RE: Oh, No! Romney seven points ahead in todays Rassmussen Poll? (Full Version)

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Musicmystery -> RE: Oh, No! Romney seven points ahead in todays Rassmussen Poll? (5/12/2012 10:17:39 AM)

And from the guy YOUR SOURCE cites for their data:

Rasmussen Polls Were Biased and Inaccurate; Quinnipiac, SurveyUSA Performed Strongly
By NATE SILVER

Every election cycle has its winners and losers: not just the among the candidates, but also the pollsters.

On Tuesday, polls conducted by the firm Rasmussen Reports — which released more than 100 surveys in the final three weeks of the campaign, including some commissioned under a subsidiary on behalf of Fox News — badly missed the margin in many states, and also exhibited a considerable bias toward Republican candidates.

Other polling firms, like SurveyUSA and Quinnipiac University, produced more reliable results in Senate and gubernatorial races. A firm that conducts surveys by Internet, YouGov, also performed relatively well.

What follows is a preliminary analysis of polls released to the public in the final 21 days of the campaign. Our process here is quite simple: we’ve taken all such polls in our database, and assessed how accurate they were, on average, in predicting the margin separating the two leading candidates in each race. For instance, a poll that had the Democrat winning by 2 percentage points in a race where the Republican actually won by 4 would have an error of 6 points.

We’ve also assessed whether a company’s polls consistently missed in either a Democratic or Republican direction — that is, whether they were biased. The hypothetical poll I just described would have had a 6 point Democratic bias, for instance.

The analysis covers all polls issued by firms in the final three weeks of the campaign, even if a company surveyed a particular state multiple times. In our view, this provides for a more comprehensive analysis than focusing solely on a firm’s final poll in each state, since polling has a tendency to converge in the final days of the campaign, perhaps because some firms fear that their results are an outlier and adjust them accordingly.

(After a couple of weeks, when results in all races have been certified, we’ll update our official pollster ratings, which use a more advanced process that attempts to account, for instance, for the degree of difficulty in polling different types of races.)

The 105 polls released in Senate and gubernatorial races by Rasmussen Reports and its subsidiary, Pulse Opinion Research, missed the final margin between the candidates by 5.8 points, a considerably higher figure than that achieved by most other pollsters. Some 13 of its polls missed by 10 or more points, including one in the Hawaii Senate race that missed the final margin between the candidates by 40 points, the largest error ever recorded in a general election in FiveThirtyEight’s database, which includes all polls conducted since 1998.

Moreover, Rasmussen’s polls were quite biased, overestimating the standing of the Republican candidate by almost 4 points on average. In just 12 cases, Rasmussen’s polls overestimated the margin for the Democrat by 3 or more points. But it did so for the Republican candidate in 55 cases — that is, in more than half of the polls that it issued.

If one focused solely on the final poll issued by Rasmussen Reports or Pulse Opinion Research in each state — rather than including all polls within the three-week interval — it would not have made much difference. Their average error would be 5.7 points rather than 5.8, and their average bias 3.8 points rather than 3.9.

Nor did it make much difference whether the polls were branded as Rasmussen Reports surveys, or instead, were commissioned for Fox News by its subsidiary Pulse Opinion Research. (Both sets of surveys used an essentially identical methodology.) Polls branded as Rasmussen Reports missed by an average of 5.9 points and had a 3.9 point bias. The polls it commissioned on behalf of Fox News had a 5.1 point error, and a 3.6 point bias.

Rasmussen’s polls have come under heavy criticism throughout this election cycle, including from FiveThirtyEight. We have critiqued the firm for its cavalier attitude toward polling convention. Rasmussen, for instance, generally conducts all of its interviews during a single, 4-hour window; speaks with the first person it reaches on the phone rather than using a random selection process; does not call cellphones; does not call back respondents whom it misses initially; and uses a computer script rather than live interviewers to conduct its surveys. These are cost-saving measures which contribute to very low response rates and may lead to biased samples.

Rasmussen also weights their surveys based on preordained assumptions about the party identification of voters in each state, a relatively unusual practice that many polling firms consider dubious since party identification (unlike characteristics like age and gender) is often quite fluid.

Rasmussen’s polls — after a poor debut in 2000 in which they picked the wrong winner in 7 key states in that year’s Presidential race — nevertheless had performed quite strongly in in 2004 and 2006. And they were about average in 2008. But their polls were poor this year.

The discrepancies between Rasmussen Reports polls and those issued by other companies were apparent from virtually the first day that Barack Obama took office. Rasmussen showed Barack Obama’s disapproval rating at 36 percent, for instance, just a week after his inauguration, at a point when no other pollster had that figure higher than 20 percent.

Rasmussen Reports has rarely provided substantive responses to criticisms about its methodology. At one point, Scott Rasmussen, president of the company, suggested that the differences it showed were due to its use of a likely voter model. A FiveThirtyEight analysis, however, revealed that its bias was at least as strong in polls conducted among all adults, before any model of voting likelihood had been applied.

Some of the criticisms have focused on the fact that Mr. Rasmussen is himself a conservative — the same direction in which his polls have generally leaned — although he identifies as an independent rather than Republican. In our view, that is somewhat beside the point. What matters, rather, is that the methodological shortcuts that the firm takes may now be causing it to pay a price in terms of the reliability of its polling.

*-*

The table below presents results for the eight companies in FiveThirtyEight’s database that released at least 10 polls of gubernatorial and Senate contests into the public domain in the final three weeks of the campaign, and which were active in at least two states.

The most accurate surveys were those issued by Quinnipiac University, which missed the final margin between the candidates by 3.3 points, and which showed little overall bias.

The next-best result was from SurveyUSA, which is among the highest-rated firms in FiveThirtyEight’s pollster rankings: it missed the margin between the candidates by 3.5 points, on average.

SurveyUSA also issued polls in a number of U.S. House races, missing the margin between the candidates by an average of 5.2 points. That is a comparatively good score: individual U.S. House races are generally quite difficult to poll, and the typical poll issued by companies other than SurveyUSA had missed the margin between the candidates by an average of 7.3 points.

In some of the house races that it polled, SurveyUSA’s results had been more Republican-leaning than those of other pollsters. But it turned out that it had the right impression in most of those races — anticipating, for instance, that the Democratic incumbent Jim Oberstar could easily lose his race, as he eventually did.

YouGov, which conducts its surveys through Internet panels, also performed fairly well, missing the eventual margin by 3.5 points on average — although it confined its polling to a handful of swing races, in which polling is generally easier because of high levels of voter engagement.

Other polling firms that joined Rasmussen toward the bottom of the chart were Marist College, whose polls also had a notable Republican bias, and CNN/Opinion Research, whose polls missed by almost 5 points on average. Their scores are less statistically meaningful than that for Rasmussen Reports, however, because they had only released surveys in 14 and 17 races, respectively, as compared to Rasmussen’s 105 polls.




RacerJim -> RE: Oh, No! Romney seven points ahead in todays Rassmussen Poll? (5/12/2012 10:18:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Rasmussen says that this below is the top 10 in things Americans think are important as of today.



[image]local://upfiles/664494/048D6BE694D74537B5E371D8CAA7A9A7.jpg[/image]



http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/importance_of_issues

I don't see gay marriage anywhere. Red herring?

Same-sex marriage is indeed a red herring...on Obummer's part. The only chance in hell he stands of being re-elected is to throw out one red herring after the other...anything/everything to stay away from his ALL TOO OBVIOUSLY FAILED economic policies...and HOPE and PRAY something sticks.

"If you have no record to run on, you paint your opponent as someone to run from." -- Barack Hussein Obama, 2008




Musicmystery -> RE: Oh, No! Romney seven points ahead in todays Rassmussen Poll? (5/12/2012 10:20:28 AM)

If it's a red herring, it's one the right put into play a decade ago.

Silly, but karma. That genie's out of the bottle.

Maybe it's time for long term planning and solutions instead.




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Oh, No! Romney seven points ahead in todays Rassmussen Poll? (5/12/2012 10:25:58 AM)

 
And yet... despite all your haranguing, Rasmussen was THE MOST ACCURATE -- according to YOUR source?!!

Gee... imagine that?!! [sm=rofl.gif] LOL ! ! !





MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Oh, No! Romney seven points ahead in todays Rassmussen Poll? (5/12/2012 10:32:56 AM)

[:D]

[image]local://upfiles/687741/BAE3681636AB45D3813C410F210B571A.jpg[/image]




whatisthewhat -> RE: Oh, No! Romney seven points ahead in todays Rassmussen Poll? (5/12/2012 10:34:41 AM)

I am not at all worried about Barack Obama's ability to win the 2012 election. The Reblicans have shown their true colors: Inability to provide solutions to the nation's problems, focus on marginal social issues, Mitt Romney's first name is not intelligible as a first name. Regardless of what some imagined poll says, Obama has nothing to worry about, including his stance on gay marriage. Anyone who decides his/her vote on that one issue is an idiot




Musicmystery -> RE: Oh, No! Romney seven points ahead in todays Rassmussen Poll? (5/12/2012 10:36:00 AM)

Given your insistence on ignoring the many facts given here--not even to refute, but simply ignore, and to refuse to consider your data in context, I think that may be the defining image here, yes.

I'm going to go do grown-up things now. Play nice with the other kids. No hitting.




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Oh, No! Romney seven points ahead in todays Rassmussen Poll? (5/12/2012 10:36:08 AM)

Once again... from YOUR source. (GASP!!!)


[image]local://upfiles/687741/C67871E0E78C4815BCB9D913CB282E7B.jpg[/image]




ModTwentyOne -> RE: Oh, No! Romney seven points ahead in todays Rassmussen Poll? (5/12/2012 11:05:39 AM)

FR~

It is unclear to me why someone would think it okay to load pictures of children here, so to be very clear:  IT IS NOT OKAY AND THEY HAVE BEEN REMOVED.





Theon38 -> RE: Oh, No! Romney seven points ahead in todays Rassmussen Poll? (5/12/2012 12:06:16 PM)

quote:

In spite of the President "evolving" into a pro same sex marrage kinda guy


Not in spite of, because of.

Every State that has voted on traditional marriage has approved it. Not just States that Obama won in 2008, like North Carolina. When Obama won California in 2008, California also passed a constitutional amendment to make marriage between 1 man and 1 woman. Besides Christianity in this nation, there are many other religions, like Jews and Muslims, that typically vote for Democrats but are also opposed to same sex marriage. The middle east loves Obama, just imagine how they are going to react to this news once they have it translated for them.

I think the polling will continue to go Romney's way, not in spite of Obama's views on gay marriage, but because of them.




Musicmystery -> RE: Oh, No! Romney seven points ahead in todays Rassmussen Poll? (5/12/2012 12:28:57 PM)

Not according to this Republican pollster:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/12/republican-pollster-gop-same-sex-marriage?newsfeed=true

Here's the memo's text and the talking points:

Background: In view of this week’s news on the same sex marriage issue, here is a summary of recent survey findings on same sex marriage:

1. Support for same sex marriage has been growing and in the last few years support has grown at an accelerated rate with no sign of slowing down. A review of public polling shows that up to 2009 support for gay marriage increased at a rate of 1% a year. Starting in 2010 the change in the level of support accelerated to 5% a year. The most recent public polling shows supporters of gay marriage outnumber opponents by a margin of roughly 10% (for instance: NBC / WSJ poll in February / March: support 49%, oppose 40%).

2. The increase in support is taking place among all partisan groups. While more Democrats support gay marriage than Republicans, support levels among Republicans are increasing over time. The same is true of age: younger people support same sex marriage more often than older people, but the trends show that all age groups are rethinking their position.

3. Polling conducted among Republicans show that majorities of Republicans and Republican leaning voters support extending basic legal protections to gays and lesbians. These include majority Republican support for:

Protecting gays and lesbians against being fired for reasons of sexual orientation
Protections against bullying and harassment
Repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell.
Right to visit partners in hospitals
Protecting partners against loss of home in case of severe medical emergencies or death
Legal protection in some form for gay couples whether it be same sex marriage or domestic partnership (only 29% of Republicans oppose legal recognition in any form).

Recommendation: A statement reflecting recent developments on this issue along the following lines:

“People who believe in equality under the law as a fundamental principle, as I do, will agree that this principle extends to gay and lesbian couples; gay and lesbian couples should not face discrimination and their relationship should be protected under the law. People who disagree on the fundamental nature of marriage can agree, at the same time, that gays and lesbians should receive essential rights and protections such as hospital visitation, adoption rights, and health and death benefits.

Other thoughts / Q&A:

Follow up to questions about affirmative action: “This is not about giving anyone extra protections or privileges, this is about making sure that everyone – regardless of sexual orientation – is provided the same protections against discrimination that you and I enjoy.”

Why public attitudes might be changing: “As more people have become aware of friends and family members who are gay, attitudes have begun to shift at an accelerated pace. This is not about a generational shift in attitudes, this is about people changing their thinking as they recognize their friends and family members who are gay or lesbian.”

Conservative fundamentals: “As people who promote personal responsibility, family values, commitment and stability, and emphasize freedom and limited government we have to recognize that freedom means freedom for everyone. This includes the freedom to decide how you live and to enter into relationships of your choosing, the freedom to live without excessive interference of the regulatory force of government.


Read more: http://www.towleroad.com/#ixzz1ugZAwiKA




truckinslave -> RE: Oh, No! Romney seven points ahead in todays Rassmussen Poll? (5/14/2012 10:57:32 AM)

quote:

I don't see gay marriage anywhere. Red herring?


Can you possibly fail to see the irony here?




Owner59 -> RE: Oh, No! Romney seven points ahead in todays Rassmussen Poll? (5/14/2012 11:12:20 AM)

The only poll that matters is on November 6th.Sorry if that`s already been pointed out.



Even the cons aren`t happy with their horse.[:D]




Musicmystery -> RE: Oh, No! Romney seven points ahead in todays Rassmussen Poll? (5/14/2012 11:15:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

I don't see gay marriage anywhere. Red herring?


Can you possibly fail to see the irony here?

Can you?




mnottertail -> RE: Oh, No! Romney seven points ahead in todays Rassmussen Poll? (5/14/2012 11:16:48 AM)

I think the irony is that he doesn't eat herring.




SternSkipper -> RE: Oh, No! Romney seven points ahead in todays Rassmussen Poll? (5/14/2012 3:44:37 PM)

quote:

Even the cons aren`t happy with their horse.


That's because he looks and acts so much a JACKASS, they think he's a Democrat.


[image]local://upfiles/18637/9FE291D4F0F34FD08CCCC1E3287A57D0.jpg[/image]




Musicmystery -> RE: Oh, No! Romney seven points ahead in todays Rassmussen Poll? (5/14/2012 3:52:58 PM)

If anyone actually cares about Rasmussen, Romney's slipped 3 points in three days.

Monday, May 14, 2012

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Sunday shows Mitt Romney earning 48% of the vote and President Obama attracting 44% support. Four percent (4%) would vote for a third party candidate, while another three percent (3%) are undecided.




Mupainurpleasure -> RE: Oh, No! Romney seven points ahead in todays Rassmussen Poll? (5/14/2012 4:03:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

Once again... from YOUR source. (GASP!!!)


[image]local://upfiles/687741/C67871E0E78C4815BCB9D913CB282E7B.jpg[/image]

I'm sorry but you seem to confyuse being most axccurate with the 2008 Presidential polling to being most accurate. Of all the races they were polling they were the least accurate. The accuarcay on the presiential race waqs because they skewed republican. it was the bredley effect where some voters say they are voting for the black man and don't. becauase they were naturally skeewed they accidentally compensated for that well known trend. See, I know that doesnt fit the racist's delegitamizing nhis election by blaming white guilt but it is based in a ctual data from other elections with black politicans and a white electorate unlike the myth so many racists love to believe which is based on faith people really didnt think the black man was better qualified they jsut felt guiltyThe Bradley effect theorizes that the inaccurate polls were skewed by the phenomenon of social desirability bias.[7][8] Specifically, some white voters give inaccurate polling responses for fear that, by stating their true preference, they will open themselves to criticism of racial motivation. Members of the public may feel under pressure to provide an answer that is deemed to be more publicly acceptable, or 'politically correct'. The reluctance to give accurate polling answers has sometimes extended to post-election exit polls as well. The race of the pollster conducting the interview may factor in to voters' answers so by being skewed they managed to be accurate in that ONE race. In the HA senate race they were off by 50 points




DarkSteven -> RE: Oh, No! Romney seven points ahead in todays Rassmussen Poll? (5/14/2012 4:15:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Theon38
Besides Christianity in this nation, there are many other religions, like Jews and Muslims, that typically vote for Democrats but are also opposed to same sex marriage.


Jews tend to be quite liberal, and the ones that I know (at my synagogues) will support same sex marriage. I don't know much about Muslims, but I have heard that they tend to go GOP. I very much doubt that they will BOTH be traditional Democrats but oppose same sex marriage.




SternSkipper -> RE: Oh, No! Romney seven points ahead in todays Rassmussen Poll? (5/14/2012 6:54:40 PM)

quote:

If it's a red herring, it's one the right put into play a decade ago.

Silly, but karma. That genie's out of the bottle.

Maybe it's time for long term planning and solutions instead.


Some red herring... jesus ... does he just like using cliche phrases?

More like a pot that's been on the stove too fucking long.

I think it's really more a matter of the gay community collectively saying "fuck this" realizing they've got a high enough percentage in this society to be counted and have decided to go for it.
Some of these guys want to call it posturing? Fine, they've called every other accomplishment he's achieved posturing.
But if they want to see what posturing really is, they have no further to look than their own candidate walking onto what is probably the ONLY college in America that's going to even THINK of asking him to do the commencement speech (don't be surprise if the SuperPAC bought his way in too. He gets up to the podium and the guy that pledges to not let his religion run his ass gives a speech that gives 'pandering' a whole new name. He made that speech straight to religious right, who impressive as they sound in the media, are only a little bigger than the Tea Party.
Yet there he is declaring marriage between a man and a woman and making religious declarations and making a special point of kissing Jerry Falwell's DEAD ASS, at the vertically integrated finding scam they have the balls to call a college.
THAT MY FRIEND IS A RED HERRING
And the herring was being sucked.




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