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Training a submissive.... - 5/3/2012 6:46:34 PM   
David519


Posts: 27
Joined: 10/29/2011
Status: offline 		A few weeks ago I started thinking about getting another dog. In January my little buddy passed away after 13 years of loyal companionship and left a huge void.

Through the grapevine I heard about a dog that had been waiting for adoption for months. "Anxiety Issues", "Behavioral Problems" etc etc. But, I also heard that she was a wonderful dog who just needed a human who knew how to deal with her.

Long story short, she's snoozing on her pillow behind my chair right now. A happy, well-adjusted, if occasionally spastically excited dog.

I've had some experience working with dogs, and I've been kicking around the lifestyle for some time so I've worked with the occasional human as well.

Perhaps its because this is the first female dog I've worked with that it clicked that the two situations require a similar approach.

Of course I would never take a crop or an ouchy thing to my dog (those are her hard limits) but outside of that my methods are almost exactly the same.

Consistency

A firm tone when required

I am the alpha, the pack leader....and yes I will stand in the rain at the door after a 1am walk and wait 15 minutes for you to sit before opening the door just to prove it. (dog people will get this (pack leaders always exit and enter before their pack))

Does anyone else see the similarities?

There are some differences...if a human female subbie punched me in the face 30 seconds after my alarm went off because she wanted to play I would do more than say, "NO! SIT!" Coming to think of it I might take her outside and let her chase a ball around. I live in the middle of town...


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RE: Training a submissive.... - 5/3/2012 6:55:12 PM   
JanahX


Posts: 3443
Joined: 8/21/2010
Status: offline 		thats awesome that you treat women like you would your dog. Hows that working for you oh mighty PACK LEADER?

If anyone even tried to act like that around me, Id laugh in their face.





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The second rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.


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RE: Training a submissive.... - 5/3/2012 6:56:21 PM   
David519


Posts: 27
Joined: 10/29/2011
Status: offline 		I treat my animals as well as I treat my human friends.

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RE: Training a submissive.... - 5/3/2012 7:06:35 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David519
Does anyone else see the similarities?

Yes.


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officially a member of the K Crowd

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RE: Training a submissive.... - 5/3/2012 7:13:08 PM   
Kaliko


Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline 		There can be a certain sexual element to that kind of treatment. I will give you that. There is little that I won't find some sort of excitement in, at least in the short term. But that is where it would end.

Personally, I would prefer to be treated like a woman.

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RE: Training a submissive.... - 5/3/2012 7:37:21 PM   
subbyinlosangele


Posts: 117
Joined: 1/23/2012
Status: offline 		I understand your point, but I think the way you are expressing it would be offputting to most people. I think the large majority of submissives wouldn't want to be in a relationship where there are being compared to a dog in the way you are laying this out. Some of your basic points are okay, but as they say god is in the details, and some of your details come off as a little icky to me.

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RE: Training a submissive.... - 5/3/2012 7:42:39 PM   
Killerangel


Posts: 1169
Joined: 8/3/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subbyinlosangele

I understand your point, but I think the way you are expressing it would be offputting to most people. I think the large majority of submissives wouldn't want to be in a relationship where there are being compared to a dog in the way you are laying this out. Some of your basic points are okay, but as they say god is in the details, and some of your details come off as a little icky to me.


Exactly.

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RE: Training a submissive.... - 5/3/2012 7:55:33 PM   
BurntKitty


Posts: 3340
Joined: 9/7/2010
From: Here To Eternity.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Killerangel


quote:

ORIGINAL: subbyinlosangele

I understand your point, but I think the way you are expressing it would be offputting to most people. I think the large majority of submissives wouldn't want to be in a relationship where there are being compared to a dog in the way you are laying this out. Some of your basic points are okay, but as they say god is in the details, and some of your details come off as a little icky to me.


Exactly.


ditto

I don't relate to d/s at all. However, I am into pet play somewhat. In "Kitty" mode, pet me, scritch me, feed me, let me nap on your chest. Human mode- get with the whacking & thwacking, face slapping & choking and I'm a happy maso.


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RE: Training a submissive.... - 5/3/2012 8:16:51 PM   
Alecta


Posts: 1355
Joined: 1/19/2010
Status: offline 		Like Dogs, people have personalities. An approach that works on one may not work as well on another because of that personality. A situation that is happy and secure to one may be one that is only tolerated by the other for the sake of kibbles and steak. Tailoring your methods to suit the subject is the better way, IMO. It's a shame society at large is more understanding of a human running away than a Dog.

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RE: Training a submissive.... - 5/3/2012 8:21:39 PM   
David519


Posts: 27
Joined: 10/29/2011
Status: offline 		Yes, offputting. But that was deliberate I'll admit.

I'll also admit that at first I found it a bit unsettling that my mind jumped there.

While I do tend to take leadership roles in a group, and prefer to take a lead role in a relationship, for me much of the BDSM thing is kink. Bedroom stuff. if I found myself having to constantly say to a human female partner "NO! Down! Sit!" that would be too weird for me. I prefer reason and debate. Unfortunately that doesn't work with dogs.

Now, how many people are going to interpret "lead role in a relationship" as a tyrannical reign where I am not secure unless I have my boot on my partner's neck?

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RE: Training a submissive.... - 5/3/2012 8:30:24 PM   
Alecta


Posts: 1355
Joined: 1/19/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David519

Now, how many people are going to interpret "lead role in a relationship" as a tyrannical reign where I am not secure unless I have my boot on my partner's neck?


Eventually you'll just learn to laugh and shrug off the people who can't understand that just because you like/want to have your boot on your partner's neck does NOT automatically mean you're insecure ;)

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RE: Training a submissive.... - 5/3/2012 8:42:33 PM   
poise


Posts: 9509
Joined: 7/3/2010
Status: offline 		I'm sorry for the loss of your little buddy, and I'm glad your new pet found a home with you.
It seems you are both giving each other something that you both were in need of.

I didn't find anything offensive in your comparison at first, but in reading your post several times,
I'm a little confused about this part, and perhaps this is where it reads as a little crude.

Perhaps its because this is the first female dog I've worked with that it clicked that the
two situations require a similar approach.

Are you really implying that were the dog a male, you would treat him differently? That's just...odd.

To answer your question, I can find the similarities in the "happy well adjusted" part.


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RE: Training a submissive.... - 5/3/2012 8:56:07 PM   
BurntKitty


Posts: 3340
Joined: 9/7/2010
From: Here To Eternity.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David519
... my boot on my partner's neck?


Now that is fucking hot!

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RE: Training a submissive.... - 5/4/2012 12:53:41 AM   
subbyinlosangele


Posts: 117
Joined: 1/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David519

Now, how many people are going to interpret "lead role in a relationship" as a tyrannical reign where I am not secure unless I have my boot on my partner's neck?



Frankly, I doubt you care. This whole thread doesn't seem like you're really looking for a discussion, as much as you're trying to use the thread as an advertisement for yourself. I just interpret the "tyrannical reign" line as part of the ad.

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RE: Training a submissive.... - 5/4/2012 1:12:50 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline 		FR

I have 2 happy and really well adjusted dogs who also accept cats in their pack, because I treat them like dogs, beloved dogs but dogs. I don't explain to them because they don't think like humans do, they behave according to their breed and instincts, and some dogs react better to positive encouragement, so praising them for obeying will get me better results than forcing them to obey and sit in the rain. My dogs do what I tell them because they love me, they know I love them and they're eager to obey and get praise, not because they're shit scared of me, they accept me as the pack leader not because I'm stronger (freaking hell, 2 oversized Dobies could make mince meat out of me) but because they know I provide for them, protect them and praise them, as a result they love people and I can trust them with people, even kids hanging off their ears and tails. That's how I want it, loyalty because they love and they're loved and trust. And yes, that works even with cats and pet rats....

The same applies to dealing with humans, I wouldn't want somebody obedient because I trained them into obedience, but because they WANT to be obedient! Though I wouldn't compare humans to dogs or vice versa, simply far too different. Even within the same species or breed, you have different characters and you have to adjust your training and treatment, you can condition them to obey, which to a certain degree you have to with dogs, but again, if you know what makes your dog (or cat, or human) tick, you get just much better and faster results.

For the record, all my 4 legged pets are rescues, they all came with individual problems, I wouldn't treat a dog who went through several homes and neglect the same way I treat a dog who was overly loved but under-exercised, you just don't get the same results...

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RE: Training a submissive.... - 5/4/2012 2:45:49 AM   
RaspberryLemon


Posts: 422
Joined: 7/18/2011
Status: offline 		Although your post was worded in a somewhat off-putting/creepy manner (I agree with poise here--why does the dog being female make a difference?,) I do see similarities between dealing with owning dogs and owning people (at the very least, some people--including myself.)

Regardless of approach (which will vary by the individual--dog OR human,) consistency is always key. Not only for communication's sake, but for building trust and stability and a platform for mutual respect. Consistency is a very important factor in your subordinate' regard for you as the leader.

Most dogs (and people) respond well to positive reinforcement. Be that praise, food, access to certain privileges, etc.--something rewarding. The motivation here will vary, but the point being is that, just like LadyConstanze mentioned, you want them to obey because they want to please you, not because they are scared of you. They should be eager to please because they admire, appreciate, and love you. Likewise, sometimes correction can be necessary. Whether it be a look or a firm tone of voice, removal of something positive, some require it--some more than others.

However, the method that works with one may not with another. Adjustments, rethinking, and putting effort into knowing what makes that individual tick and how they think and feel is necessary, regardless of species.

So yes. There are a lot of parallels. Of course, humans are not dogs, and vice versa. Dogs do not think the same way we do, and that's important to keep in mind--their perception of the world is not colored through the human lens, but that of a dog. And, by nature, they cannot communicate with us in as much complexity as we can each other--so when working with dogs, explaining yourself and talking does not work as it will with a human. There are parallels, but also many differences--they are similar, but not the same.

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RE: Training a submissive.... - 5/4/2012 4:15:29 AM   
David519


Posts: 27
Joined: 10/29/2011
Status: offline 		To clarify, I wouldn't treat a male dog differently. Its just that when I'm thinking "This is what I need to do for her" that the feminine pronoun bridged the gap.

I have a very segmented mind and am able to keep different parts of my life completely isolated from another. So sometimes things that might seem obvious just aren't (and vice versa)

Raspberry Lemon has it exactly with the assertion that dogs do not think the same way we do. If anyone who thinks my talking about being a pack leader is silly owns a dog, I feel sorry for them (the human and the dog). Dogs are primal, pack animals. An alpha dog with a beta human will walk all over them. A beta dog with a beta human will see themselves as the pack leader and become stressed.

I spent most of my life in the military. I've held leadership roles both in the military and the civilian world. When you've got a problem with behaviour the approach always has to be tailored to the individual. With people I tend to use humour and insight. I tend to be a bit Machiavellian but mostly try and use it for good...mostly.

Actually, that's really just part of life isn't it regardless of the situation.

@subbyinlosangelas

Yes, you caught me. I only posted here with a deliberate off-putting view point to advertise myself because I am completely unable to express myself in other peoples threads.

So good job! If you sit nicely I'll give you a cookie!

/sarcasm



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RE: Training a submissive.... - 5/4/2012 6:04:50 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		My ex D's new sub and I both feel that he treated the dog better than us.

The Husky had been poorly socialized and had many behavior problems when we got him but R's patience, firmness, consistency and love turned him into a wonderful dog who sadly died young of cancer.

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RE: Training a submissive.... - 5/4/2012 6:16:47 AM   
Bhruic


Posts: 985
Joined: 4/11/2012
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

thats awesome that you treat women like you would your dog. Hows that working for you oh mighty PACK LEADER?

If anyone even tried to act like that around me, Id laugh in their face.



Odd you'd take that position, given the name of this site you are on :)

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RE: Training a submissive.... - 5/4/2012 6:20:30 AM   
JanahX


Posts: 3443
Joined: 8/21/2010
Status: offline 		Sorry I dont compare people to dogs - I find them highly different. Dogs are much smarter.

_____________________________

The first rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.

The second rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.


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