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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Foe Meyl I expect that the water is the ground plane and I am not sure if he did or did not have a single wire to it? I know certain people say he did not but none of the videos or lectures show it either way.

So you had no clue what he was doing yet you repeatedly posted the video and stills from said video as evidence Tesla's technology works? And YOU accuse me of lacking integrity?

hardly.

I am leaving room for discussion and debate, thanks for another red herring. you simply dont get it

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ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Foe Meyl I expect that the water is the ground plane and I am not sure if he did or did not have a single wire to it? I know certain people say he did not but none of the videos or lectures show it either way.

So you had no clue what he was doing yet you repeatedly posted the video and stills from said video as evidence Tesla's technology works? And YOU accuse me of lacking integrity?

hardly.

I am leaving room for discussion and debate, thanks for another red herring. you simply dont get it

No, I think I get why you change your spots repeatedly. You pull out any bit of nonsense and loudly proclaim it to be PROOF that Tesla coils work, even though you don't even know the background to the experiments yourself. You proved that by inadvertently admitting you knew nothing about Meyl's experiment. Thanks for that!

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ORIGINAL: dRGreen420

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

right and I agree. meyl is using a flat coil rather than a can coil and has no resonant 3rd coil, several turn impulse coil so that will drastically change the results. All these things were modifications to improve the results seen with the flat coils. Actually you could add one to the meyl device.

It was my understanding that the only reason he built it, not only for his own experiments to prove out the unified theory and vortices but so schools can easily set them up for demonstrators.

The third coil adds another degree of complexity and series of hurdles to overcome in the system that I do not think are necessary to make the point.

the very kool thing of course is how the energy does not simply blast off into nowhere like radio, but can be completely transfered to the load, and that hertzian style radio absolutely cannot do under any circumstances.

Flat spiral coils are suitable, and an extra coil can be added to it. The flat spirals are suited for transmission of "signals", and the 3 coil arrangement suitable for power transmission. I think this is mainly due to an engineering problem. To get the same frequency a flat spiral would need to be massive, so not practical for constructing and making adjustments etc. I think the extra coil was employed to try and reproduce the effects with the solenoid coil as were produced by the flat spiral. Note the inner turns of a spiral are a smaller diameter and are further from the primary allowing what he called resonant rise. The extra coil is similarly a "resonating coil".

I think the main problem with Meyl's devices is also what makes them nice, the fact it's a PCB. Laying flat on a solid surface reduces its operating velocity.

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ORIGINAL: dRGreen420

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

the biggest difference as I see it is that the earth is a gigantic sphere shaped conductor. If you put something into one side it can be seen on all sides by comparison simply because you are causing a disturbance that transfers through solids. On the other hand radio wave radiation is the size of a mosquito by comparison so which disturbance will be felt on the opposite side of the earth? Surely by comparison not the microscopic mosquito flapping its wings in air versus thumping on the whole of the earth in resonance with it no less.

I think you posted the diagram of the Telluric wave velocity a few pages back, which may compliment this

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Tesla

I mean that you have to have in the circuit, inertia. You have to have a large self-inductance in order that you may accomplish two things: First, a comparatively low frequency, which will reduce the radiation of the electromagnetic waves to a comparatively small value, and second, a great resonant effect. That is not possible in an antenna, for instance, of large capacity and small self-inductance. A large capacity and small self-inductance is the poorest kind of circuit which can be constructed; it gives a very small resonant effect. That was the reason why in my experiments in Colorado the energies were 1,000 times greater than in the present antennae.

Counsel

You say the energy was 1,000 times greater. Do you mean that the voltage was increased, or the current, or both?

Tesla

Yes [both]. To be more explicit, I take a very large self-inductance and a comparatively small capacity, which I have constructed in a certain way so that the electricity cannot leak out. I thus obtain a low frequency; but, as you know, the electromagnetic radiation is proportionate to the square root of the capacity divided by the self-induction. I do not permit the energy to go out; I accumulate in that circuit a tremendous energy. When the high potential is attained, if I want to give off electromagnetic waves, I do so, but I prefer to reduce those waves in quantity and pass a current into the earth, because electromagnetic wave energy is not recoverable while that [earth] current is entirely recoverable, being the energy stored in an elastic system.

Counsel

What elastic system do you refer to?

Tesla

I mean this: If you pass a current into a circuit with large self-induction, and no radiation takes place, and you have a low resistance, there is no possibility of this energy getting out into space; therefore, the impressed impulses accumulate.

Counsel

Let's see if I understand this correctly. If you have radiation or electromagnetic waves going from your system, the energy is wasted?

Tesla

Absolutely wasted. From my circuit you can get either electromagnetic waves, 90 percent of electromagnetic waves if you like, and 10 percent in the current energy that passes through the earth. Or, you can reverse the process and get 10 percent of the energy in electromagnetic waves and 90 percent in energy of the current that passes through the earth.

all radio waves are electromagnetic and a total waste of power, they could be powering your lights while telecasting WORLDWIDE WITH NO NEED FOR SATELLITES TO SPY ON YOU

It is just like this: I have invented a knife. The knife can cut with the sharp edge. I tell the man who applies my invention, you must cut with the sharp edge. I know perfectly well you can cut butter with the blunt edge, but my knife is not intended for this. You must not make the antenna give off 90 percent in electromagnetic and 10 percent in current waves, because the electromagnetic waves are lost by the time you are a few arcs around the planet, while the current travels to the uttermost distance of the globe and can be recovered.

This view, by the way, is now confirmed. Note, for instance, the mathematical treatise of Sommerfeld,

who shows that my theory is correct, (sounds like peer review to me!) that I was right in my explanations of the phenomena, and that the profession was completely misled. This is the reason why these followers of mine in high frequency currents have made a mistake. They wanted to make high frequency alternators of 200,000 cycles with the idea that they would produce electromagnetic waves, 90 percent in electromagnetic waves and the rest in current energy. I only used low alternations, and I produced 90 percent in current energy and only 10 percent in electromagnetic waves, which are wasted, and that is why I got my results. . . .

You see, the apparatus which I have devised was an apparatus enabling one to produce tremendous differences of potential and currents in an antenna circuit. These requirements must be fulfilled, whether you transmit by currents of conduction, or whether you transmit by electromagnetic waves. You want high potential currents, you want a great amount of vibratory energy; but you can graduate this vibratory energy. By proper design and choice of wave lengths, you can arrange it so that you get, for instance, 5 percent in these electromagnetic waves and 95 percent in the current that goes through the earth. That is what I am doing. Or you can get, as these radio men, 95 percent in the energy of electromagnetic waves and only 5 percent in the energy of the current. . . . The apparatus is suitable for one or the other method. I am not producing radiation with my system; I am suppressing electromagnetic waves. . . . In my system, you should free yourself of the idea that there is radiation, that the energy is radiated. It is not radiated; it is conserved. . . .

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne
I highlighted the pertinent part for a certain someone who cant read, not that it will do any good since that person simply does not get it.

yep we could all have electric everything and there would be no reason to have asphalt roads any longer.

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne
so are you claiming that this wave does not exist?



We already know and have proven that the speed of light is NOT a constant.

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne
you cant even hold a constructive conversation with green, I knew that from the beginning hence didnt waste my time on you from the beginning other than to laugh at your foolish ludicrous deceptions artifices and pleas to ignorance.

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The so—called Hertz waves are still considered a reality proving that light is electrical in its nature, and also that the ether is capable of transmitting transverse vibrations of frequencies however low. This view has become untenable since I showed that the universal medium is a gaseous body in which only longitudinal pulses can be prop­agated, involving alternating compressions and expansions similar to those produced by sound waves in the air. Thus, a wireless transmitter does not emit Hertz waves which are a myth, but sound waves in the ether, behaving in every respect like those in the air, except that, owing to the great elastic force and extremely small densi­ty of the medium, their speed is that of light.

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ORIGINAL: Aim2Plea
Anyone who claims Nikola Tesla's theories were bogus needs their head checked.

Nikola Tesla invented and perfected the light bulb. He worked under Thomas Edison. Edison owned the patent for the lightbulb due to contract. Edison was an idiot who knew business. He also had no idea how to give credit to others.

Nikola Tesla was the reason that we have the massive electrical grid we do instead of everyone having their own individual generators. You can thank AC current for that. Tesla's idea.

Radio? Tesla. Not Marconi. "You'll notice they still give out "Marconi" awards instead of "Tesla" awards.

Long range wireless energy transfer? Tesla. Not "discovered by students at MIT."

Dynamos used in hydroelectric dams? Tesla.

The list goes on.

But that's not really the point of the thread, is it?

The point is about gasoline.

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ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

I think you shouldn't rule out the possibility that a high intensity resonant circuit could be the sensitive enough to pull in a reasonable signal from the RF in a room. When postulating a theory to explain an unexpected phenomenon other explanations need to be ruled out as well.

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ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

I wouldn't think so because generating dams, which had been around for about a quarter of a century by the time Morgan pulled out, are used for conventional energy generation anyway, and cannot be truly regarded as free because they require an immense amount of (private) investment so Tesla seems to have been specifically referring to free energy.

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

ah the court case, nice, this is from hale is it? Do you have the whole case btw?

I highlighted the pertinent part for a certain someone who cant read, not that it will do any good since that person simply does not get it.

yep we could all have electric everything and there would be no reason to have asphalt roads any longer.

~the jetsons

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ORIGINAL: dRGreen420
When the receivers are brought into phase unison through the use of a test oscillator as calibration if you will, the received radio signals are OUT OF PHASE. It's not possible that a phase shift of the signal occurs in the room between one side and the other, therefore the only logical conclusion is that they are not the same signal. The audio signal is also phase shifted. Anyone can analyse this from the youtube videos I uploaded, the audio track is the actual received signals, one panned left and the other panned right, so any audio editor or running the signal through an oscilloscope will reveal that side of it in real time to anyone who investigates.

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ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
I wouldn't think so because generating dams, which had been around for about a quarter of a century by the time Morgan pulled out, are used for conventional energy generation anyway, and cannot be truly regarded as free because they require an immense amount of (private) investment so Tesla seems to have been specifically referring to free energy.

Everything requires an initial investment, that's the problem. Of course in reality it's all completely free, but humans insist on having made up ideas prevent progress and advancement. The immediate solution if people want free energy is to be the investors, then there is no one to pay bills to. The point being that the energy source is free, and a river compared to coal for example requires no fuel, the river is doing the work by itself whether you are there or not. So it's entirely free apart from "someone" having to pay for the equipment in the first place.

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Which brings me to the point, how do people ever expect to have any sort of free energy if they want to pay NOTHING, and it's the collective agreement of all those people that makes it cost anything at all? What they are saying through not saying anything, is that they want someone else to pay for it, and give it to them for nothing. Who has to build it and pay for it, when they want to keep their "money" concept and give nothing away? Morgan, being a businessman, had no reason to make such a stupid business move. Everyone is collectively to blame here. Tesla needed money because society demands that money be used, so let's not all blame one person. They could have equally said have all the materials you need to build this invention for free, the world would be a different place now. Anyway that is to say there are very simple and obvious solutions to the "free energy" thing, a water wheel is just an example of technology we've already got when people are looking for some sprouting energy out of thin air solution or something "spage-age". Clearly we are not appreciating and applying what we've already got through trying to get more advanced. I dare say we are getting ahead of ourselves, like an over-enthusiastic hiker who KNOWS the way and continues to advance himself into oblivion because he didn't recognise the effectiveness of a simple paper map. Or something like that

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ORIGINAL: dRGreen420

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

ah the court case, nice, this is from hale is it? Do you have the whole case btw?

I highlighted the pertinent part for a certain someone who cant read, not that it will do any good since that person simply does not get it.

yep we could all have electric everything and there would be no reason to have asphalt roads any longer.

~the jetsons

"NIKOLA TESLA ON HIS WORK WITH ALTERNATING CURRENTS
and Their Application to Wireless Telegraphy, Telephony and Transmission of Power : An Extended Interview"

http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/nt_on_ac.htm

Some of it is there, I've got a hard copy of the book. Essential reading for anyone wanting to reproduce the experiments.

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ORIGINAL: dRGreen420

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ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

I think you shouldn't rule out the possibility that a high intensity resonant circuit could be the sensitive enough to pull in a reasonable signal from the RF in a room. When postulating a theory to explain an unexpected phenomenon other explanations need to be ruled out as well.

That would be a reasonable hypothesis, however herein lies the advantage of using a "humble oscilloscope" as someone put it earlier. When the receivers are brought into phase unison through the use of a test oscillator as calibration if you will, the received radio signals are OUT OF PHASE. It's not possible that a phase shift of the signal occurs in the room between one side and the other, therefore the only logical conclusion is that they are not the same signal. The audio signal is also phase shifted. Anyone can analyse this from the youtube videos I uploaded, the audio track is the actual received signals, one panned left and the other panned right, so any audio editor or running the signal through an oscilloscope will reveal that side of it in real time to anyone who investigates.

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ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
I think you are getting into some philosophical territory here. There might need to be some sort of social contract where the people of a society pay for the technology. I suppose the closest today is government owned utilities but again they cost a vast amount to develop and maintain. Taxes go into them and still people have to pay their bills for said utility. I feel that doesn't lend credence to the theory you advance over what Tesla was talking about. You culd retort that companies would have been mostly private in Tesla's time, and that would be true but again he wouldn't be any stranger to what was truly involved in harnessing naturally available technologies like water to drive turbines etc. YMMV as always!