quote:

The pro-fetus brigade that is the Republican party is screaming, drooling and rabid about life beginning at conception. They get right in our face, or type at you all in caps, that GOD’S own book, the bible, says life begins at conception. Guess what? It doesn’t.

My good friend, Sheila, is smart, wise, funny and driven to expose lies on the right. She gave me a bit of an internet slap in the face a few days ago when she reminded me of a little passage in Genesis about the breath of life. The passage reads that

quote:

God “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and it was then that the man became a living being.”

The bible actually has quite a lot to say on the subject of the breath of life. Here are a few more passages that illustrate when life begins.

quote:

Job 33:4-“The spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.”

quote:

Ezekiel 37: 5&6- “Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. And I shall lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live; and you shall know that I am the Lord.”

...why does the pro-fetus brigade believe life begins at conception, when their own holy book says quite the opposite?

One thing I have been told is that a fetus breathes while in the womb. Um, no it doesn’t actually. While in the womb, a fetus receives oxygen from the umbilical cord, and the first breath is not taken until birth. You know how the OBGYN makes the newborn cry? That’s usually the first breath. While floating in amniotic fluid, the fetus does not breathe. It’s liquid.

We see billboards all over our county that read “My heart beat 17 days after conception!” and “I can dream!” First, a fetal heartbeat cannot be detected until, at the earliest, 5 ½-6 ½ weeks after conception, and only via ultrasound. Second, “directly measuring the brain activity of a human fetus in the womb is impossible” according to an article at Science Daily.com. Researchers have noted REM-like stages, but to actually measure dreams is not possible.

Huh. The Bible says life begins with “breath,” the first breath is taken AFTER being born, fetal heartbeats are detected much later than the pro-fetus brigade claims and it’s impossible to measure the brain activity of a human fetus in the womb. It seems, at least to this pro-choice mother, that the pro-fetus brigade has absolutely no frigging idea what they’re talking about.

quote:

Aw, fuck, I thought the Bible says a mans life begins at his first blowjob.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BurntKitty

You're all wrong. Life begins with the first person spinning the wheel & deciding on the career or college route. Sheesh.

[image]http://www.museumofplay.org/blog/play-stuff/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Game-of-Life-board.jpg[/image]

quote:

ORIGINAL: BurntKitty

You're all wrong. Life begins with the first person spinning the wheel & deciding on the career or college route. Sheesh.

[image]http://www.museumofplay.org/blog/play-stuff/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Game-of-Life-board.jpg[/image]

quote:

You're all wrong. Life begins with the first person spinning the wheel & deciding on the career or college route. Sheesh.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

At the end of the day, these debates based on what is written in the Bible (or any religion's "writings") will always fall victim to how people choose to interpret what is written. Thus, these debates are endless.

An interesting point to note is that the gospels/religious writings as written down actually had portions that contradicted each other. So when they came up with what people today consider the "Bible", it was actually a cut and paste job from a variety of sources where they either threw out contradictory statements entirely, or arbitrarily chose one statement as being "the definitive one" even though other writings were contradictory. So ultimately the issue is that the Bible was not written by god, the text was agreed upon at a certain point in history and is now interpreted as if it is the word of god (conveniently ignoring the fact that not everything made it in).

Writings became "outside" because:

Some ancient texts were considered authoritative but were dropped before the canon was "closed."
Some well-regarded books were written too late and/or not believed to be apostolic, so they were not included. Nevertheless some outside books, such as the Didache, are as old or even older than some of the books that made the New Testament.
Other books were accepted by some Christian communities but not others.
Sometimes: they were labeled "heretical" by more powerful Christian groups like Rome
they were not popular or known well enough by Greek-speaking Christians
Still other books never came close to making it "inside.". In addition to heretical books that were excluded, other books were considered to be too outrageous, even though they were very popular. (These books also tended to be written much later than canonical books)
A number of books were lost or destroyed.
Some old writers were never considered as scripture but have historical value; they may be letters, or histories, or stories, or other kinds of records.

So my feeling is over reliance on the text is probably not the right way to go. That strict literal interpretation of the Bible has become so popular is a bit of a joke considering the above about how the Bible was a cut and paste job.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic
great points about how it can be interpreted differently.

and, further compounded by it not really being the word of g*d. i think you're alluding to the council of Nicea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

where they picked and chose which books to include in the bible.

similar concept in the first testament, with the Talmud being a written ongoing debate, driving interpretation.

getting back to the OP - sorry, not disrespect, but this is all BS - the Christians, and trying to use a biblical argument for why they're wrong.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
Sadly, a great number of people are actually completely unaware of the actual origins of the text that they call the Bible. How is it even possible to discuss this rationally with people who literally believe that the Bible came to them from god in exactly the form it is now? (Is this what people mean by leap of faith? Haha)

I've even had an argument with someone who did not believe the Bible was first written in Greek. [&:]

I think if one is going to be religious this is all well and good, but believers must at least try for some honesty about their own religious history. It is no coincidence that the faiths that choose to ignore their actual history are inevitably the ones that cause the rest of us such grief.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic
i think both sides of this argument are absurd. one depends on a fairy tale about god, and the other builds on that absurd wording regarding "breath".

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic
i think both sides of this argument are absurd. one depends on a fairy tale about god, and the other builds on that absurd wording regarding "breath".

In this argument both sides depend on a fairy tale about god.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

The Holy Bible: Life begins at first breath

quote:

The pro-fetus brigade that is the Republican party is screaming, drooling and rabid about life beginning at conception. They get right in our face, or type at you all in caps, that GOD’S own book, the bible, says life begins at conception. Guess what? It doesn’t.

My good friend, Sheila, is smart, wise, funny and driven to expose lies on the right. She gave me a bit of an internet slap in the face a few days ago when she reminded me of a little passage in Genesis about the breath of life. The passage reads that

quote:

God “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and it was then that the man became a living being.”

The bible actually has quite a lot to say on the subject of the breath of life. Here are a few more passages that illustrate when life begins.

quote:

Job 33:4-“The spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.”

quote:

Ezekiel 37: 5&6- “Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. And I shall lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live; and you shall know that I am the Lord.”

...why does the pro-fetus brigade believe life begins at conception, when their own holy book says quite the opposite?

One thing I have been told is that a fetus breathes while in the womb. Um, no it doesn’t actually. While in the womb, a fetus receives oxygen from the umbilical cord, and the first breath is not taken until birth. You know how the OBGYN makes the newborn cry? That’s usually the first breath. While floating in amniotic fluid, the fetus does not breathe. It’s liquid.

We see billboards all over our county that read “My heart beat 17 days after conception!” and “I can dream!” First, a fetal heartbeat cannot be detected until, at the earliest, 5 ½-6 ½ weeks after conception, and only via ultrasound. Second, “directly measuring the brain activity of a human fetus in the womb is impossible” according to an article at Science Daily.com. Researchers have noted REM-like stages, but to actually measure dreams is not possible.

Huh. The Bible says life begins with “breath,” the first breath is taken AFTER being born, fetal heartbeats are detected much later than the pro-fetus brigade claims and it’s impossible to measure the brain activity of a human fetus in the womb. It seems, at least to this pro-choice mother, that the pro-fetus brigade has absolutely no frigging idea what they’re talking about.

quote:

Why would you want to question....moreover.....slam someone's beliefs?

People have valid reasons to believe what they do....

quote:

well the OP is a great demonstration of typical american illiteracy.