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RE: Can't cum from sex, how to tell a sub fem partner? - 5/17/2012 11:08:51 AM   
Kana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

You tell her the moment you two are about to fuck.

Once you would tell me I would not fuck you and tell you to get a full physical and/or counseling and if you did I would still be here and waiting and see you through it. If you didn't then I would walk away because like you said, I would feel like a failure.

Hate to publicly disagree with ya, but this is the worst thing to do.
Think it through.
He's led her down this road, got her all excited, she likes him, well at least enough to get it on, and then at the last minute he lays out this crushing truth...which he's known all along and his hitherto concealed.
That's flying false flags, entering a relationship with pretense and falsehoods at the root.
That's a terrible thing to do.
Matter of fact, I bet she would be pissed...and she would be damn right to feel that way. At the very least she should be hurt.
Why?
Because he led her down a road, got her hopes up, maybe feelings involved, certainly got her to trust him a bit, all the while (intentionally and knowingly) letting her think it would be one thing when instead it's the other.
That's just shitty behavior...and it certainly would damage if not destroy any nascent seeds of trust and respect she may have for him.

The right thing is to tell her straight out. I'm not talking first date, maybe not even second. But if things look like they may get serious, she deserves to be informed. How else can she make an educated informed decision involving her future, her heart and her body unless she has the relevant facts to do so?
And if she doesn't have all the facts because he held out (Out of fear, ego, loneliness, whatever) then he's an amoral scumbag because he's just using her as an means for his ends and not giving her the proper value that a person deserves.
JMHO and all


(Sticks tongue out, cackles madly, spins thee times on his heel and then runs for the hills)

< Message edited by Kana -- 5/17/2012 11:09:34 AM >


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RE: Can't cum from sex, how to tell a sub fem partner? - 5/17/2012 11:12:31 AM   
littlewonder


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here's the difference Master...I wasn't talking long term relationship stuff. I was assuming that the op is probably not looking for one (most newbies don't...sorry), and that it was just a casual fling or fuckbuddy or something like that. Now if you're talking about a real relationship then yes I agree with you. It should be brought up as soon as possible like in the getting to know you phase...maybe the 4th or 5th date.


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RE: Can't cum from sex, how to tell a sub fem partner? - 5/17/2012 11:28:00 AM   
Kana


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But even if it's just a one night thing, he still should be honest with her. She still has the right to make an informed decision. Matter of fact, if she's just looking for a quickie to get her rocks off, she may need to know MORE than someone in a LTR who has the time to work things out.
I mean hey, she wants to have a good time. Not be left feeling less than, unfulfilled and questioning herself
Sleazy is sleazy and lying is lying, no matter what the time frame is.
If he doesn't owe it to her, he at least owes it to himself. Otherwise he is a selfish, manipulative, self serving, dishonest lout...and nobody wants to feel that way about themselves (Well, at least outside a few serious maso pigs, but they fall on the other end of the kneel so they won't have this problem anyhow)


Besides,chortles, most of the time two people go to bed together, one of em is gonna wake up with feelings, despite any prior agreements to the contrary

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RE: Can't cum from sex, how to tell a sub fem partner? - 5/17/2012 11:29:12 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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And no one wants those feelings to be annoyance and disappointment!

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RE: Can't cum from sex, how to tell a sub fem partner? - 5/17/2012 11:36:08 AM   
Kana


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Exactamundo!

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RE: Can't cum from sex, how to tell a sub fem partner? - 5/17/2012 12:20:58 PM   
poise


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I gathered from your post that you've had no overwhelming issues in dealing with this in your
vanilla interactions, and are now concerned because you are entering into a kinkier relationship?

I think you should make mention of this while you are in communication with her now, prior to
meeting, but not in the "no matter what you do, it isn't going to bring me over the edge" kind of way,
because she will probably rise to the challenge and bring her A game, or decide not to put any effort
into it at all. Both of which can have negative affects in the long run.

With that out of the way, if in fact you only get to 95% of release, remember you're still running the show.
Turn it into a mutual masturbation fest!

< Message edited by poise -- 5/17/2012 12:22:21 PM >


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RE: Can't cum from sex, how to tell a sub fem partner? - 5/17/2012 12:23:26 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
The right thing is to tell her straight out.


From my own experience, I'd say that this is utterly wrong and would urge the OP to treat that recommendation with a great deal of caution indeed.

quote:

And if she doesn't have all the facts because he held out (Out of fear, ego, loneliness, whatever) then he's an amoral scumbag because he's just using her as an means for his ends and not giving her the proper value that a person deserves.


Nothing like a whole new level of anxieties to add to the OP's problems. Nice!

The inability to come, for men, is, most likely, in the mind alone and a milder form of impotence.

"The most common causes of the male orgasmic syndrome are psychological in nature. The responsible psychological mechanisms may be "intrinsic" (due to basic internal factors), or "extrinsic" (due to external or environmental factors).

Intrinsic psychological factors that may cause male orgasmic disorder include:

depression
feelings of guilt, anger, fear, low self-esteem, and anxiety
fear of getting the partner pregnant or of contracting a sexually transmitted disease or HIV
Extrinsic psychological factors that may cause male orgasmic disorder include:
living under conditions that cause undue stress
unsatisfactory relationship with sexual partner
past history of traumatic sexual encounters such as sexual abuse, rape or incest
having been raised in an atmosphere of strict sexual taboos"

http://www.minddisorders.com/Kau-Nu/Male-orgasmic-disorder.html


From what I know, failure to come during sex is a temporary thing with most men. It was with me. The best course was to minimise it as an issue. With each and every partner I had with whom I experienced the problem, the problem was compounded as soon as she knew about it. It's very, very difficult to shake the belief in women that a) men never have problems with having orgasms and b) if they do, it can only be because they, the women, aren't attractive enough or are useless in bed. Women pretty often don't ever move beyond that wavelength and into one of seeing the problem in terms of their male partner's own sexuality because they continue to buy into the myth that men's sexuality is too simple, straightforward and unsophisticated for such problems to arise.

I learned the hard way that it was better not to tell the partners in question. By the time they found out, the problem no longer existed anyway.

I'd never demand that a woman give me a frank talk apprising me of her inability to have orgasms so that I could give a 'yay' or 'nay' to whether or not the relationship continues. And I'd consider myself an utter shit were I to do so. I have a sense that most people here would agree with that assessment of myself, too.








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RE: Can't cum from sex, how to tell a sub fem partner? - 5/17/2012 12:25:53 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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It didn't occur to me that sexual dysfunction = no further relationship.

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RE: Can't cum from sex, how to tell a sub fem partner? - 5/17/2012 12:43:54 PM   
MistressDarkArt


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I like the French philosophy: whatever works, we do. Thus, if you need to finish with your hand...so be it. If she needs a certain technique, or 'machine assist'...so be it. Or you may decide orgasm isn't always (or ever) necessary to enjoy being together.

Everybody's different, and the same people change with time and life events. What worked 2 years ago might have to be modified or changed after a surgery, illness, or other life event. What worked with one partner might not with another, and in that way...we are all virgins with someone new. Adjust your focus to the joy of discovery, not orgasm as the goal. Women get 'performance anxiety' too. Taking the pressure off that way lets both relax and enjoy the journey. Surprisingly, once the expectation is removed, orgasms can result...however you arrive at them.

All will be well. Enjoy your connecting. Good luck.

< Message edited by MistressDarkArt -- 5/17/2012 12:45:36 PM >

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RE: Can't cum from sex, how to tell a sub fem partner? - 5/17/2012 12:45:37 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

It didn't occur to me that sexual dysfunction = no further relationship.


Good! If a woman is dysfunctioning sexually with me - i.e. failing to have an orgasm occasionally when we have sex together - it wouldn't occur to me that this signalled the end of the relationship, either.

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RE: Can't cum from sex, how to tell a sub fem partner? - 5/17/2012 12:54:33 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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Besides my own Issues, I've been with my share of men with ED. You can tell a LOT about how the man responds. If he instantly loses interest in me....hmmm...

It's all about the entertainments. Which have no specific goal other than mutual pleasure.

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RE: Can't cum from sex, how to tell a sub fem partner? - 5/17/2012 12:56:38 PM   
Kana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
From what I know, failure to come during sex is a temporary thing with most men. It was with me. The best course was to minimize it as an issue. With each and every partner I had with whom I experienced the problem, the problem was compounded as soon as she knew about it. It's very, very difficult to shake the belief in women that a) men never have problems with having orgasms and b) if they do, it can only be because they, the women, aren't attractive enough or are useless in bed. Women pretty often don't ever move beyond that wavelength and into one of seeing the problem in terms of their male partner's own sexuality because they continue to buy into the myth that men's sexuality is too simple, straightforward and unsophisticated for such problems to arise.


Yeah, but this is exactly why I think she should be told. She has a right to know what she's getting into.
It's up to her to decide whether it's something she wants to deal with or not.


That said, I had taken this as a long term thing, not something that's gonna pass. If it's just a temporary thing that changes matters quite a bit..but still, it's only fair she knows what she's getting into before she writes a check she ain't gonna be happy getting cashed.

quote:

The inability to come, for men, is, most likely, in the mind alone and a milder form of impotence.

Second note-it ain't that he can't cum, it's that he has to bring himself off by hand.
quote:

Nothing like a whole new level of anxieties to add to the OP's problems. Nice!

Third note-I ain't laying any new anxieties on him. Point of fact, I have charted a way for him NOT to have to be those things.
quote:

From my own experience, I'd say that this is utterly wrong

Fourth note-It may have been wrong for you. What about those women who may have been hurt? Would it have been wrong for them too?


Look. This is simple stuff. One is either honest with their partner or not. One is either moral or not. What kind of person does one want to be?
Do you use people w/o regard for how it may affect them?
Then you're a swine.
Do you conceal information from others so that you can arrange things so that you get what you want, w/o any thought about how it may hurt them?
Then you are a manipulative scumbag.
Do you conceal facts that will be (possibly very) relevant to their decision making in getting involved with you?
Then you're a liar..because AFAIC, lying is communicating with intent to deceive, whether by commission or omission.

All of which is just sleazy.
Slice it any way ya like, it's that cut n dried



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RE: Can't cum from sex, how to tell a sub fem partner? - 5/17/2012 12:57:29 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
The right thing is to tell her straight out.


From my own experience, I'd say that this is utterly wrong and would urge the OP to treat that recommendation with a great deal of caution indeed.

quote:

And if she doesn't have all the facts because he held out (Out of fear, ego, loneliness, whatever) then he's an amoral scumbag because he's just using her as an means for his ends and not giving her the proper value that a person deserves.


Nothing like a whole new level of anxieties to add to the OP's problems. Nice!

The inability to come, for men, is, most likely, in the mind alone and a milder form of impotence.

"The most common causes of the male orgasmic syndrome are psychological in nature. The responsible psychological mechanisms may be "intrinsic" (due to basic internal factors), or "extrinsic" (due to external or environmental factors).

Intrinsic psychological factors that may cause male orgasmic disorder include:

depression
feelings of guilt, anger, fear, low self-esteem, and anxiety
fear of getting the partner pregnant or of contracting a sexually transmitted disease or HIV
Extrinsic psychological factors that may cause male orgasmic disorder include:
living under conditions that cause undue stress
unsatisfactory relationship with sexual partner
past history of traumatic sexual encounters such as sexual abuse, rape or incest
having been raised in an atmosphere of strict sexual taboos"

http://www.minddisorders.com/Kau-Nu/Male-orgasmic-disorder.html


From what I know, failure to come during sex is a temporary thing with most men. It was with me. The best course was to minimise it as an issue. With each and every partner I had with whom I experienced the problem, the problem was compounded as soon as she knew about it. It's very, very difficult to shake the belief in women that a) men never have problems with having orgasms and b) if they do, it can only be because they, the women, aren't attractive enough or are useless in bed. Women pretty often don't ever move beyond that wavelength and into one of seeing the problem in terms of their male partner's own sexuality because they continue to buy into the myth that men's sexuality is too simple, straightforward and unsophisticated for such problems to arise.

I learned the hard way that it was better not to tell the partners in question. By the time they found out, the problem no longer existed anyway.

I'd never demand that a woman give me a frank talk apprising me of her inability to have orgasms so that I could give a 'yay' or 'nay' to whether or not the relationship continues. And I'd consider myself an utter shit were I to do so. I have a sense that most people here would agree with that assessment of myself, too.



This is an interesting perspective. So you are suggesting that failure to cum is something to be addressed psychologically.

I've never reacted badly when I've been with someone and they did not come - although, I must admit that I've never been in an on-going relationship with someone who was never able to cum in the typical ways. So your experience has been that most women when they encounter this blame themselves. I'm just curious if this is a conclusion that comes from having a conversation with your partners about this, or from observing their behavior, or just how are you coming to this conclusion?

My conversations with most men actually suggest that for most men, in most instances, they can cum regardless of whether they even find a woman attractive, or regardless of how good she is in bed. So I've never associated a man's orgasm with my beauty, my technical proficiency, or any other thing that people might think it was related to that had to do with me.

I'm just trying to understand whether this is some women who feel this way, most women who feel this way, or what exactly. I think it's conceivable that a woman of low self-esteem might blame herself. But I'm really having trouble understanding why women in general would blame themselves. I would never blame myself in that situation because I don't see male orgasm as connected to either beauty or technical proficiency of their partner. Am I in the minority??




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RE: Can't cum from sex, how to tell a sub fem partner? - 5/17/2012 12:57:58 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
It's all about the entertainments. Which have no specific goal other than mutual pleasure.


If only it could be. 'light entertainment', especially, would be so good. But with sex, it's all such heavy entertainment.


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RE: Can't cum from sex, how to tell a sub fem partner? - 5/17/2012 1:01:21 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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Is light entertainment all that good?

FTP, I think it can be easy for a woman to be made to feel insufficient if the man can't orgasm or get an erection. "NOT GOOD ENOUGH" is a default setting for a lot of women, I think, especially where sexuality is concerned.

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RE: Can't cum from sex, how to tell a sub fem partner? - 5/17/2012 1:10:52 PM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoodRoughness

I've found this is a hard issue for women I date to handle. I have never, not in my whole life been able to cum from a partner's touch. It could be conditioned or mental, who knows.

It's an issue I know will come up with any new partner. My last girlfriend thought it made her a failure as a woman that I needed to finish with my hand, even though she pushed me 95% of the way.

This condition allows me, I believe, more stamina in sex than most men and the ability to enjoy the pleasure of oral/intercourse for much longer. It still feels great.

I'm meeting a woman I met here in a couple weeks. It will be my first time in the community. We got to know each other and are talking on the phone, sending pics, figuring all the fantasies we want to live with each other. As a submissive woman, she says she enjoys giving pleasure more than anything. And I'm very happy to get to let out all the fantasies I've had locked away. How then can I tell her no matter what she does, it isn't going to bring me over the edge? I'll have been celibate from self pleasure for a couple weeks by the time I meet her, if there is any time where a woman could bring me off, it would be then. But I am doubtful. And I really don't want to trade my current stamina for the possibility of being a minute man if I learn to orgasm from sex.

Thoughts from submissive women mostly wanted. But any men with experience in this realm I'll listen.

I'd see how the first date went first. If you meet and there is no chemistry, no point in telling her anything. It's just not her business yet. I really don't see the big deal here. Unless this is an issue that is going to effect having progeny, just tell her that finishing yourself up is the way you roll whenever the talk naturally turns towards sex. Might be first date, second date.. whatever. Go with the flow and keep alert for the opportunities to share that and other parts of your life as it seems appropriate to do so. Seek medical attention if you're concerned that it's a medical issue, whether organic or some sort of conditioning.. there might be a fix out there for what ails you so hit the books with your research and take questions to your GP.

Good luck.



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RE: Can't cum from sex, how to tell a sub fem partner? - 5/17/2012 1:10:57 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

I'm just curious if this is a conclusion that comes from having a conversation with your partners about this, or from observing their behavior, or just how are you coming to this conclusion?


Them crying, getting miserable and depressed, saying such things as 'I'm ugly, what's the point?', feeling that I just must be deeply depressed about it despite what I say, etc, etc. And one citing it as a reason why she ditched me.

quote:

My conversations with most men actually suggest that for most men, in most instances, they can cum regardless of whether they even find a woman attractive, or regardless of how good she is in bed. So I've never associated a man's orgasm with my beauty, my technical proficiency, or any other thing that people might think it was related to that had to do with me.


Wow. That's not me and never could be me. I absolutely *do* have to find a woman attractive. But that is always the case with a woman with whom I'm having sex, natch, or I'd never have got into bed with her in the first place.

But more to the point, and without wishing to offend by stating the obvious: this isn't about most men. It's about the OP and people like him; also, women who've never come across this before but happen, unluckily, to find that their latest partner has this problem. It can rock a woman's complacency precisely because it's rare.


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RE: Can't cum from sex, how to tell a sub fem partner? - 5/17/2012 1:14:01 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
FTP, I think it can be easy for a woman to be made to feel insufficient if the man can't orgasm or get an erection. "NOT GOOD ENOUGH" is a default setting for a lot of women, I think, especially where sexuality is concerned.


Exactly. I know that only too well. Believe me, though, once a woman's started on that track, no amount of "For fuck's sake, why do you think I went for you in the first place?!" will be enough to stop her continuing on it.


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RE: Can't cum from sex, how to tell a sub fem partner? - 5/17/2012 1:22:47 PM   
fucktoyprincess


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Is light entertainment all that good?

FTP, I think it can be easy for a woman to be made to feel insufficient if the man can't orgasm or get an erection. "NOT GOOD ENOUGH" is a default setting for a lot of women, I think, especially where sexuality is concerned.


With respects to male orgasm I say this:

Well screw that LadyHib!! Women really need to stop thinking that way. This just bugs me to the core.

I know you don't think that way, but I really think no matter what a woman is like (physically, intellectually, vanilla vs BDSM, submissive vs Dominant, etc.) this is just not a mindset that a woman should have. Even for a submissive, I think this becomes a defeatist sort of perspective (and I am speaking as one).

With respects to male arousal I say this:

Okay, well this is now a little more complicated. Because we do associate male arousal with some combination of visual and touch. So I would understand that female perspective more. However, even with this, given the rates of erectile dysfunction generally, I think most women are not really blaming themselves. Also, with the advent of the ED drugs, I think responsibility for ED has been more squarely placed in the laps of the men, so to speak. Certainly none of my girlfriends with whom I share sex talk have ever expressed any self-doubt when confronted with ED (whether on occasion, or more generally).

I felt the need to separate the two because I do feel our perceptions of the two are different (even if psychologically, from a male perspective, they feel the same).

I will say this. I have certainly encountered ED with greater frequency than inability to orgasm. So I'm not sure we are dealing with exactly the same issue physiologically or even psychologically. Oddly, the few times I've encountered male inability to orgasm has been with men who had no difficulty with the erection aspect of sex. So something more complicated or different is going on there. But whatever is going on, it's going on with the guy.

Thinking out loud here, so my answer is not the most coherent. Apologies.

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RE: Can't cum from sex, how to tell a sub fem partner? - 5/17/2012 1:30:07 PM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Is light entertainment all that good?

FTP, I think it can be easy for a woman to be made to feel insufficient if the man can't orgasm or get an erection. "NOT GOOD ENOUGH" is a default setting for a lot of women, I think, especially where sexuality is concerned.


Agreed, especially when, as Peon said, society at large expects men to be able to come at the drop of a hat.

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