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RE: I was told to squirt in the face with a spraybottle... - 5/12/2012 1:16:02 PM

Toppingfrmbottom

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No, it's not cruel at all, it's true, just like where my cockerspaniel loved every one and thought every body was a buddy, Ginger saw strangers and people she didn't know very well as a reason to keep her distance or, if nessesary act all kujo about them being in her home. Calley may, she's indifferent to people. Sure she likes it if you do say hi, but she's neither attention hound nor kujo about it. She just stands there quietly till i tell people she's friendly and you may say hi if you like, then she wags her tail a bit and enjoys the bit of affection.

I am going to sign her up with the local trainer i mentioned earlier on basic obediance and learning to handle her kujo apeshit behavior about walking past other dogs who're going apeshit first. There's actually a brand new class starting Monday the 14th, but we can't afford to go this month.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PurePleasure2

This is just one sign of her exerting dominance over you. YOU decide when she gets attention or something else. Make her wait, and be sure to praise her for waiting when you do give the desired thing.

but that being said she waits for me to invite her and will stay off when i said no.

This will sound cruel, but Callie is not Ginger, she's Callie. Don't compare them. Each dog has its own personality, likes and dislikes.

Dogs can be great family members, but always remember they are DOGS, not humans in fur.

You have been offered some great advice here, if you really want a dog that behaves well, take the advice to heart.

quote:

dog soggy and corrected than to have to pay someone's vet bill because your dog acted up. You may want to mix water with some vinegar in the bottle s

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Post #: 41

RE: I was told to squirt in the face with a spraybottle... - 5/12/2012 4:01:40 PM

hardcybermaster

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google, youtube etc are your friends, take a good look at the advice of these and other sites on the net. They were also your friends when you asked for healthy food recipes and they will continue to be your friends when you ask other questions involving basic common sense like walking,talking etc.
You're welcome.

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Post #: 42

RE: I was told to squirt in the face with a spraybottle... - 5/12/2012 8:05:08 PM

Karmastic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

If I'm not mistaken, you're getting dogs from a rescue center right? So yeah, they're all going to be problem dogs. If you can't train these dogs then maybe you might want to look at getting a dog that's already trained from someone other than the rescue center if you really want a dog that much.

not all dogs from rescues are problem dogs. many are there simply cus they were dumped by their owners who moved to an apt or across country.

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RE: I was told to squirt in the face with a spraybottle... - 5/12/2012 9:13:49 PM

littlewonder

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That may be true but from her posts about other dogs she had from this rescue place, either she's getting stuck with problem dogs or she simply does not have the knowledge to handle a dog. If that's the case I would wonder what kind of checks they do to make sure a dog is placed with someone who can take care of it.

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RE: I was told to squirt in the face with a spraybottle... - 5/12/2012 9:24:09 PM

Karmastic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

That may be true but from her posts about other dogs she had from this rescue place, either she's getting stuck with problem dogs or she simply does not have the knowledge to handle a dog. If that's the case I would wonder what kind of checks they do to make sure a dog is placed with someone who can take care of it.

no offense to OP, but sounds like she's just learning to be alpha, and it's her. i'm sure you agree that there's no dog alive that doesn't have some issues, and they will walk all over you if you let them.

as Caesar likes to say, i think it's the OP that needs "training", not the dogs.

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RE: I was told to squirt in the face with a spraybottle... - 5/12/2012 9:26:34 PM

LadyConstanze

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Being rehomed is pretty traumatic for a dog and often some behaviour problems are the result of that...

Topping, yes, you shouldn't let her dictate when she wants to be petted, you initiate it. Don't feel bad for falling for it, I always had male dogs, so Kia was the first girl and they do behave different, so I fell for it, caused problems with obedience because I did what she wanted me to do, so now when she wants hugs and pokes me, I ignore her or send her to her bed. My other half is a sucker for a pretty face and pets her - guess who has more problems with the dog not listening? Of all the dogs I had, Kia is possibly the brainiest and the most trouble (as I said, the boy is a bit daft but extremely sweet), most people who had dogs of both sexes say the same, females tend to have an almost catlike way of training their owners, the trick is not to fall for it.

Being top dog in your pack is not cruel or an ego thing, it's actually for the protection of your dog, if anything happens, your dog's life could depend on you having control over her. Also if she gets away with stuff she will assume humans are weaker and therefore below her in the pack, now dogs discipline with their teeth, she might feel a human is breaking the rules and might just try to "correct" said human, our skin is a lot thinner than dog skin - as a result your dog might be put down. Don't get me started on that, in most of the bites that occur it's actually the fault of the human (pretty often the owner, or some clueless idiot who thinks it's a great idea to just pet an unknown dog on the head or grab a paw), some people should just not be allowed to have dogs and some people should be required to stay away from them...

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RE: I was told to squirt in the face with a spraybottle... - 5/12/2012 9:45:31 PM

Karmastic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
Being rehomed is pretty traumatic for a dog and often some behaviour problems are the result of that...

tru dat, but it's true for any dog being placed, whether from a rescue, shelter, or a breeder. i agree with littlewonder and you if you're saying it fraught with risks of other people's "rejects". but i don't see OP paying a lot of money for a bred dog, or trying to adopt a known "good" dog as any less risky than getting a dog that's right for her from a shelter or rescue.

i guess i'm biased because i'm a strong believer in rescuing dogs rather than breeding new ones. and, i think there's a "right" owner for almost any dog out there. the girl that i adopted at 2yrs old was returned as "human aggressive". i had to break her a bit like a wild horse, and she's still a little dog aggressive, but she's fine. people are surprised when i tell them the history because she's so sweet and licky.

ps - i don't bill myself as an expert, I'm not. also, i failed plenty too. i returned 2 dogs before i found one that was compatible with me and my then previous dog (died).

< Message edited by Karmastic -- 5/12/2012 9:47:09 PM >

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RE: I was told to squirt in the face with a spraybottle... - 5/12/2012 11:10:47 PM

LadyConstanze

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All my pets have always been rescues, I'm not a great fan of breeders and instead of encouraging the breeding (and making money) of dogs, I rather give a dog a home who needs it and always lucked out with them. It's honestly not a question of money, my "free" dogs have cost me so much, I could possibly have bought about 10 pure bred puppies, still wouldn't change them for the world.

I guess I am a bit too soft to return a dog, I usually end up with pets I looked after for friends because I can't bear the thought that they might go to a shelter...

Though a shelter is a bit worse for a dog than coming from a loving home to another loving home, just the environment is very stressful for them. I'm a big Dobie lover because their personality suits me, I'm always shocked how many people get one because they like the "look" and know fuck all about their personality or how much exercise and mental stimulation they need. It's not a dog you can walk for 10 minutes and expect said dog to be happy and well adjusted, also not the size where you want it to be untrained and running wild...

Well, I'm certainly not Caesar Milan, but for some reason I seem to have a pretty good rapport with animals, it's less rocket science and more just simple logic, understanding the mentality of the species and breed and their requirements and being consistent. The biggest mistake most owners make is applying human logic and characteristics to their dog. They're not humans, treat them like dogs and they're much happier!

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RE: I was told to squirt in the face with a spraybottle... - 5/13/2012 5:27:02 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom

I leave it up to her, she doesn't like to play or nothing so i don't know what to do to get her going out there, i just let her wander around, she sniffs at the ground a lot, goes up front to do her number 2's and smell all the new plants, comes back suns her self pee's if she needs to an then flops down to sun herself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Are you exercising her in the yard or leaving it up to her?

A retriever will not run around much without some encuragement. A retriever will exhaust herelf playing fetch. Get a length of rope or some toy that can be thrown and run her till she flops down and pants ahrd.

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Post #: 49

RE: I was told to squirt in the face with a spraybottle... - 5/13/2012 5:35:44 AM

ChatteParfaitt

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

That may be true but from her posts about other dogs she had from this rescue place, either she's getting stuck with problem dogs or she simply does not have the knowledge to handle a dog. If that's the case I would wonder what kind of checks they do to make sure a dog is placed with someone who can take care of it.

Agreed. Based on this thread (and previous ones), TFTB needs much more help with her dog training then this rescue place is giving her. An animal this aggressive toward other dogs needs expert attention; I wouldn't take one on, and I have a long history of great rapport and training ability with dogs.

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RE: I was told to squirt in the face with a spraybottle... - 5/13/2012 5:47:34 AM

ChatteParfaitt

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TFTB: I don't wish to be cruel to you, but you have a problem dog and have not taken great steps to educate yourself about dogs in general or your particular breed of dog.

A golden retriever is a very intelligent dog that needs tons of people interaction and lots of exercise. They are hunting dogs, and called retrievers for a reason. They love to retrieve, so you should have a ball, a stick, or something the dog likes to play with and have her retrieve every day. THIS IS WHAT THIS DOG WAS BRED TO DO.

They are very trainable, and make great family dogs. They are usually known for getting along great with other dogs, cats, people, and are so friendly they are not recommended to be a guard dog.

This dog is going to hurt another dog, another person, or you if you don't decide today to be the alpha. If you can't carry this through, then return the dog. Leaving the dog to fend for itself in the yard is a cruelty. It also reinforces the idea that the dog is the alpha.

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RE: I was told to squirt in the face with a spraybottle... - 5/13/2012 7:36:08 AM

frazzle

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I have never met an aggressive golden retriever. Intelligent, while daft, hell yes.

5 mile walk, with a swim in the middle ( for the dog, not me), and it wasnt the lunatic 4 legged mutt that was knackered.

Agrres with everyone, let it knows who is in charge, be consistant.

Now the reality. Take it back until you learn something about dogs, any dog.

Go to a rescue centre that actually cares about who they give a dog too.

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RE: I was told to squirt in the face with a spraybottle... - 5/13/2012 8:58:25 AM

Toppingfrmbottom

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I'm not getting stuck with them, i asked to foster the two dogs, and to be honest i didn't know what i was getting into with Bones. I've never had a deaf dog and nobody warned me what a challenge he'd be, or could be. I was forced to send him back but it was the best thing for him. I loved him but i wasn't what he needed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

That may be true but from her posts about other dogs she had from this rescue place, either she's getting stuck with problem dogs or she simply does not have the knowledge to handle a dog. If that's the case I would wonder what kind of checks they do to make sure a dog is placed with someone who can take care of it.

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RE: I was told to squirt in the face with a spraybottle... - 5/13/2012 9:06:12 AM

ChatteParfaitt

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Can't you see you've made our point for us? You say you want the dogs, but a reputable facility would not be placing deaf dogs or aggressive dogs with someone who knows as little as you.

And if they do have to, to keep the dog from being put down, they should be offering some kind of mentoring program for you.

Ask about this. Check out resources, online forums with people in your area, anything and everything. If you are going to continue to do this, you *have* to know more and be willing to use that knowledge. To do less is a disservice to *any* dog.

I have told you this before, years ago: If you want an animal you can coddle and spoil, get a cat.

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RE: I was told to squirt in the face with a spraybottle... - 5/13/2012 9:10:55 AM

Toppingfrmbottom

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She's very un retriever like, she doesn't care for toys or to play fetch or anything you'd think she would. The rescue tried to get her engaged with fetch andtoys and stuff like that and she wants none of it, some dogs just don't. There's a few Golden retrievers and Golden retriever mixes at the rescue who see no point in playing lol.

I also beg to disagree they won't run around on their own, i think it's up to the personality of the dogs, and maybe the situation cause some of the dogs i know are nuts and do nothing but run around on their own and play by themselves. Some of them would love it if you throw the ball, but don't necessarily need you, they throw it around and chase it and bite it an stuff all by themselves while you laugh and look on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

A retriever will not run around much without some encuragement. A retriever will exhaust herelf playing fetch. Get a length of rope or some toy that can be thrown and run her till she flops down and pants ahrd.

ChatteParfait

See my reply to DomKen, but also, i am getting her an obediance class and working on her reaction to dogs, she only goes kujo when they're going kujo mostly and that's not an excuse or something, it's really only the time i can't keep her under control, so the trainer will work on that. I know a lot of people say oh just use books and you tube video's and stuff but i really would do better in assisting Calley with someone in person showing me, and once you take the class you can take it again an again for the life of the dog, if you need refreshing or more issues come up.

Calley's not a bad dog or particularly problematic, Yes, not liking other dogs is not the best thing and her going ape when we walk past dogs going ape does need to be addressed. And i will.

quote:

A golden retriever is a very intelligent dog that needs tons of people interaction and lots of exercise. They are hunting dogs, and called retrievers for a reason. They love to retrieve, so you should have a ball, a stick, or something the dog likes to play with and have her retrieve every day. THIS IS WHAT THIS DOG WAS BRED TO DO.

< Message edited by Toppingfrmbottom -- 5/13/2012 9:29:11 AM >

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RE: I was told to squirt in the face with a spraybottle... - 5/13/2012 9:27:56 AM

Toppingfrmbottom

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at the rescue there's a few goldens or golden mixes occasionally over the year i been there, who don't like other dogs, or have other issues and are somewhat low level aggressive, or fucked up in the head it takes a long time and a lot of intensive work , there's a few, sweet as pie but don't you dare grab them by the collar, because it's an anger and fear trigger, or do not dare bathe or groom them with out a muzzle cause they WILL bite you, because it's a fear trigger or some emotional trigger and they WILL REACT, or so hard to manage only staff are hard to handle for the time being . Some of it is mis guidance, because they were on the streets so long they had to be the biggest badass running the streets or the others would take their food and hurt them, so they still see other dogs as a threat when they come in and are still acting all kujo and crazy for their own protection till they learn better, some simply were not socialized enough to not dislike other dogs. Some may have been abused by other dogs. There's a few that have it on their chart that they killed another smaller dog, One day as i was having lunch right in front of the counter on a couch that used to be there, a lady came in to Surrender her Golden she got somewhere else and they had not disclosed it had behavior problems, because it almost ripped her little Pomeranian throat out. Everything was all good and peaceful, they were having a raw hide snack, and then there was this horrible screaming and yelping and mom runs in to find the Golden has the Pom by the throat tearing into it and shaking the dog about. Blood everywhere, It was seconds away from killing it and her mom just barely saved the Pom, and as it was, the dog suffered massive injuries and was in critical care, and they were not sure if it was gonna live. those are the ones only staff are allowed to handle.

I don't know what happened to the Golden that was surrendered, i wasn't around much shortly after that time, and there was one golden before my time, and when i was talking to the lady about walking dog tips and sit an come type things, she told me who bit and brutally attacked her at the rescue 37 times while she was working with him in a yard, and they had to put him to sleep. Because the level of the attack was so severe . Another Golden was on quarantine for biting someone in the face, it was probably their fault, but they still had to report it.

Now i'm not relating these instances to make it seem like the rescue continually had crazy dogs or un safe practices, nor that they let people who were un fit work with the dogs, they don't this is what i've seen first hand and heard from reliable sources for the year i've worked there.

Like all animals there are Golden's who're vicious or mean or dog aggressive, it just depends on their history. and their personality. It'd be like saying because you never met an intelligent blond you don't believe there's intelligent blonds out there. To play to that old joke that blonds are stupid.

quote:

ORIGINAL: frazzle

I have never met an aggressive golden retriever. Intelligent, while daft, hell yes.

5 mile walk, with a swim in the middle ( for the dog, not me), and it wasnt the lunatic 4 legged mutt that was knackered.

Agrres with everyone, let it knows who is in charge, be consistant.

Now the reality. Take it back until you learn something about dogs, any dog.

Go to a rescue centre that actually cares about who they give a dog too.

quote:

at i was getting into with Bones. I've never had a deaf dog and nobody warne

< Message edited by Toppingfrmbottom -- 5/13/2012 9:50:48 AM >

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RE: I was told to squirt in the face with a spraybottle... - 5/13/2012 9:30:18 AM

Toppingfrmbottom

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You can't love and coddle and do all that lovey shit with a dog and still be the boss i suppose you're saying?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

I have told you this before, years ago: If you want an animal you can coddle and spoil, get a cat.

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Post #: 57

RE: I was told to squirt in the face with a spraybottle... - 5/13/2012 11:15:09 AM

ChatteParfaitt

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Nobody is saying don't love the dog. But all dogs need training, and you appear to be clueless as to how to go about this.

That dogs are pack animals and that their primary owner (you) needs to be the alpha is not earth shattering news. It's a dog owning basic.

That you show you are alpha by your body language and your tone of voice, and by what you do and do not allow the animal to get away with is, again, a basic.

Learn these basics now, not next month or next year when you can afford training. Get this straight in your head, please: if you do not immediately take the role of alpha, the dog will. This is what she has been doing. So every time you attempt to train her, you confuse the crap out of her, as she is jockeying for position with you for the role of alpha.

This is very common in people who do not know about how to deal with dogs, and the main reason why most people fail in their dog training: they do not know how to behave as alpha, or do not behave as alpha consistently.

But again, this is not news, it's a basic.

The thing is, you came here for advice, but do not seem to want to heed any of it.

If you want an animal that needs minimal training and that you don't have to walk and who won't get all fucked up in the head if you spoil it and let it be the alpha (b/c in their little minds, they are the alpha anyway) get a cat.

Not trying to be mean, really, I'm trying to help you excel at this as opposed to fail. Perhaps I am going about it in the wrong way. If so, I apologize, and hope the best for you and the dog.

Sorry, meant to add. A retriever of any kind that doesn't retrieve is fucked up, perhaps by over breeding. Goldens are very popular, so it's very possible. And bad behavior due to over breeding is very hard, if not impossible, to overcome.

< Message edited by ChatteParfaitt -- 5/13/2012 11:17:57 AM >

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RE: I was told to squirt in the face with a spraybottle... - 5/13/2012 11:24:12 AM

Toppingfrmbottom

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Not exactly not heeding any of it, I went back to making her do something i asked for food, and not giving it to her till she did as i asked. completely did, not just did for a second and then jumped up. And I will work on ignoring her when she comes up and bumps me but it's kind of automatic to turn and look lol.

I do make her go and lay down when i am eating and she's all like food? you have food?? Can i stand here and stare at you in hopes of eating some? I make her listen to me when i tell her to get on her cushion and stay when i want space to eat and not be oggled like some porno when i am eating.

I do work on her listening to me too, it's just more sporadic than it should be, and we'll fix that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

The thing is, you came here for advice, but do not seem to want to heed any of it.

If you want an animal that needs minimal training and that you don't have to walk and who won't get all fucked up in the head if you spoil it and let it be the alpha (b/c in their little minds, they are the alpha anyway) get a cat.

Not trying to be mean, really, I'm trying to help you excel at this as opposed to fail. Perhaps I am going about it in the wrong way. If so, I apologize, and hope the best for you and the dog.

quote:

mean, really, I'm trying to help you excel at this as opposed to fail. Perhaps I a

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RE: I was told to squirt in the face with a spraybottle... - 5/13/2012 11:27:57 AM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom

You can't love and coddle and do all that lovey shit with a dog and still be the boss i suppose you're saying?

Yes you can but not if the dog demands or asks you for it, YOU have to initiate it or else you are placing yourself lower in the ranks as the dog and a dog will not take commands from somebody who's lower in the pack. The whole "cute" stuff doesn't work when it comes to training, you have to be consistent and you have to understand the mentality. No offense but you really shouldn't have a big dog, it doesn't sound you know how they act or react and what they really need. A dog bigger than a toy breed can be a danger.

Don't get offended, but the way you treat the dog, you might mean best but you are just giving the dog the completely wrong signals and even a dog who has no behaviour problems would get some. By not being the pack leader you are FORCING the dog to be the leader and take that responsibility on, puts a hell lot of stress on the poor animal....

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