RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss of autonomy

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RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss o... - 5/7/2012 6:35:14 PM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
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I was really curious about your depression. I am not prone to it myself, nor anything else that I know of, but there are things which directed my path. Had those things not sequenced I might not have become submissive. What I have noticed in talking to people who, like me, don't seem to have a "vanilla" flavor is that there is some... glitch, I guess is the best word, that keeps them from being anything but submissive or slave, even when they are fitting into a role which is just like anyone else. For me I guess, being normal is the play and I am an actor who is still holding onto the script.
I am fairly certain I was short sheeted a couple of pages along the way.

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 81

RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss o... - 5/7/2012 6:40:30 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
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Very interesting topic, and I wish I had more time to contribute, but much of what I would say can be found in a topic I started a few months back on CNC relationships.

Live well,
Orion

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

Post #: 82

RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss o... - 5/7/2012 8:22:30 PM

LadyConstanze

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Joined: 2/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

Heh... and this is why it can be so hard sometimes to "get" someone else. Because honestly, Carol and I barely float around the edges of "BDSM". But even so, our viewpoint on this is so vastly different. For us, it is not "tiresome" for me to be in charge and Carol to obey. It's actually how we behave as a default. It is not "boring and unsatisfying" to us. The quiet but pervasive nature of the dynamic feeds us both... me directly and her indirectly. For us, BDSM is not exactly a "central aspect of our lives". Instead, "BDSM" is just the convenient label to use when talking to kinksters that describes central aspects of our personality and relationship. For us, the "central" part has nothing to do with bondage, discipline, sadism or masochism. The central part is authority and ownership.

I totally get that it's OK for you and it's how you tick, but for a lot of relationships that are TPE focused, there is so often an underlying issue, kind of a running away from reality that I personally find disturbing. I like being independent and anybody I'm attracted to has to be independent as well, the idea that somebody couldn't function without me, it would scare me. Don't get me wrong, I'm totally into my other half and he's totally into me (I guess it's safe to assume because after 10 years he's still bugging me to finally tie the knot), would we split up, I guess we'd both be very unhappy for quite a while, but we both wouldn't want to throw ourselves or each other over a cliff, or replace the other ASAP with a substitute, it's just we are happier together than we'd be apart, due to the nature of our work and life-styles, we're quite frequently apart from each other - coming home is nice, because how can you miss somebody who's always there?

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 83

RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss o... - 5/7/2012 9:16:13 PM

Whiplashsmile4

Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
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I rather much look at things in a different light compared to many people.

When it comes to Autonomy... the people we have in our lives effect that regardless if you're Dom/sub/slave/switch/(add label nausa here). Such Our friends, Our family, (anybody that's part of our day to day life).

In my book, a smart Dominant knows to best limit being Dominant (being selective). I don't mean this from personality perspective. Just knowing enough to not have too many people depend upon them for so many decisions. People can simply eat up your own Autonomy regardless of your label.

Mental Domination...This is a facet of everyday life when interacting with people. I could probally spew out paragraphs on this topic. The punch line is it's all about the Charater/personality of the people involved. It's interesting Some people are rather adapt at getting what they want, by letting another person have a sense of mental domination over them.

It's really difficult to write about things in a Black and White context.

In regards to going too far with things, it becomes rather relative. Again, back to the Character/Personality of those involved.

Choices and decisions, we all make them everyday of our lives. Some of these things are conditioned (pre-programmed into our minds) other things are more up front in our conscious thought stream.

In many ways, we all have our own personal internal enslavements... and ain't half as Autonomous as we pretend we are.

This is just part of the way which I myself see or look at things.

_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

Post #: 84

RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss o... - 5/7/2012 9:48:09 PM

JeffBC

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Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
I totally get that it's OK for you and it's how you tick, but for a lot of relationships that are TPE focused, there is so often an underlying issue, kind of a running away from reality that I personally find disturbing.

*nods* There's a fine line there. As you say, if Carol and I got divorced anyone who bought stock in Ben & Jerry's would be set for life. But aside from the gallons of Cherry Garcia, we'd both survive. We are extraordinarily interdependent. We are not codependent.

Insofar as what drives other folks into a TPE relationship, I don't have enough experience to have any knowledgeable thought on that. It's worth noting though that the few TPE couples we have as friends don't feel particularly dysfunctional in any way. Mostly, they seem a lot like Carol and I... two people exploring love & authority. That, however, could be selection bias since I don't keep dysfunctional friends.

Overall, I find autonomy highly overrated. If I wanted to be autonomous I'd still be single. For me, I willingly and joyfully made myself a part of a union and at that moment my autonomy became useless baggage.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to LadyConstanze)

Post #: 85

RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss o... - 5/8/2012 8:05:43 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

So, what you and littlewonder are saying is that no matter how unhappy and unfulfilled you are...that it will not matter because all you are concerned with is that he is happy and fulfilled?

Uh huh.

Ok.

If you say so.

Sorry, have been busy and couldn't get back to this.

I can't speak for littlewonder but for myself, the unhappiness mostly occurs during play because his aim there is for me to cum repeatedly. I find the pressure to have that happen can prevent it, menopause by itself makes it less common than before, and as a result I feel like a failure. And since I have generalized anxiety disorder, being anxious about this is a guarantee for a tailspin.

Oddly enough if he were more selfish and sadistic, this would be easier for me.

But I'm not unhappy and unfulfilled if he's happy and fulfilled with me. And during play, I get into a very vulnerable headspace where I am acutely sensitive to rejection, or what I interpret as rejection. So I need a lot of positive reinforcement to come back to earth.

This doesn't happen if he's unhappy because of a car needing repair and him without a clue as to what's wrong with it. (yesterday).

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 86

RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss o... - 5/8/2012 9:45:16 AM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
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I guess for me I feel happier actually when we are playing because of the adrenaline and endorphin highs. Its the drop afterwards that kills me because of the chemicals in my system quickly quickly draining which makes my head a complete mess and then it takes a day or so for me to recover and try to get balanced again.

And here's where it gets sticky for me. If we played all the time, I'd become addicted to the play because of the chemicals that hit me. It gets to a point where I'm begging for any kind of play whatsoever like a junkie for their crack.

Thankfully life keeps us busy with other stuff and we both realize the need for balance in our lives.

< Message edited by littlewonder -- 5/8/2012 9:47:38 AM >

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 87

RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss o... - 5/8/2012 10:26:19 AM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
I totally get that it's OK for you and it's how you tick, but for a lot of relationships that are TPE focused, there is so often an underlying issue, kind of a running away from reality that I personally find disturbing.

*nods* There's a fine line there. As you say, if Carol and I got divorced anyone who bought stock in Ben & Jerry's would be set for life. But aside from the gallons of Cherry Garcia, we'd both survive. We are extraordinarily interdependent. We are not codependent.

Insofar as what drives other folks into a TPE relationship, I don't have enough experience to have any knowledgeable thought on that. It's worth noting though that the few TPE couples we have as friends don't feel particularly dysfunctional in any way. Mostly, they seem a lot like Carol and I... two people exploring love & authority. That, however, could be selection bias since I don't keep dysfunctional friends.

Overall, I find autonomy highly overrated. If I wanted to be autonomous I'd still be single. For me, I willingly and joyfully made myself a part of a union and at that moment my autonomy became useless baggage.

Same here, I don't mind my friends being a bit nuts but not emotional vampires, when I mingled a bit more, I saw a lot of people in very codependent and dysfunctional BDSM relationships, you know the kind where you do know a disaster is going to happen at one point in time...

We differ a bit on the autonomy issue, though that might be semantics, in my eyes to be part of a union, you have to bring something to the table and that's autonomy or else you are a drain on the other person, maybe I saw far too many relationships where people who should have split up were still together out of fear of being on their own... That's why I think keeping part of that autonomy is important to avoid the codependency issue.

_____________________________

There are 10 kinds of people who understand binary
Those who do and those who don't!

http://exdomme.blogspot.com/2012/07/public-service-announcement.html

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 88

RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss o... - 5/8/2012 5:30:04 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I can't speak for littlewonder but for myself, the unhappiness mostly occurs during play because his aim there is for me to cum repeatedly. I find the pressure to have that happen can prevent it, menopause by itself makes it less common than before, and as a result I feel like a failure. And since I have generalized anxiety disorder, being anxious about this is a guarantee for a tailspin.

I have sympathy for you feeling this way, Des. Why would you feel like a failure for something you are physically unable to do, as opposed to accepting that in yourself - much like you can't grow wings and fly, either - and not letting it get to you?

I used to feel similarly to that, but came to the conclusion that if he's asking me to exceed a physical limitation, then he won't get what he wants and that's his problem, not mine. Same with emotional limitations, for that matter. Sure, I'll try to grow and push through my own internal barriers, but if it really is impossible for me to accomplish something, then if anything I'd start getting pissed off that he was asking it of me, and would suggest he find someone who can give that to him, and let me go (we've actually had that conversation about an emotional barrier before).

But I won't feel like a failure, nor will I apologize, for not being able to do what I'm not able to do. It's just an unfair burden to put on yourself.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 89

RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss o... - 5/8/2012 5:35:50 PM

VideoAdminGamma

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Fast reply

I have pulled a couple of posts that insults the Lifestyle/Kinks of others and some post that are in reply to that. Please remain within TOS/Guidelines while posting and please report any violations rather than reply to them.

Thank you for being a part of CollarMe,
VideoAdminGamma

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(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 90

RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss o... - 5/8/2012 6:07:15 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

I have sympathy for you feeling this way, Des. Why would you feel like a failure for something you are physically unable to do, as opposed to accepting that in yourself - much like you can't grow wings and fly, either - and not letting it get to you?

Because I'm not getting the positive reinforcement I need after. But that isn't his fault either. The stress comes from the fact that right now we have have young adults in this house, between 19 and 25. So we aren't really able to plan play, look forward to it, and get into the right space for it.

We find ourselves suddenly all alone and feel that we need to take advantage of it. Both of us worrying about a kid coming home unexpectedly early, listening for a car door. And if we do get to play, there's a pressure on both of us to make the most of it.

And the last time we played, we had barely finished when we heard a car pulling up and had to suddenly clean up, get dressed, hide the toys, cover the rope marks etc. So there's no time or privacy to talk afterward either.

We're both stressed and play which ought to be relaxing isn't. But if we don't take advantage of that half hour, then we feel bad that we didn't. Damned if we do and damned if we don't. So when we rarely have the opportunity, having it be less than perfect is much more of a problem then when we had more time and could say "No problem, tomorrow it will go better". Hard to have a laissez faire attitude toward it when it may not happen again for a couple of months. And of course, because it's so long between, my tolerance is nonexistent.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 91

RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss o... - 5/8/2012 6:21:19 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

my opinion?

Get out on date nights. Rent a hotel for the night. The "kids" are old enough to fend for themselves.

I used to loooove date nights. It was fun and exciting, like a little mini vacation where I didn't have to worry about anything at all.

Now I get to have "date" night permanently lol.

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 92

RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss o... - 5/8/2012 9:03:28 PM

NuevaVida

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Oh I understand the issue with teens in the house - the Mister has just one so when she's with him (she lives with him 50%) we don't "BDSM-play" and reserve that for the times she isn't there and we're alone. But to feel like a failure because of life circumstances and physical limitations would be unhealthy behavior for me - it would be beating myself up for something totally NOT within my control.

Maybe you guys can do some weekends away throughout the year and really whoop it up.

Or send the kids away for the night!

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 93

RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss o... - 5/9/2012 6:07:14 AM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

hand em a few bucks for movies and whatnot and tell them to go away and stay with a friend for the night My daughter loved when I gave her those options lol.

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 94

RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss o... - 5/9/2012 6:15:18 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Their schedules don't mesh. One was working nights, the other days. By itself that means someone is always here, sleeping.

We're looking to things getting better though. We're setting up an apartment in a detached garage and shipping two of them up there. At that point it should be easier.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 95

RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss o... - 5/9/2012 6:19:14 AM

AngelOfSilence

Posts: 119
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Mental domination is good, internal enslavement is not. I would elaborate, but I'm not allowed to.

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My lack of concern for your sensibilities knows no bounds.

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Post #: 96

RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss o... - 5/9/2012 7:37:32 AM

LaTigresse

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Joined: 1/15/2006
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You are allowed as long as you behave like a courteous adult.

I've found the discussion on this thread fascinating and want to thank the participants and thread creator.

As with ANY relationship, when it's good it's good. I can understand how rare this type of relationship being positive for both parties can be. I can see how destructive this type of relationship can be.

I was thinking after reading this thread the other day.....how really common a certain amount of IE is in most relationships. If we didn't have some sort of IE in a relationship, people would not be so devastated when they went south. It's simply not something we spend a lot of time pondering, or discussing to the degree that the finite gets discussed on here. Offline, we all just DO.......we do not spend as much time analysing every nuance.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to AngelOfSilence)

Post #: 97

RE: mental domination, internal enslavement, and loss o... - 5/9/2012 7:56:25 AM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
I've found the discussion on this thread fascinating and want to thank the participants and thread creator.

Me too actually. It got deleted, but this thread helped me to really crystallize what portion of the "IE concept" has happened in my house.

quote:

I was thinking after reading this thread the other day.....how really common a certain amount of IE is in most relationships.

I think it's like pretty much everything else. I think that most or all of the patterns I see in "kinky" relationships exist in every other relationship I've ever seen. They are just more rarefied.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 98

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