RE: What is it about eastern european D/s that they can play with models in an open city?

RE: What is it about eastern european D/s that they can play with models in an open city? (Full Version)

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Ishtarr -> RE: What is it about eastern european D/s that they can play with models in an open city? (5/10/2012 6:25:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess This is fair, but are there not any laws on capturing people's images and using them for profit without their consent? I thought even bystanders had to be aware they were in a film - and I would think that the fact that it was a porn film for distribution (and not just someone's private vacation video) would make a difference. I don't claim to know - I just would have thought there would be some rules about that. I also didn't see any children as bystanders (did I just not see them?) I find it really odd that you could be out in public in a large city and that there would just be no children at all. Something about that didn't ring true to me. Again, I could be wrong. Or maybe the rules about what children can see is different there. All I can say is that if you are filming in New York good luck with being in a public place here in the daytime and not having children in strollers as bystanders. And I'm quite sure nudity in front of a child is illegal here. (And by nudity, I mean just nudity - I don't mean sexual acts). Needing people's consent before having them appear in a movie is another US thing that doesn't necessarily translate to other countries. I know of several places in (Western) Europe where any image shot in public can just be used commercially and you don't even need to inform the person in question of the fact that they'll appear in something. Aside from that, maybe they just take the risk of using the image without consent. It is after all for a niche market, and the chance the person in question would ever find out they appear in a porn is relatively small. As far as children goes. Even if a public place isn't specifically rented out to do a kink shoot, it's still fairly easy to have people on the look-out at all angles the scene can be approached from for both cops and kids. If they have people screening who is going the direction of the scene at a fairly wide parameter around, it would be fairly easy to prevent children from seeing anything. Especially in the middle of the day on a school day.

Karmastic -> RE: What is it about eastern european D/s that they can play with models in an open city? (5/10/2012 6:31:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess quote: ORIGINAL: Karmastic quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess These look like they were shot in public spaces to me, but I think I agree with graceadieu that some of these shots look like they were done in a controlled area. I, personally, didn't see children passerbys in these scenes. If there were, then clearly, the standards for what children can see is different in these countries. It did seem that actual oral/vaginal sex (i.e., real male penis inside) was all in slightly more "private" spaces within the outdoors (I didn't see a bunch of people watching the actors have sex). Penetrative play with a dildo seems to fall under a different category, as that type of play seemed to occur with unsuspecting people (or extras) walking by. But the nudity, being bound in public, being led on a leash all seem to be occurring in public spaces (although it is impossible to tell if the area was controlled - even perhaps by signs warning people that a porn shoot was being filmed). I'm not sure what the privacy laws are in these countries, but do they have the right to film a passerby as the walk past, and not have to get a signed release from them? I'm not sure everyone would be happy to be in a porn film as a passerby, even in a situation like this (especially depending on what you do professionally) - so this is also making me think there had to at least be signs up somewhere letting people know what was going on and that they were given their tacit consent to be in the film if they remained present in the area. I don't know. Maybe they don't care. Truly hard to say. i usually agree with you, but i really doubt they posted signs. this is hit and run shooting. get a shot, move on, before you get rousted by the coppers. and nudity is much more accepted elsewhere. the bus scene did seem extreme, but nothing a quick $20 to the driver couldn't handle. and did you notice, people were taking pictures. This is fair, but are there not any laws on capturing people's images and using them for profit without their consent? I thought even bystanders had to be aware they were in a film - and I would think that the fact that it was a porn film for distribution (and not just someone's private vacation video) would make a difference. I don't claim to know - I just would have thought there would be some rules about that. I also didn't see any children as bystanders (did I just not see them?) I find it really odd that you could be out in public in a large city and that there would just be no children at all. Something about that didn't ring true to me. Again, I could be wrong. Or maybe the rules about what children can see is different there. All I can say is that if you are filming in New York good luck with being in a public place here in the daytime and not having children in strollers as bystanders. And I'm quite sure nudity in front of a child is illegal here. (And by nudity, I mean just nudity - I don't mean sexual acts). i don't know about the various laws in different countries, but the general rule (at least in the U.S.) is that they can shoot without bystander consent if there's no expectation of privacy. and not sure if it's by law or just by practice to be safe - but they usually have to obtain consent to air footage of non-news or non public interest shooting. but they do (have to obtain consent) for commercial (for profit) shooting. and not necessarily written, e.g., Jay Leno audience shots. re the children, i dunno. they were probably careful. certainly in the U.S., exposing a kid to that in public could theoretically add one more charge (of contributing the the delinquency of a minor or something similar) on top of public indecent exposure and perhaps lewd conduct. i'm sure less strict outside of U.S. and perhaps the middle east.

LadyConstanze -> RE: What is it about eastern european D/s that they can play with models in an open city? (5/10/2012 6:33:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kitkat105 Those countries have very different nudity laws and are a lot more relaxed in regards to fetish porn. Would you mind giving a few links to back up that statement? Just wondering, having lived in several European countries for most of my life, I just might have missed something. And the "nudity laws" don't allow nudity everywhere, it's confined to lakes and places where people sunbathe, try walking naked through any European town and see how quickly you get arrested.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: What is it about eastern european D/s that they can play with models in an open city? (5/10/2012 7:11:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze quote: ORIGINAL: kitkat105 Those countries have very different nudity laws and are a lot more relaxed in regards to fetish porn. Would you mind giving a few links to back up that statement? Just wondering, having lived in several European countries for most of my life, I just might have missed something. And the "nudity laws" don't allow nudity everywhere, it's confined to lakes and places where people sunbathe, try walking naked through any European town and see how quickly you get arrested. The only time I've been nude in Europe was on the beach. Certainly I've never witnessed public nudity while just out and about during the daytime, but maybe I wasn't in the right countries for that. I suspect France, UK, Italy, Germany are much more like the U.S. on some of these issues as I have never encountered public nudity while simply out and about, and I've lived and worked in some of those places. Their attitudes towards what is in media is definitely different (much more nudity permissible), but public nudity - seemed the same to me, for the most part. But again, I'm sure the laws differ in every country. [&:]

Ishtarr -> RE: What is it about eastern european D/s that they can play with models in an open city? (5/10/2012 7:21:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze quote: ORIGINAL: kitkat105 Those countries have very different nudity laws and are a lot more relaxed in regards to fetish porn. Would you mind giving a few links to back up that statement? Just wondering, having lived in several European countries for most of my life, I just might have missed something. And the "nudity laws" don't allow nudity everywhere, it's confined to lakes and places where people sunbathe, try walking naked through any European town and see how quickly you get arrested. Off the top of my head in Czech Republic, Belgium, Germany, Spain and Sweden public nudity is not against the law. In some cases lewd behavior may be. But to determine what is and isn't lewd is often up to the discretion of the judge in question AFTER a complaint has been made. I've personally walked topless through Amsterdam (in the Netherlands public nudity is only legal in "appropriate places" which Amsterdam would definitely fall under [:D]) and completely naked but for a open fur coat in Belgium, both without any issues. I said hello to a cop in Belgium and he tipped his cap to me. [:)] No idea if public porn shoots would necessarily go over without arrest in any of these places, but unless an actual complaint was made it's a moot point anyways. In most all of the counties listed, naked protests or handing out flyers for an event aren't unheard of either. Swedish girls had a campaign a couple years ago where they'd hold speeds signs up but naked to encourage drivers to slow down. It made international news. In German girls often hand out flyers for the love parade naked. In Belgium and Spain there have been political protests done naked. BTW in San Francisco and Vermont there also aren't any laws on the books against public nudity.

LadyConstanze -> RE: What is it about eastern european D/s that they can play with models in an open city? (5/10/2012 7:30:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ishtarr quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze quote: ORIGINAL: kitkat105 Those countries have very different nudity laws and are a lot more relaxed in regards to fetish porn. Would you mind giving a few links to back up that statement? Just wondering, having lived in several European countries for most of my life, I just might have missed something. And the "nudity laws" don't allow nudity everywhere, it's confined to lakes and places where people sunbathe, try walking naked through any European town and see how quickly you get arrested. Off the top of my head in Czech Republic, Belgium, Germany, Spain and Sweden public nudity is not against the law. In some cases lewd behavior may be. But to determine what is and isn't lewd is often up to the discretion of the judge in question AFTER a complaint has been made. I've personally walked topless through Amsterdam (in the Netherlands public nudity is only legal in "appropriate places" which Amsterdam would definitely fall under [:D]) and completely naked but for a open fur coat in Belgium, both without any issues. I said hello to a cop in Belgium and he tipped his cap to me. [:)] No idea if public porn shoots would necessarily go over without arrest in any of these places, but unless an actual complaint was made it's a moot point anyways. BTW in San Francisco and Vermont there also aren't any laws on the books against public nudity. You may want to check the top of your head, because I can guarantee you that you'd get arrested in Germany, the term is "Erregung oeffentlichen Aergernisses" (roughly translated agitation through indecent behaviour) and if you got about 1000 Euros to spare, I recommend it. Oh wow, so you go around flashing people, something to be proud of.... I guess they all gave consent... In Amsterdam the red light district would be the appropriate place, agreed...

AngelOfSilence -> RE: What is it about eastern european D/s that they can play with models in an open city? (5/10/2012 8:30:29 PM)
Different laws.

Ishtarr -> RE: What is it about eastern european D/s that they can play with models in an open city? (5/10/2012 8:43:47 PM)
"Erregung oeffentlichen Aergernisses" refers to sexual acts in public. Not to nudity. There may be local laws saying differently, but in general, and in the big cities like Munich and Berlin, public nudity is legal in Germany. As far as consent goes, how exactly is that relevant? In both situation where I was nude in public it was perfectly legal to do so. Since when do I need consent of people in general to engage in legal behavior. The fact that it is legal is what gives me the consent in the first place, because they give consent to be exposed to public nudity by being in a place where public nudity is allowed. If they do not wish to consent to public nudity, it's their job to not be in a place where it's permissible for me to be nude. And yes, my being topless in Amsterdam was in an adult district, though not inside the red light district itself. Both times occurred late enough at night, and in a place where it was highly unlikely to encounter young children. And both times I was not being offensive to bystanders by not asking consent, because what I was doing was perfectly within my right and the scope of the law. People get exposed to all sorts of things they find annoying and offensive every single day. Tastes and opinions of what's proper and what's not vary dramatically. Are you honestly suggesting that people should ask for consent for every single thing they LEGALLY want to do that MAY offend other people? I'm very offended when I see some of the graphic anti-abortion signs that and pictures that are posted along the side of the road here. And yet, I would never in a million years dream of demanding of the people that put them there that they ask my permission to do so, because they are already in their right to do so, and it's none of my damn business. So why the hell should I ask for permission to do something that's already in my right to do?

Pyramus -> RE: What is it about eastern european D/s that they can play with models in an open city? (5/10/2012 11:02:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess Maybe they don't care. Truly hard to say. I admit to watching quite a few of those videos found in the search link. In one, there was an old gray-haired guy with his wife (presumably) at a bus or taxi stop that swatted the girl with his newspaper in a manner as to say "get out of here you bitch". Other than that, the crowds did seem to conform to what you said. I didn't see kids (maybe in the distance but I wasn't looking in the distance). The sex seemed to be in semi private places like in an empty subway station or under a bridge or at the bank of a river. The public nudity did seem to be quite out in the open. The city might be Budapest but one of the films said it was a Czech woman so maybe the Czech Republic? If the site was cordoned off, I didn't see any evidence of that (cars were whizzing by in some of them).

ster -> RE: What is it about eastern european D/s that they can play with models in an open city? (5/11/2012 12:50:25 AM)
I live in the Netherlands (Holland) and nudity is allowed only in suitable locations, i.e. established nude beaches or recreational areas. The laws are probably similar to those in the USA, but the main difference being the attitude of people. No one is going to make a complaint to the police if someone is walking around nude. We may give you a funny look and walk on but we have a more laissez-faire attitude to some things. However be warned you might get told off for dropping rubbish on the streets :) In Europe in general people grow up around nudity, I know my ex would often take my son to the nudist beach, so we don't have the same 'hang ups' most of the Americas seem to do.

LaTigresse -> RE: What is it about eastern european D/s that they can play with models in an open city? (5/11/2012 6:37:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FriendlyMuppet Wait....Star Wars wasn't real??? Exactly!! Christ on a fucking stick! Doesn't anyone have half a clue how much CGI is used in movies today??? Nearly every god damned movie made uses it. There was even a big article on one of the major news sites sometime in the last month or so. With a computer and some software, even a non genius like me can add or remove nearly anything. It makes movie making a helluva lot less expensive and easier. CGI.........it's NOT just for Star Wars!!!!

fucktoyprincess -> RE: What is it about eastern european D/s that they can play with models in an open city? (5/11/2012 10:51:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pyramus quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess Maybe they don't care. Truly hard to say. I admit to watching quite a few of those videos found in the search link. In one, there was an old gray-haired guy with his wife (presumably) at a bus or taxi stop that swatted the girl with his newspaper in a manner as to say "get out of here you bitch". Other than that, the crowds did seem to conform to what you said. I didn't see kids (maybe in the distance but I wasn't looking in the distance). The sex seemed to be in semi private places like in an empty subway station or under a bridge or at the bank of a river. The public nudity did seem to be quite out in the open. The city might be Budapest but one of the films said it was a Czech woman so maybe the Czech Republic? If the site was cordoned off, I didn't see any evidence of that (cars were whizzing by in some of them). Oh lol, missed the old guy - was he actually annoyed or was he just getting in on some spanking action [:D]

graceadieu -> RE: What is it about eastern european D/s that they can play with models in an open city? (5/11/2012 2:18:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze quote: ORIGINAL: graceadieu This. If you pay enough money (probably not much in parts of Eastern Europe), you can rent out a city block or a park or whatever, shut it down, and hire a bunch of extras for $5 to walk around and be "random people on the street". Bless your concepts of currency and what prices are in Eastern Europe, last time I checked they weren't much lower than the rest of Europe... I dunno, just based that on what people I know that've visited Budapest etc have said. shrugs They may have exaggerated somewhat. As far as the cost of extras, I read an article a while back in one of those alternative weekly papers by somebody who went to be an extra on one of these sort of shoots (in the US this time, in some bar or store or something), and I don't think they got paid anything. They interviewed the actors, too, if I recall it was actually a pretty interesting article.

subbyinlosangele -> RE: What is it about eastern european D/s that they can play with models in an open city? (5/11/2012 2:51:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Longerthanyou From another thread I was turned on to eastern european D/s porn, and in doing my 'research', I noticed with wonderment that they lead a naked model on a leash apparently in the middle of an open city. They even screw her, with many guys, while leading her about, presumably in recognizable parks and overpasses places where the authorities would have clear proof of their kinky transgressions. I don't know what city they're in, but here's just one example of kinky public sex in a european city that maybe you recognize? Here's one on an eastern european transit bus and one more example crawling down a busy city street in the middle of the day. How do they get away with open public sex apparently in the middle of busy eastern european city without being arrested? I didn't bother to check the links, but I've seen stuff like this in both foreign and US cities. Kink.com does a bunch of them. The laws on public sex vary from country to country, and place to place. It can matter whether anyone sees you. You can also rent an area and close it off and film. I imagine in some cities they simply pay off the cops to look the other way.

Longerthanyou -> RE: What is it about eastern european D/s that they can play with models in an open city? (5/11/2012 6:08:08 PM)
Looks real to me. Dunno if it _is_ real but it sure looks like random people walking up the the bound gal and snapping pictures and in some cases touching her tits.

LadyConstanze -> RE: What is it about eastern european D/s that they can play with models in an open city? (5/11/2012 11:15:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ishtarr "Erregung oeffentlichen Aergernisses" refers to sexual acts in public. Not to nudity. There may be local laws saying differently, but in general, and in the big cities like Munich and Berlin, public nudity is legal in Germany. As far as consent goes, how exactly is that relevant? In both situation where I was nude in public it was perfectly legal to do so. Since when do I need consent of people in general to engage in legal behavior. The fact that it is legal is what gives me the consent in the first place, because they give consent to be exposed to public nudity by being in a place where public nudity is allowed. If they do not wish to consent to public nudity, it's their job to not be in a place where it's permissible for me to be nude. And yes, my being topless in Amsterdam was in an adult district, though not inside the red light district itself. Both times occurred late enough at night, and in a place where it was highly unlikely to encounter young children. And both times I was not being offensive to bystanders by not asking consent, because what I was doing was perfectly within my right and the scope of the law. People get exposed to all sorts of things they find annoying and offensive every single day. Tastes and opinions of what's proper and what's not vary dramatically. Are you honestly suggesting that people should ask for consent for every single thing they LEGALLY want to do that MAY offend other people? I'm very offended when I see some of the graphic anti-abortion signs that and pictures that are posted along the side of the road here. And yet, I would never in a million years dream of demanding of the people that put them there that they ask my permission to do so, because they are already in their right to do so, and it's none of my damn business. So why the hell should I ask for permission to do something that's already in my right to do? I call bullshit, it does not have to be a sexual act and doesn't even specify it, where do you get that from? Your extended fantasies? It can be being drunk in public and/or exposing yourself, in fact exposing yourself is enough, you don't need to be sexual, walking through town naked will do that. Well, apparently you being naked is your right, but in the privacy of your own home or in the red light district... Now please do show me some laws that say you legally can flash people because you happen to be an exhibitionist? If you're looking for customers, fine, but that's why most European countries have red light districts for, and I hope you are doing well there... Unfortunately what you want has nothing to do with the law, and apparently you know fuck all about the law. People in Europe are in general far more relaxed about nudity, but it has to be in the appropriate place like a beach, we really don't need to see your tits and other bits in town or a shopping center, most might not call the cops, but that doesn't mean that it is your right to flash your bits. The fact that you haven't been arrested is most likely due to people feeling sorry for you or thinking you are so hard up for clients that you need to take desperate measures - again feeling sorry for you - but not your legal right. Your legal right is to strip bare on a clothing optional beach or in your own property, but not standing at the window flashing others.

LadyConstanze -> RE: What is it about eastern european D/s that they can play with models in an open city? (5/11/2012 11:21:27 PM)
Oh and as for your "nudity is legal in the big cities like Munich and Berlin" bunch of BS again, worked in the media there and while doing a radio show and raffling off tickets for a nudist beach holiday I thought it was a good idea to say the first person who shows up naked at the station got the tickets, it got me a massive fine for encouraging "erregung oeffentlichen aergernisses" and nope, I didn't ask for them to engage in lewd acts...But I guess you know better and in case the law was wrong and you disagree, I can send you my bank details, I could use the 5K (and that is Euros as in real money and not $) - I am sure you will gladly refund me...

kitkat105 -> RE: What is it about eastern european D/s that they can play with models in an open city? (5/11/2012 11:39:52 PM)
When we went to Kink, they did say they went overseas to film most of the 'public disgrace' scenes. Although the Armory is big enough to virtually set up their own realistic looking public areas!

MrBukani -> RE: What is it about eastern european D/s that they can play with models in an open city? (5/12/2012 12:00:18 AM)
Had to google a bit but you find it, I already knew. Favorite our site for daily updates of free public sex photos. ... Top rated pay-sites, currently the best Public porn. ... Public Disgrace, 90.5, $29.95 .... quality action from the streets of Czech cities and in public spaces like bathrooms and buses. Czechs have been big in the porn biz for quite some time now.

LadyConstanze -> RE: What is it about eastern european D/s that they can play with models in an open city? (5/12/2012 12:04:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kitkat105 When we went to Kink, they did say they went overseas to film most of the 'public disgrace' scenes. Although the Armory is big enough to virtually set up their own realistic looking public areas! Yeah, and how difficult is it with modern technology to film a street scene and just insert "actors"? The laws regarding background are more lax, also filming porn in private, look at the bystanders in the "movie" - you think anybody would just look and walk on? No police?

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