RE: Training a submissive....

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littlewonder -> RE: Training a submissive.... (5/4/2012 1:45:40 PM)
cats can be trained. It's just not as easy as dogs or other pets. My neighbor has a cat that he has trained to follow him outside without a leash and even where to walk on the road so the cars don't hit him. He never chases anything, never goes up to other people, never runs off. The cat stays right beside my neighbor as he walks his dog. Master has trained his cats in certain things as well. Like I said, it just takes more work but it can be done.

tj444 -> RE: Training a submissive.... (5/4/2012 1:53:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder cats can be trained. It's just not as easy as dogs or other pets. My neighbor has a cat that he has trained to follow him outside without a leash and even where to walk on the road so the cars don't hit him. He never chases anything, never goes up to other people, never runs off. The cat stays right beside my neighbor as he walks his dog. Master has trained his cats in certain things as well. Like I said, it just takes more work but it can be done. the cats arent trained, they are merely humoring you humans.. [:D] If a cat doesnt want to do something, they wont.. ask anyone who has tried to get a cat to stop clawing the furniture.. [:-] My cat would deliberately do it right in front of me. Even when sternly told not to, he would look me in the eye and continue scratching.. it was a game to him..

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Training a submissive.... (5/4/2012 1:57:35 PM)
Absolutely cats can be trained. I have mine trained to wake me up at 6 am for snack time.

tj444 -> RE: Training a submissive.... (5/4/2012 2:06:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt Absolutely cats can be trained. I have mine trained to wake me up at 6 am for snack time. [:D]

LaTigresse -> RE: Training a submissive.... (5/4/2012 2:07:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder cats can be trained. It's just not as easy as dogs or other pets. My neighbor has a cat that he has trained to follow him outside without a leash and even where to walk on the road so the cars don't hit him. He never chases anything, never goes up to other people, never runs off. The cat stays right beside my neighbor as he walks his dog. Master has trained his cats in certain things as well. Like I said, it just takes more work but it can be done. the cats arent trained, they are merely humoring you humans.. [:D] If a cat doesnt want to do something, they wont.. ask anyone who has tried to get a cat to stop clawing the furniture.. [:-] My cat would deliberately do it right in front of me. Even when sternly told not to, he would look me in the eye and continue scratching.. it was a game to him.. I actually think that it's simply that cats are not as evolved to 'need' humans. Dogs have been human companions for a lot longer than cats have. I could make a snarky remark and say that dogs are more intelligent but truth be told, I think it's not a matter of more or less. Just different. Cats haven't been bred and evolved into being as dependent of, or desiring of, human companionship. Overall, they haven't the movitation to please us that dogs do.

tj444 -> RE: Training a submissive.... (5/4/2012 2:16:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I actually think that it's simply that cats are not as evolved to 'need' humans. Dogs have been human companions for a lot longer than cats have. I could make a snarky remark and say that dogs are more intelligent but truth be told, I think it's not a matter of more or less. Just different. Cats haven't been bred and evolved into being as dependent of, or desiring of, human companionship. Overall, they haven't the movitation to please us that dogs do. I dunno.. submissives are highly motivated to please.. vanilla women/men arent motivated to, for the most part.. so, in a similar way you describe the difference between dogs & cats, why the big difference between sub & vanilla humans?

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Training a submissive.... (5/4/2012 2:24:50 PM)
It's been found out that cats domesticated themselves. In other words, it was entirely their idea, which says a lot about cats, IMO. They pretty much moved in and demanded attention and snacks.

LaTigresse -> RE: Training a submissive.... (5/4/2012 2:28:35 PM)
I think you misunderstand me. I wasn't comparing cats to vanilla humans and dogs to submissive humans. I don't think cats are particularly motivated to obey or not. They simply don't NEED humans therefor lack the innate motivation to obey. Regardless of dominant or submissive, humans have evolved to need humans, whether directly or not. And yes, as much as cats domesticate themselves, it could be said that mice do. They are both opportunistic. If being around humans makes their lives easier, they will be around. If humans ceased serving their purpose, they would just as easily un-domesticate themselves.

tj444 -> RE: Training a submissive.... (5/4/2012 2:37:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I think you misunderstand me. I wasn't comparing cats to vanilla humans and dogs to submissive humans. I don't think cats are particularly motivated to obey or not. They simply don't NEED humans therefor lack the innate motivation to obey. Regardless of dominant or submissive, humans have evolved to need humans, whether directly or not. And yes, as much as cats domesticate themselves, it could be said that mice do. They are both opportunistic. If being around humans makes their lives easier, they will be around. If humans ceased serving their purpose, they would just as easily un-domesticate themselves. No, I didnt misunderstand.. I know you werent comparing pets to humans.. just you described traits like subs have and vanillas tend not to have.. The OP is the one comparing dogs to subs.. I dont agree that cats dont need human companionship, they just dont go about it the same way dogs do, cats have standards.. [:D] i had 2 cats and even tho they had each other when we werent there, they both did need us.. Every night I was a human pretzel, one cat slept on the pillow above my head, with the other cat sleeping in the middle and me curled up in the fetal position around him.. They would not have slept with me if they didnt want my companionship.. of course that still didnt mean that I could train them! [;)]

LaTigresse -> RE: Training a submissive.... (5/4/2012 2:45:49 PM)
You are putting the cats you have into the equasion. I am speaking about the species in general. Two different things. The cat that lives at my farm does need me. Not because it's a cat thing but because it's a need that was created from the time he wobbled his furry little butt up to the house from the shed he was born in. Now he needs me. His mother, father, siblings never did. In fact they've always avoided being even close to me.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Training a submissive.... (5/4/2012 2:48:11 PM)
Again with the you can't train cats !! Mine are trained to sleep on me at night, to follow me around if their water or kibble dish is empty, and to yowl if the cat box is not up to their cleanliness standards. The other day Spooky's water dish was empty, and he yowled until I followed him into the kitchen, then stuck his nose in the empty water dish and gave me a very jaundiced look. Like WTF is wrong with you woman? Get me some water, now !!

tj444 -> RE: Training a submissive.... (5/4/2012 3:06:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse You are putting the cats you have into the equasion. I am speaking about the species in general. Two different things. The cat that lives at my farm does need me. Not because it's a cat thing but because it's a need that was created from the time he wobbled his furry little butt up to the house from the shed he was born in. Now he needs me. His mother, father, siblings never did. In fact they've always avoided being even close to me. sure but there are wild dogs also that dont need humans the way pet dogs do.. there are feral cats and there are also feral dogs & feral dog packs.. you just dont hear as much about them.. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/08/0821_030821_straydogs.html

Karmastic -> RE: Training a submissive.... (5/4/2012 3:50:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I actually think that it's simply that cats are not as evolved to 'need' humans. Dogs have been human companions for a lot longer than cats have. I could make a snarky remark and say that dogs are more intelligent but truth be told, I think it's not a matter of more or less. Just different. Cats haven't been bred and evolved into being as dependent of, or desiring of, human companionship. Overall, they haven't the movitation to please us that dogs do. very astute POV. also, i think cats are less pack oriented than dogs, so dogs see the human as their alpha pack leader, and it's instinctual to follow and obey, and to want to please.

Karmastic -> RE: Training a submissive.... (5/4/2012 3:57:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I think you misunderstand me. I wasn't comparing cats to vanilla humans and dogs to submissive humans. I don't think cats are particularly motivated to obey or not. They simply don't NEED humans therefor lack the innate motivation to obey. Regardless of dominant or submissive, humans have evolved to need humans, whether directly or not. And yes, as much as cats domesticate themselves, it could be said that mice do. They are both opportunistic. If being around humans makes their lives easier, they will be around. If humans ceased serving their purpose, they would just as easily un-domesticate themselves. No, I didnt misunderstand.. I know you werent comparing pets to humans.. just you described traits like subs have and vanillas tend not to have.. The OP is the one comparing dogs to subs.. I dont agree that cats dont need human companionship, they just dont go about it the same way dogs do, cats have standards.. [:D] i had 2 cats and even tho they had each other when we werent there, they both did need us.. Every night I was a human pretzel, one cat slept on the pillow above my head, with the other cat sleeping in the middle and me curled up in the fetal position around him.. They would not have slept with me if they didnt want my companionship.. of course that still didnt mean that I could train them! [;)] you're being very human-centric. you have no idea what motivates the cats. as LaTi said, cats are opportunistic. you may be a source of warmth and a good vibrating cushion with manipulatable (sp) arms that rub good spots. i'm not saying dogs don't also think of their owners as a resource (they do). but you're anthropomorphize cats.

DommesLesEnigma -> RE: Training a submissive.... (5/4/2012 4:33:42 PM)
Even if you get into a form of play where your sub wants to be treated as an animal all the time (I've talk to some subs who did want this...to them I said "It's not my thing, sorry"), it is still a form of play. Just switch up the rules on them and you will see how quick they will let you know in human terms that is not what you agreed to.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Training a submissive.... (5/4/2012 7:03:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I think you misunderstand me. I wasn't comparing cats to vanilla humans and dogs to submissive humans. I don't think cats are particularly motivated to obey or not. They simply don't NEED humans therefor lack the innate motivation to obey. Regardless of dominant or submissive, humans have evolved to need humans, whether directly or not. And yes, as much as cats domesticate themselves, it could be said that mice do. They are both opportunistic. If being around humans makes their lives easier, they will be around. If humans ceased serving their purpose, they would just as easily un-domesticate themselves. The fact that cats can be house trained speaks a bit against that, cats can be trained but not like dogs, you have to make the cat WANT to do something because then something pleasant happens, i.e. they like a human and the human will pet them if they do a certain action, they do something and they get a treat... The difference is you have to catch a cat in the right mood when you start the training, of else it will just walk off. Though I did train all my cats to not go on tables - there is something to be said for water pistols....

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Training a submissive.... (5/4/2012 7:10:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I think you misunderstand me. I wasn't comparing cats to vanilla humans and dogs to submissive humans. I don't think cats are particularly motivated to obey or not. They simply don't NEED humans therefor lack the innate motivation to obey. Regardless of dominant or submissive, humans have evolved to need humans, whether directly or not. And yes, as much as cats domesticate themselves, it could be said that mice do. They are both opportunistic. If being around humans makes their lives easier, they will be around. If humans ceased serving their purpose, they would just as easily un-domesticate themselves. The fact that cats can be house trained speaks a bit against that, cats can be trained but not like dogs, you have to make the cat WANT to do something because then something pleasant happens, i.e. they like a human and the human will pet them if they do a certain action, they do something and they get a treat... The difference is you have to catch a cat in the right mood when you start the training, of else it will just walk off. Though I did train all my cats to not go on tables - there is something to be said for water pistols.... Which sounds very mean, but sometimes a water pistol is the only thing a cat will understand. I use it, since they tend to claw on the wood door frame that leads to my bedroom Yeah, I got that they think they own me. Do they have to tell the physical world?

LadyConstanze -> RE: Training a submissive.... (5/4/2012 7:13:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Certainly some dogs are going to be smarter than others (after all, nearly every single person I've known that has dog/s think that THEIR dog is smarter than the average canine.) but the reality is that it's not necessarily about smart or not when comparing humans and dogs. I truly would not ever claim that when it comes to Alfie, he's a lovable boy but he's about as daft as a brush, with the 2 Dobes I have, one is really scarily smart (the vets put a warning behind her name to padlock the cage as she figured out how to manipulate the latch, she opens our backdoor by turning the key with her mouth and then takes herself for a walk or to the butcher to beg for bones...) manages to figure out interactive dog toys in minutes, she's a hell lot of trouble because she gets easily bored, I wouldn't mind if she'd be a little bit less smart, or she could give the boy some brain cells. The toys Kia discards because they're too easy and she figured out how to manipulate them to get to the treats, Alfie still stares at them in amazement and tries to lick his way to the treat, he keeps watching the girl but never twigged that he has to manipulate buttons and turn it around so treats fall out. Don't love him any less because he's a bit simple, essentially they're both lovable dogs who think all humans exist to give them strokes and make cooing noises over them. The only thing where it matters if a dog is quicker on the uptake is when it comes to training them, if they are smart you just have to vary your training enough to not bore the dog and essentially the smarter they are the more work they cause, because they are especially good figuring out things you don't want them to figure out....

kiwisub12 -> RE: Training a submissive.... (5/4/2012 7:54:58 PM)
Seems to me that a D/s relationship is more like a pack/dog relationship than a solitary/cat thing. I know in my relationships i am totally not a leader - I look to the boss for direction - just as my dogs look to me for the same. My cats and i enjoy quality time together - and quality time apart - but it really isn't a good model for life. I've got cats , dogs, and birds and of them all, the dog model is more like my human interactions. Well - maybe with my african grey there is an element of sadism/masochism which had more to do with her teaching me what she wanted from me and how i was to give it to her (scabs for a year on my hands). Luckily, as a human, i get to choose how my relationships progress. If i want to follow, i can - if i want some distance, i can have it. and if i want to give another the right to tell me what to do, i will.

Karmastic -> RE: Training a submissive.... (5/4/2012 7:57:45 PM)
quote: I've got cats , dogs, and birds and of them all, the dog model is more like my human interactions. Well - maybe with my african grey there is an element of sadism/masochism which had more to do with her teaching me what she wanted from me and how i was to give it to her (scabs for a year on my hands). ???

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