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submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/10/2012 2:03:25 PM

Hisfungrl

Posts: 15
Joined: 5/10/2012
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Does being submissive mean you have to lay down and take S&@% from A/anyone? NO...absolutely not. Being submissive doesn't mean you are a doormat, or you are spineless. In fact, some of my "subbie" friends are as fiesty as any i know. i think it's sometimes a misconception when new to the lifestyle, especially for new and un-owned subs...and even more so when confronted with a a Dom/me.

Learning to say "no" and even "back off" are two of the things i try to impart to newer members of our community. Its one thing to be in a commited relationship with a Dom/me and have an understanding of behavior...it's a totally different story for every dominant out there to expect you to "take it lying down" so to speak (pardon the pun)...

This does not mean being a "bratty" sub is something i subscribe to...i find it disrespectful and attention seeking.

Would love to hear your thoughts everyone...

Post #: 1

RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/10/2012 2:09:28 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14442
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
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Personally, I've been told by a lot of "D" types that I'm not submissive because of my views. I long ago came to the understanding that it takes a very special man to make me feel submissive....and his opinion is the only one that matters.

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RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/10/2012 2:29:53 PM

RumpusParable

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Bad over-used cliche is bad over-used cliche.

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RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/10/2012 2:35:22 PM

JanahX

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Joined: 8/21/2010
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I guess I just dont understand this whole concept of doormat or being weak or whatever - The way I always viewed it, is that the D type has to have a stronger personality than I do - smarter, faster, wiser

- I wouldnt submit to some fucking idiot who just because he said he was Dom - And this is the type of guy that would be looking for a doormat.
But - as many idiot Doms out there.. there are just as many idiot subs - so I guess thats what I would call a perfect match.

< Message edited by JanahX -- 5/10/2012 3:17:15 PM >

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RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/10/2012 2:43:48 PM

LadyPact

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I think anybody who finds themselves having to tell people repeatedly what is being related in the OP needs to ask themselves why they aren't providing enough education and/or support in their local community. Is there an orientation for your new members for your activities? Are you sharing resources, books, and reputable links for these new submissives to get more information about the lifestyle? Are these problems evident at your munches and play parties or is it about cyber Doms on the net?

If the original is something that is being run into time and time again, something is wrong at the local level.

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RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/10/2012 2:54:24 PM

Hisfungrl

Posts: 15
Joined: 5/10/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
I long ago came to the understanding that it takes a very special man to make me feel submissive....and his opinion is the only one that matters.

i agree with this, i always say someone has to ellicit my submission, a personality that makes me crave His control.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 6

RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/10/2012 2:55:48 PM

Hisfungrl

Posts: 15
Joined: 5/10/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I think anybody who finds themselves having to tell people repeatedly what is being related in the OP needs to ask themselves why they aren't providing enough education and/or support in their local community. Is there an orientation for your new members for your activities? Are you sharing resources, books, and reputable links for these new submissives to get more information about the lifestyle? Are these problems evident at your munches and play parties or is it about cyber Doms on the net?

If the original is something that is being run into time and time again, something is wrong at the local level.

mostly an issue of people getting their feet wet online, and yes W/we always offer vast amount of reading material and resources...just an issue of the revolving online door presenting the same problem with different people. All you can do is educate one at a time...

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 7

RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/10/2012 2:59:25 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

eehh...I admit I'm a doormat for some people. It's just my personality. I'm not saying it's that way for everyone but I do admit that some people are simply stronger than I am. Am I a doormat for Master? Yup...iin the literal sense and otherwise lol.

I know it's the popular to say "yeah I'm strong and don't take shit from anyone" but I'm not going to say that because it's simply not true. I do take shit from some people. Is it always easy? No, but I like being who I am and sometimes that's who I am.

Now if we're strictly talking online, then I don't see it as even being relevant. There's these little buttons on my computer that say delete and ignore/hide. They work really really well.

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RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/10/2012 3:12:06 PM

Karmastic

Posts: 1650
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From: Los Angeles
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to each their own. i agree being sub doesn't mean being a doormat. someone else in another thread was describing the difference between a sub and a slave. i think the more autonomy you give up, the closer you become to a slave. but unless the life/play/scenes are built on humiliation, to me that still doesn't have to equate to being a doormat.

from a dom POV, i don't think you have to treat your sub/slave as a doormat. i think that speaks more to the dom's insecurity than anything else.

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Post #: 9

RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/10/2012 3:53:19 PM

ResidentSadist

Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
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-=Define Doormat=-
Per your spineless comment, what is a doormat? Is a doormat defined by actions or personality?

By action
If by action, in general, a doormat usually means someone that unquestioningly obeys which equates to spineless in some people's minds. When people impose doormat to use the term as an insult, they propose that obedience is out of stupidity, insecurity or some other “flaw”. Rarely do they propose obedience is a result of trust and confidence in one’s self and partner. People with a strong personality can choose the role of a slave out of acute self-awareness, prowess and confidence. More than one ex-Domme has become a slave. Those good qualities are something the derogatory use of doormat seems to have missed.

By personality
A submissive who wants to be dehumanized, wants the freedom becoming an object gives them. Whether it is to slip the bonds of their conditioning for the sexual freedoms or emotional freedoms objectification gives, it is a valid and effective construct. Why live half a life as a constrained human when you can find freedom as a piggy, pony or doormat?

No difference
As above, I imagine it depends how you define a doormat. For me, I love my doormats, piggies, ponies and pets. I don’t see a difference. I respect and appreciate all the aspects of a good doormat or pet.

-=Ode to My Doormat=- (Forgive the reprint)
I am tired of the prejudice against doormats. I love my doormat and it performs a vital function in my house. It is decorative and pretty to look at. It says “welcome” to my guests and makes them feel I care about them by having one. It shows respect for my house by letting you wipe your feet on it if they are dirty. It even dries your feet when they are wet. My house and my porch just wouldn’t be the same without a good doormat! Metaphorically I feel the same way about my slave(s).

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 10

RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/10/2012 4:20:04 PM

DarkSteven

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Joined: 5/2/2008
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1. Until we are in a relationship, I am not your Dom, you are not my sub, and you have no obligation to submit to me. As a matter of fact, it would be a faux pas for you to do so, and a greater error for me to expect it.

2. Once the relationship is established, if we choose to make it Dom/sub, Master/slave, or Mat-Owner/doormat, that's our choice and nobody else's business.

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Post #: 11

RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/10/2012 4:24:43 PM

ResidentSadist

Posts: 12580
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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
. . . Dom/sub, Master/slave, or Mat-Owner/doormat, that's our choice and nobody else's business.

I love your mind. I think CM should add a new Orientation category.

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Post #: 12

RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/10/2012 4:34:55 PM

mummyman321

Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I think anybody who finds themselves having to tell people repeatedly what is being related in the OP needs to ask themselves why they aren't providing enough education and/or support in their local community. Is there an orientation for your new members for your activities? Are you sharing resources, books, and reputable links for these new submissives to get more information about the lifestyle? Are these problems evident at your munches and play parties or is it about cyber Doms on the net?

If the original is something that is being run into time and time again, something is wrong at the local level.

LadyP
You have Cmail

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Post #: 13

RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/10/2012 8:34:00 PM

Hisfungrl

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Joined: 5/10/2012
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nice to see people take themselves WAY too seriously here too...

WANTING to be dehumanized or to have the freedom of being an object is completely different than being expected to be simply due to an orientation. Simple observation of continued assumptions of people who identify loosely and/or strongly with a submissive role.

DarkSteven...i completely agree what happens within the bounds of a relationship is hte business of the T/two involved. If You read my post, i'm referring mostly to new members of the community encountering this type of assumption, i even refer to it being something completely different to be involved in a relationship with an understanding already lined out.

(in reply to mummyman321)

Post #: 14

RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/10/2012 8:39:14 PM

TNDommeK

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Joined: 3/13/2010
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RS I think your adoration for your door mat is something to be admired. DS, you are awesome, that is all.

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Post #: 15

RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/10/2012 9:38:39 PM

myotherself

Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline

Last week, Master called me a doormat.

To begin with I was really annoyed, and then I started to think about it.

To me, a doormat is someone who obeys unquestioningly and will do anything to please. Even sacrificing their own wants/needs to achieve this.

Master and I have been together for 2 years. We've grown to know and trust each other. He understands me very well and I absolutely trust him to make the right decisions for me/us. So if he tells me to do something, I do it. No question. Because I know I can trust him.

I guess that makes me his doormat. But then again, to me that's what my slavery is supposed to be.

In the outside world it's a different situation. Someone tells me to do something that I don't agree with, then I will tell them. And I will say no, and I will argue my position, vehemently if needs be.

But back to the intent of the OP - what's wrong with a sub/slave being a doormat? For some, that's the way their personality works. They want to please and it makes them happy to do so. It is nobody's business but their own who they please, and how they do it.

I think sometimes we can be too judgmental about the form others' submission can take.

Embrace your inner doormat, that's what I say!

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Post #: 16

RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/10/2012 11:11:23 PM

ResidentSadist

Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline

I truly do not agree with your assessment or use of the term doormat. Your desire to negotiate inspires you to impart your perspective to newcomers and sharing perspectives is good thing. But do you also impart the alternative TPE, M/s 24/7 perspectives of obedience? If not, you're being biased and imposing your judgement, your preferred style of negotiated submission onto others. It is fine to say that you aren't a doormat and these things aren't for you. But you say submission does not equal doormat . . . yet for some, I bet it does. By judging them, you are missing out on a lot. Slaves or doormats that obey are no better or worse than you. They just choose a different path. Judging them derogatorily is close minded as you will learn by the replies in this thread.

Some newcomers will make great slaves in M/s, some will make great submissives in D/s. There is even a place in this lifestyle for attention seeking brats. It's different strokes for different folks.

The good news is that you are self aware enough to know what you like. Often it is more of a battle find out what you need than it is to get what you need once you know what it is. In this aspect, I wish you and yours the best in your journey through life.

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Post #: 17

RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/10/2012 11:26:37 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hisfungrl

Does being submissive mean you have to lay down and take S&@% from A/anyone? NO...absolutely not. Being submissive doesn't mean you are a doormat, or you are spineless. In fact, some of my "subbie" friends are as fiesty as any i know. i think it's sometimes a misconception when new to the lifestyle, especially for new and un-owned subs...and even more so when confronted with a a Dom/me.

Learning to say "no" and even "back off" are two of the things i try to impart to newer members of our community. Its one thing to be in a commited relationship with a Dom/me and have an understanding of behavior...it's a totally different story for every dominant out there to expect you to "take it lying down" so to speak (pardon the pun)...

This does not mean being a "bratty" sub is something i subscribe to...i find it disrespectful and attention seeking.

Would love to hear your thoughts everyone...

But what if someone is naturally wired that way, and happy being so? In such cases, how is telling them they are wrong for being who they are, a good thing?

Here's the thing - we're all grown up adults on this site, and we all have the freedom to be who we are. That means we get to choose how we respond to others in whatever form we are comfortable. To you and I that would mean not automatically submitting to anyone just because they identified as dominant. To someone else it *would* mean that.

Doormats, brats, serious, liaise faire, assertive, strong, weak - there is a place for everyone, whether you subscribe to the behavior or not.

Who are we to tell them they're wrong for being who they are? Seems a bit patronizing to me.

< Message edited by NuevaVida -- 5/10/2012 11:27:36 PM >

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RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/10/2012 11:33:03 PM

Alecta

Posts: 1355
Joined: 1/19/2010
Status: offline

quote:

Does being submissive mean you have to lay down and take S&****% from A/anyone? NO...absolutely not

Agreed. But being a doormat does. Otherwise, you're just some piece of low-grade scratchy carpet.

(in reply to Hisfungrl)

Post #: 19

RE: submissive does NOT equal doormat!!! - 5/11/2012 4:54:42 AM

Sonunda

Posts: 2
Joined: 10/16/2011
Status: offline

In my own experience: I'm someone who enjoys making others happy, even at times if it was to my own detriment. In what I thought was my first d/s relationship I pretty much was a doormat. I had moved in with the guy and if things weren't going his he would constantly threaten to kick me out. I think his definition of being dominant was to be verbally abusive. It took me a while to figure out that he was lying to me about pretty much everything and that I deserved better than that. The strange part was that when everything was going really wrong, I spent more and more time at the gym to get away from him so I lost weight. After it ended he said if I looked like I do now as I did at the beginning of our relationship he never would have gone for me. Talk about being insecure.

I know my current relationship would have some people think I'm crazy because he is technically old enough to be my father, but the truth is he makes me happier than I've been in a long time. And made me realize I needed therapy to not only to work through the verbal abuse in my prior relationship as well as him having raped me when helping me move out, but to help me come to terms with my D/S.

In the end I realized I can be someone who enjoys pleasing people, but at the same time be able to draw the line as to what is acceptable expectations for others to have of me. I'm back to my old sassy self that I was prior to the verbally abusive relationship with the added bonus that my current master appreciates my wit and intelligence and also encourages me to keep up with my healthy habits at the gym.

(in reply to Alecta)

Post #: 20

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