Recovering a submissive

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racecardriver -> Recovering a submissive (5/10/2012 5:15:29 AM)
I started seeing a 34 year old lady who has discovered that she is a sub only few years earlier when she was in a vanilla marriage. She was unable to sustain her marriage due to her husband's vanilla nature. She divorced and almost immediately started a relationship with a self proclaimed dominant. Initially their experience was more like rough sex, then progressed into escalating abuse. Physical beatings where using the safe word would only cause more violent attacks and also severe mental abuse. I can list the many examples she gave, which would fill page after page. Instead this would illustrate the type of person this guy is: she was driving and talking on the phone to a friend (not a love interest), he becomes irritated and chokes her while driving to the extent that she blacks out, almost causing a wreck. Later when they get home she receives a sever beating. Because of the chocking her eyelids turn blue from blood vessels rupturing. The amazing thing is that he is a boyfriend, they do not live together and she needs him for nothing else. It has been several cycles where the violence escalates she stops seeing him for a while then she invites him back. It is almost like an addiction. My relationship with her started a couple of month ago, she proclaimed being a sub but doing the usual spanking and other dominant activity in a safe and loving manner with her she is able to submit during the session but not enough. We started as a casual relationship, as she was going through the usual cycle with the other guy, where she was just starting to see him again so no abuse yet. Soon I start seeing bruises that are not what you expect from a D/S relationship. At the same time I was beginning to really like her. We discussed us having a monogamous relationship, and I brought up her bruising. After a bit of coaxing she revealed the whole relationship and was in total denial about the abuse. It was her first experience in what she thought was a D/S relationship. Over the course of several days and showing her endless internet and other sources she realized she was in an abusive relationship and how a real dominant should behave. I did a sort of intervention and used what little submission she gave me to separate her from him with the help of one of her friend. She has not seen him in 6 weeks, she is going to therapy, but by no means cured of her addiction although much less. My issue is that my relationship with her suffered for a while as she subconsciously resented me for forcing the issue, but it is coming back slowly. The abusive guy was able to force her to submit by using his large physique to physically subdue her and severely beating her with a belt or a shoe, but he was able to get her full submission. She would feel her submission by merely hearing his voice or him touching her. In the last week I was able to extract some submission from her during our session, but certainly far from a level that I strive for. My plan is to slowly, over a period of a couple of months ease her into full submission. I have been able many times to have the submission of a woman in the various relationships that I had over the years, usually without having to deal with her being already submitted to another person. This has proven a lot harder, as I have to also de-condition her submission to the abusive person, who is now out of the picture. I would appreciate any pointers or suggestions from experienced Doms on the best way to de-condition her strong submission to the abusive guy and retrain her to submit to me?

DarkSteven -> RE: Recovering a submissive (5/10/2012 5:49:06 AM)
She was in a failed marriage (despite what you said, I suspect it failed for numerous reasons, it being vanilla not the sole or even most important one) for years. Instantly after the ink was dry on the divorce document, she jumped into another relationship, which was abusive. She then alternated you and the abuser and was with both of you at the same time. I think she needs to cool her jets for a bit. This is unfortunately at cross purposes with your desire and with her own nature. I can't think of anything you can do except what you have been doing. It would be best for her if she was in no relationships at all for a while, but that doesn't sound realistic - if you were to ease things off with her, she'd grab another man. Hell, she might anyway. Any way you can ensure the other guy is out of the picture? She still has a strong bond with him. Also, what does the therapist think of your relationship with her?

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Recovering a submissive (5/10/2012 6:00:32 AM)
First, welcome to the discussion side of CM, race. Second, paragraphs are your friend, it's hard to read a wall of text. Third, everything DarkSteven said. Why? B/s this woman jumps from relationship to relationship, she was in an abusive relationship and has had problems disconnecting from that, despite you and her friend(s). She was not even honest with you in the beginning. What more red flags do you need to tell you to cool your jets, leave her to get on with therapy, and be her good friend ONLY until she is ready for a relationship? You know this already, that's why you are here asking for advice. Be advised, in my opinion many doms have a messiah complex, in other words, they think they can "save" someone. This is why they are so often attracted to those damsels in distress. Once she successfully gets through therapy, you two may not be such a good fit, since she won't be in distress any longer. So if you really care about this person, take some time to explore your own motivations, and be a good dom in her life by backing off and supporting her therapy as a FRIEND (this means, no sex, no power exchange, so sorry). Best, CP

AthenaSurrenders -> RE: Recovering a submissive (5/10/2012 6:43:39 AM)
The short answer is, you can't. The long answer is, you shouldn't try. This woman has just come out of a domestic abuse relationship. She 'submitted' to him in the same sense a shopkeeper might submit to an armed robber - she had no choice, force was used, and she was trying to survive. Unfortunately domestic abuse is far more complex than robbery, and it involves cycles of reconciliation, 'honeymoon periods' and escalating abuse. Added to the fact she was already emotionally vulnerable due to marriage breakdown and perhaps didn't have anyone to discuss BDSM desires with (perhaps making her more isolated from friends and family because she was already having to be cautious about what she said) she was easy pickings for this abusive man. Abuse of this nature can cause long lasting psychological effects and have huge impact on any relationships that follow. When your self esteem is in tatters and your emotions are constantly in turmoil and you're frightened and you're alone and you're remembering that actually he did have some good qualities and he says he's sorry.... it's easy to get back into that abusive relationship (or one like it). What I'm trying to say is her behaviour has nothing to do with her submissive nature or how well he was able to dominate her, and everything to do with being an abuse victim. Just about anyone can be beaten into submission eventually (there's a reason torture is used to gain information). Get it out of your head that you are retraining her to stop submitting to him and start submitting to you. She needs to get emotionally healthy first. Six weeks is nothing. She's actually right in the danger zone where she's been away from him for long enough that she might start rationalising his behaviour and consider going back. Best thing you can do is to support her staying in therapy, build up her confidence (as a person, nothing to do with BDSM), be a friend and let her talk to you when she needs to. If you want a relationship with her I suggest you take it slowly. Also (and I hate to seem alarmist, but this is my area of work so I see this often) be aware that when this guy realises she isn't coming back there could well be further violence aimed at her or even you. That tends to be when things get really dangerous (and this guy sounds like a psycho if that story is even half true). Some safety advice wouldn't go amiss here.

kalikshama -> RE: Recovering a submissive (5/10/2012 6:56:19 AM)
quote: My issue is that my relationship with her suffered for a while Your issue is that you are thinking with your cock. Man up and behave like a human being. No D/s with her until she's ready emotionally.

poise -> RE: Recovering a submissive (5/10/2012 7:24:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: racecardriver In the last week I was able to extract some submission from her during our session, but certainly far from a level that I strive for. What exactly does this mean? She didn't suck you hard enough, or deep enough? She only let you spank her twice? It sounds to me like you have a woman who is in a very vulnerable mindset, and you want to selfishly push her limits. I hope she hasn't left a physically abusive relationship only to end up in an emotionally abusive one. Your white horse and shining armor don't entitle you to more than she can give.

LaTigresse -> RE: Recovering a submissive (5/10/2012 7:38:29 AM)
Well...............smarter people than I have already said everything I would have and a lot I hadn't yet thought of.

Alecta -> RE: Recovering a submissive (5/10/2012 11:44:54 AM)
If there is no reason for her to be attached to him except that she clearly is, the problem is her, and it is not a problem that can be easily solved. Honestly I have a problem with the "she put up with all the abuse because she'd recently discovered she was a sub and thought this is what D/s is" line of argument. Uh... no. Why? Because at that point of abuse, at any point of abuse that a person finds they cannot take, they re-evaluate themselves. A normal human being, in finding a situation unbearable, would have thought to themselves "oh I guess I'm not that after all". At which point you're faced with two possibilities: 1. That she welcomed that treatment (she keeps returning to it), and 2. That she was more obsessed with the label of sub than her own actual health and welfare. There's some kind of crazy there, tread lightly. Earlier replies also made a very very important point. If you mean to fix her, you need to stop with the D/s until she is fixed. And all the other stuff everyone else has already brought up.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Recovering a submissive (5/10/2012 11:53:24 AM)
Just walk away. You are already in a committed relationship, you have NO BUSINESS dealing with this lady until she can see herself clearly. Leave her alone to see professional counseling and put her life back together.

DomMeinCT -> RE: Recovering a submissive (5/10/2012 11:54:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama quote: My issue is that my relationship with her suffered for a while Your issue is that you are thinking with your cock. Man up and behave like a human being. No D/s with her until she's ready emotionally. I could not agree more. Any involvement you have (without a therapist's explicit okay) to "recondition" her could fuck things up worse. How about letting her heal and regroup from abuse before you (a non-professional in this) starts up.

DarkSteven -> RE: Recovering a submissive (5/10/2012 11:56:31 AM)
OMG. After Hibbie's comment, I looked at your profile. You're married. You're a doctor. This woman is headed for a flameout. You do NOT want to be in on the frenzy when it happens. Bail.

Lockit -> RE: Recovering a submissive (5/10/2012 11:57:13 AM)
Hummmm... racecardriver...so you want to save someone for your benefit or in doing so, benefit from it? You don't have what it takes to be her savior or dom. I see that as very unethical, medically unsound and selfish. You don't use someone's weakness and it is indeed a weakness she must learn, heal and overcome in and call that even a nice person. Don't you have what it takes to find a healthy person or relationship? What is going on with you that you would do this? Someone that is interested in helping someone may benefit in the feel good of helping them... but they surely DO NOT have a vested interest in the benefits. How could you expect submission or anything else from a wounded person? Dude... I can't tell you in how many ways I see this as wrong and it isn't a your kink or choice, I am slamming. It is a mental and emotional health issue and you don't have what it takes to assure further damage isn't done. [:'(]

Lockit -> RE: Recovering a submissive (5/10/2012 12:07:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven OMG. After Hibbie's comment, I looked at your profile. You're married. You're a doctor. This woman is headed for a flameout. You do NOT want to be in on the frenzy when it happens. Bail. Well shit! In that case... the chick may be very smart! News... Local doctor, foolish in all his ways... treats mistress on the side and she sues for risky behavior he ought to know better in. Film at eleven. ROFL!

MistressDarkArt -> RE: Recovering a submissive (5/10/2012 12:18:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven OMG. After Hibbie's comment, I looked at your profile. You're married. You're a doctor. This woman is headed for a flameout. You do NOT want to be in on the frenzy when it happens. Bail. ^^This + physician, heal thyself! Whether you have an agreement with your wife or not about your extracurricular activities, have you stopped to think about the drama and possible danger this damaged person, her violent boyfriend and your involvement in a highly dysfunctional dynamic might bring home to your wife? I'm not even going into the moral ground here; that's your business. But when some crazy abusive boyfriend finds out what his little chickie's been up to and with whom (and don't think he won't) you can expect the whole thing to snowball and dump right on the person who deserves it least...your disabled wife. I agree with those who said you're thinking with your dick. Kindly engage the big head for this one, doc. [8\|] <grammar edit>

LadyPact -> RE: Recovering a submissive (5/10/2012 12:54:32 PM)
Did I miss something in the profile that says the OP is a doctor? I normally don't check profiles for that kind of information, but all I saw was married and "highly professional". Another one singing the tune of the wife being ill, so that's why he's playing around on the side. No mention of the wife being aware of the extra curricular activities. See, had the OP been a doctor, he'd have absolutely no excuse for the ignorance and selfishness that is related in the original post. Any medical professional would know that anybody coming out of an abusive relationship, whether the two lived together or not, isn't the time to try to manipulate someone for the purpose of 'drawing the submission out of her' for the purposes of getting his dick wet. I would hope that someone in the medical profession would have the sense to realize that the woman's mental and emotional health has the far higher priority in the situation and the last thing she would need right now would be anything that detracts from that priority. That would include a relationship involving a cheating husband that only reinforces any low self-esteem that has been a by-product of being in a revolving door abusive relationship. Considering the location of the OP, I'm really surprised that any Dominant within the BDSM community would be starting this thread. The National Leather Association, who has worked so hard in the areas of education and information through it's Domestic Violence Project, has a chapter in that city. It would seem to Me that any ethical Dominant would provide that as a resource.

MistressDarkArt -> RE: Recovering a submissive (5/10/2012 1:01:00 PM)
LP, he lists 'licensed physician' under Skills. And OP, remember your Hippocratic oath: first, do no harm! If you can't see the 'harm' in this situation for all concerned, if you were my MD I'd fire you.

DarkSteven -> RE: Recovering a submissive (5/10/2012 1:01:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Did I miss something in the profile that says the OP is a doctor? Look at the bottom left. Skills: Licensed Physician

JanahX -> RE: Recovering a submissive (5/10/2012 1:23:10 PM)
You need to back off - why on earth would you think that its a good idea for you to be in a relationship with this woman at this time? She obviously has NO idea what a healthy relationship is, and it seems neither do you. Anyone who has brains, knows that you just dont take over and dive head on into a sexual relationship with someone who is cycling through a domestic violence situation. You should be encouraging her to get some help and some therapy. Shes fucked UP !!! AND I MIGHT BE THE FIRST ONE TO SAY THIS ---> W/ THE WHOLE MARRIED BUT MY WIFE IS ILL / IM A DOCTOR AND THE NATURE OF THIS THREAD / I CANT FORM PARAGRAPHS - I AM CALLING THIS ONE OUT - THIS SMELLS OF BULLSHIT.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Recovering a submissive (5/10/2012 1:31:01 PM)
FR Lots of useful advice already stated. And remember, just because you're a Dominant doesn't actually mean it's all about you.

OsideGirl -> RE: Recovering a submissive (5/10/2012 2:11:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven It would be best for her if she was in no relationships at all for a while ^^^ This....and the last thing she needs is to be involved with a married man.

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