if there is to be any hope in legislating equality, enhancing public awareness, and increasing overall social tolerance and acceptance of gender expression, some form of generalized terminology and grouping is required.

Agree - need to start somewhere.

Thanks again OP. I really liked the way you reacted/responded to what appeared to be criticism (for lack of a better word). I learned from you today.

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RE: Transgender vs Transsexual vs Transvestite - 5/4/2012 2:01:11 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

Intersex and hermaphrodite do not mean the same thing. A hermaphrodite is a mythical condition where the person is said to be wholly male and wholly female. It does not exist in humans.


As a point of clarification - "hermaphrodite" used to be used to refer to any of the range of medical conditions which are collectively and more appropriately called "intersex," so that's probably where the confusion lies.


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RE: Transgender vs Transsexual vs Transvestite - 5/4/2012 2:21:56 PM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

And yet, if there is to be any hope in legislating equality, enhancing public awareness, and increasing overall social tolerance and acceptance of gender expression, some form of generalized terminology and grouping is required.

Is it? I'm not so sure.


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RE: Transgender vs Transsexual vs Transvestite - 5/4/2012 2:33:57 PM   
Anaxagoras


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
I thought being born of both genders was a hermaphrodite, which is reputed to be an extremely rare condition in humans, while the more commonly found intersexualism relates to people that are strictly of one biological sex (male or female gonads) but their development is complicated and may even develop as a member of the opposite sex instead.

-hermaphrodite is a myth... it's like "Zeus"..

Yeah the term hermaphrodite is based on Hermaphroditus who in Greek mythology had male and female organs but the term is used for living organisms that have both, e.g. earthworms. If I remember correctly Hermaphroditism was ascribed as a condition in humans in the 19th Century but it was so rare modern reports were non-existent so the old studies were thought to be a misrepresentation of some type of intersexuality (between sexes rather than of both sexes). However, I read somewhere that a woman (i.e. a person more female than male) was found who corresponded with the definition of a "true-hermaphrodite" as she had both both XX and XY tissue and under-developed testes and ovaries.

quote:


if you really thinka about it for a second (forget the porn). how is the both "sex organs" are found in one person without the possibility of one ruling over the other.

Yeah thats usually how it is with intersex conditions. The person is usually more male or more female but hermaphroditism relates to both the gonads (testes/ovaries) and genitals.

quote:


think about it:
if someone have penis & balls.. & vagina.. the balls would cover the vaginal cavity.. & the clit..
in the (porn) it seems that the (balls) are hidden inside.. which is 100% wrong & medically impossible

I think it would help to see the male and female genitals as the left and right sides of a line. say you start on the female side of the line: there is a clitoris, ovaries and vagina (external area). These translate into the penis, the testes and the scrotum on the male side. The internal part of the vagina develops separately. They start out the same way with a fetus in the womb but they differentiate into the male or female genitals with the presence of oestrogen for females and androgens for males. A genuine hermaphrodite would also have one set of genitals but depending on the hormones in the womb will be male, female or ambiguous (very small penis, closed off vagina that can look like a scrotum etc.).

quote:


the "balls" in the male sex organs have their own temperature for them to work..
(that`s why they "dangle" in the summer)... & heeing that they are hidden inside would actually not working what so ever..
(there was a study in India.. where the males tuck their balls inside abdomin.. that would lead to 0% working balls) the study was about the male.. birth-control..

Thats true but if you look at AIS intersexuals who are genetic males but develop as women before and after birth, they have non-functioning testes usually in the abdomen.

quote:


-the other myth is (futanari) that what they called it in animation world..
which is a person who have the both sex working 100% in the same time.. which is impossible.. mathmaticlly..
here a pic to discripe the anatomy of a "futanari"

PS: the "balls" can found outside of the body in "Futanari".. but come`on... its a myth..
Edit: resizing issues

Yeah I agree it would be impossible for one person to have both organs even if full-on true-hermaphrodites (not the myth but the 19th Century medical definition) exist!

BTW I know all this shit because I had an interest in how human beings developed (especially sexually) a while back. Too much time on my hands I guess...

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RE: Transgender vs Transsexual vs Transvestite - 5/4/2012 2:39:08 PM   
OttersSwim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

And yet, if there is to be any hope in legislating equality, enhancing public awareness, and increasing overall social tolerance and acceptance of gender expression, some form of generalized terminology and grouping is required.

Is it? I'm not so sure.



Well I mean we could just say "Hey you guys..." No, no, that wouldn't work would it...

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RE: Transgender vs Transsexual vs Transvestite - 5/4/2012 2:42:40 PM   
BKSir


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Status: offline 		I think the biggest problem is TRYING to label everyone, when we should be going the opposite direction and just saying "Hey, it's a PERSON.", and moving on.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Transgender vs Transsexual vs Transvestite - 5/4/2012 2:43:25 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

And yet, if there is to be any hope in legislating equality, enhancing public awareness, and increasing overall social tolerance and acceptance of gender expression, some form of generalized terminology and grouping is required.


I tend to agree. Not there is any empirical evidence, there is no legislative equality, very little public awareness, and minimal social tolerance, in the US at least. Gender identity issues are the last big holdout here, relegated to comedy shows and jokes on late night.

I find it sad.





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RE: Transgender vs Transsexual vs Transvestite - 5/4/2012 2:56:07 PM   
Reikm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt


I tend to agree. Not there is any empirical evidence, there is no legislative equality, very little public awareness, and minimal social tolerance, in the US at least. Gender identity issues are the last big holdout here, relegated to comedy shows and jokes on late night.

I find it sad.






AMEN SISTER!

Anyway on the topic of labeling, I can't speak for the whole community but for me it brought tears to my eyes and a relief that I cant even begin to explain to know what "I was" and to know there were others like me.

Course now I HATE the label and am doing everything I can to get rid of it and just be a girl, but thats why we call it TRANSITION lol.



< Message edited by Reikm -- 5/4/2012 2:57:27 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Transgender vs Transsexual vs Transvestite - 5/4/2012 3:29:56 PM   
ashjor911


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

Yeah I agree it would be impossible for one person to have both organs even if full-on true-hermaphrodites (not the myth but the 19th Century medical definition) exist!

BTW I know all this shit because I had an interest in how human beings developed (especially sexually) a while back. Too much time on my hands I guess...


I have dont that with you... (diagreeing- on something)
so lets just agree on that it did happen in the 19th Century.....

& the doctor had to play GOD... & decided which organs to cut & which to leave.. "its not right".

however, (from another point you did write)..

quote:

I think it would help to see the male and female genitals as the left and right sides of a line. say you start on the female side of the line: there is a clitoris, ovaries and vagina (external area). These translate into the penis, the testes and the scrotum on the male side. The internal part of the vagina develops separately. They start out the same way with a fetus in the womb but they differentiate into the male or female genitals with the presence of oestrogen for females and androgens for males. A genuine hermaphrodite would also have one set of genitals but depending on the hormones in the womb will be male, female or ambiguous (very small penis, closed off vagina that can look like a scrotum etc.).


its just can not bee done.. lets say a person have a penis "with balls" on the top of his right on the inside corner of the right thigh
& a vaina on the left.. (he/she) would have to have sex with (him/her) self..!! & get him to get her pregnant... & make their own (sex) from their own (genes)..

if (he/she) run.. that would break the eggs "balls" & damage the labia.. dont you think?

what a person dose to (his/her) body is (his/her) own problem... they can do whatever they want..
but, no-one out there who want to play God on that issue.. "without" asking him to do so ..

about another thing here in this topic.. making jokes...
who cares about the jokes... there is alot of jokes out there about any & everybody... jews,muslims, gay,Lesbian...
who cares...?

being different is being special.. when people can understand that, they would bee ok with the jokes & laugh about it... let it go.... its a joke.. i have laughed about so many (arab or M.E - muslims) jokes that "david letterman" did in the last 5 years... & i did laughed about it... its a joke...

people can & will respect you...
take me for example... every time i looked into the op avatar i want to take it out of screen print it ..& wank all over it... but, i did not... coz she hates..guys ..so.. i do it behind her back..

kidding.... i did not wanked over your avatar... unless you want me to..?

PS: (Futanari) the came with huge dicks & balls & came so damn hard ... i wish i was one

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Transgender vs Transsexual vs Transvestite - 5/4/2012 3:55:22 PM   
Reikm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911



take me for example... every time i looked into the op avatar i want to take it out of screen print it ..& wank all over it... but, i did not... coz she hates..guys ..so.. i do it behind her back..






Aww thats so sweet, I think.

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Transgender vs Transsexual vs Transvestite - 5/4/2012 4:01:02 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

Y'all might consider this a more clearly worded summary.

Or, you might consider it to be incorrect. Many people don't agree with the use of an umbrella term like transgender to toss everyone into the same pot. When you attempt to categorize folks like this, you're walking into a potential minefield.

It absolutely is a minefield, you're right. But it's a minefield that makes conceptualisation and conversation a lot easier.

We can either not talk about gender variation at all because not all of the words are exactly right for everybody (not an option), or we can demand that everybody fit neatly into the categories listed in that link (as you've pointed out, not exactly a great option for everybody either) or we can use the categories as far as they are useful, and if somebody says 'hey, this doesn't apply to me' then we don't apply it to them, and we use more words/more complex words and phrases if and when we have to.

I'm sorry if you don't like that. But I'm not giving up useful concepts which apply to a lot of people just because they don't apply to everyone. Like it or not, transgender is an umbrella term that many people identify with and feel comfortable with. You're right in that many people don't agree with its use, but that doesn't take away the right of the first group of people to use it as an umbrella term for themselves.

Anyone has the right to declare themselves outside of the umbrella, and I will respect that. But that doesn't mean the umbrella isn't useful.

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RE: Transgender vs Transsexual vs Transvestite - 5/4/2012 7:25:50 PM   
Anaxagoras


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
Yeah I agree it would be impossible for one person to have both organs even if full-on true-hermaphrodites (not the myth but the 19th Century medical definition) exist!

BTW I know all this shit because I had an interest in how human beings developed (especially sexually) a while back. Too much time on my hands I guess...

I have dont that with you... (diagreeing- on something)
so lets just agree on that it did happen in the 19th Century.....

& the doctor had to play GOD... & decided which organs to cut & which to leave.. "its not right".

Just in case you doubt the claim about the medical definition being from the 1800's:
quote:

During the Victorian era, medical authors introduced the terms "true hermaphrodite" for an individual who has both ovarian and testicular tissue, verified under a microscope...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex#History

quote:


however, (from another point you did write)..

quote:

I think it would help to see the male and female genitals as the left and right sides of a line. say you start on the female side of the line: there is a clitoris, ovaries and vagina (external area). These translate into the penis, the testes and the scrotum on the male side. The internal part of the vagina develops separately. They start out the same way with a fetus in the womb but they differentiate into the male or female genitals with the presence of oestrogen for females and androgens for males. A genuine hermaphrodite would also have one set of genitals but depending on the hormones in the womb will be male, female or ambiguous (very small penis, closed off vagina that can look like a scrotum etc.).

its just can not bee done.. lets say a person have a penis "with balls" on the top of his right on the inside corner of the right thigh
& a vaina on the left.. (he/she) would have to have sex with (him/her) self..!! & get him to get her pregnant... & make their own (sex) from their own (genes)..

if (he/she) run.. that would break the eggs "balls" & damage the labia.. dont you think?

what a person dose to (his/her) body is (his/her) own problem... they can do whatever they want..
but, no-one out there who want to play God on that issue.. "without" asking him to do so ..

Sorry there was a misunderstanding as I may not have explained clearly enough. When I talked about a line with female genitalia at one side and male on the other, I didn't mean on the body of a person. I meant an imaginary line like a scale in mathematics. I'll explain again. Imagine a number scale. In the middle is zero. On the left is minus numbers representing female genital characteristics. One the right is the positive numbers representing male genital characteristics. Zero is not female and not male either. Zero is where the fetus is in the early stages of development. It is not a boy or girl at this stage. It is only after male or female sexual hormones affect its growth (after the twelfth week of pregnancy I think) that it becomes a boy or girl with male or female genitalia. The clitoris is the female version of the penis as they develop from the same bit of the body on the fetus. It is the same with the scrotum and exterior part of the vagina. A hermaphrodite or intersexual has only one genital area like a normal man or woman but it may be ambiguous (not clearly male or female genitalia). If it is the organ for the penis or clitoris is between the two sizes - see the photograph on the link. There are other signs too.

quote:


about another thing here in this topic.. making jokes...
who cares about the jokes... there is alot of jokes out there about any & everybody... jews,muslims, gay,Lesbian...
who cares...?

being different is being special.. when people can understand that, they would bee ok with the jokes & laugh about it... let it go.... its a joke.. i have laughed about so many (arab or M.E - muslims) jokes that "david letterman" did in the last 5 years... & i did laughed about it... its a joke...

Indeed, very good point. Humour can be hostile but it can also be a very positive thing.

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Transgender vs Transsexual vs Transvestite - 5/4/2012 7:54:09 PM   
Karmastic


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Joined: 4/5/2012
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Reikm
quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911
take me for example... every time i looked into the op avatar i want to take it out of screen print it ..& wank all over it... but, i did not... coz she hates..guys ..so.. i do it behind her back..


Aww thats so sweet, I think.

would a sadist tear it up afterwards?

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Transgender vs Transsexual vs Transvestite - 5/5/2012 3:18:43 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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From: Liechtenstein
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911

how many Dominant Women who have tried a (prostate massage) on male?

I like giving women (cis shefemale genderstraight natural-born) prostate massages.

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Transgender vs Transsexual vs Transvestite - 5/6/2012 8:09:30 AM   
Reikm


Posts: 23
Joined: 5/2/2012
Status: offline 		Pretty sure the topic has been adequately discussed, and now seems to be derailing.

If possible OP wishes thread closed to preserve initial intent.

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Transgender vs Transsexual vs Transvestite - 5/6/2012 8:10:37 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Since when do we close threads around here just because the person who started it has that preference?

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Transgender vs Transsexual vs Transvestite - 5/6/2012 1:07:02 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline 		Since this was designed as a reference thread, here's some more reference links:

Not Your Mom's Trans 101

GLAAD Media Reference Guide

Cis Privilege Checklist

Derailing For Dummies (applies to all discussions of/with oppressed groups)



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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Transgender vs Transsexual vs Transvestite - 5/6/2012 3:15:00 PM   
ashjor911


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From: balcony, having a Smoke
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Since when do we close threads around here just because the person who started it has that preference?


well, it can bee donne if:
1- the person who started the topic is a MOD but he is under another screen name as undercover agent.
2 the person who started the topic have the rear(hot) line to a MOD.. & the MOD dose what the person tells him to...

kinda make sence

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my name is : bonsh ... jamesh bonsh.
code name : 009.5
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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Transgender vs Transsexual vs Transvestite - 5/6/2012 8:42:27 PM   
Reikm


Posts: 23
Joined: 5/2/2012
Status: offline 		I did say "If possible"

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Transgender vs Transsexual vs Transvestite - 5/7/2012 11:23:11 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911
...he is under another screen name as undercover agent.

Wow! You mean like a Secret Agent Man?

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Profile   Post #: 60
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