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Calling All Doms - Defining the "Perfect sub" - 10/29/2004 10:52:22 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		“Defining Real Doms”, “Training Doms”, “Un-caring Slaves”, “Dom References”, “Justifying Male Dominance”, “What Doms ‘Really’ Think”, “Dedicated Doms – Where are they?”, “The Death of Romance”; does anyone notice a commonality to all these message threads?

If you miss it here, I challenge you to watch any TV. Who’s the dumbest character in any sitcom? Worst yet watch any commercial; who’s the butt of any gag, the stupid person who doesn’t know his daughters may want new cell phones but NOT to talk to him? Who doesn’t know what car rental company he’ll be using and needs his wife to tell him while flying to his vacation destination?

Is any other male tired of this? Is any Dom sick of hearing how their attitude needs correcting? Do we need more whining about how Doms need to have more romance, more understanding, more openness, and be less demanding?

When I was looking at all the posts under all the various headings I could only find one countering question or complaint – “Where are the “real subs”? Well, everyone knows that – Quiznos, and they are HOT!

But we do need our side of the equation documented. What traits are we looking for in our ideal caring, romantic, dedicated, justifiably submissive, thinking, perfect – REAL sub?

I apologize to the Dommes out there - I didn't notice the same negativity toward you, but feel free to contribute.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 10/29/2004 12:58:34 PM >
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Calling All Doms - Defining the "Perfect sub&q... - 10/29/2004 12:22:37 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Lol. Man, I thought I was the only one that noticed this trend. The man seems to always be the buffoon. I would attribute this as a byproduct of the manhating feminist agenda that has been prevelant for years.
As for the perfect sub, that would probably vary with each Dom. In my case, I love the fact that my slave is perfectly comfortable and happy in her feminism and femaleness. She also understands that her submission to me does not make her weak in any way, and couldn't care less whether that is politically correct or not.
And of course she looks so hot kneeling at my feet.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Calling All Doms - Defining the "Perfect sub&q... - 10/29/2004 1:24:46 PM   
Sylverdawn


Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		The prefect sub.. is the one that works for you....

There are lots of "subs" out there I wouldnt have in a collar on a bet... They are not my ideal of what a submissive is.. but there are lots of Tops out there I wouldnt call Dom's either.. but my opinion and a five dollar bills will get me a cup of coffee alone..

I can only suit myself in my choice of partners.. trying to live up to some other persons ideal is not only a recipe for failure but utterly exhausting..

As long as you make each other happy.. more power to you.

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Calling All Doms - Defining the "Perfect sub&q... - 10/29/2004 2:00:08 PM   
Hawkins


Posts: 31
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: I'm English but I live in the Netherlands
Status: offline 		I think one reason us het doms don't express our disatisfaction the same way one can see submissives expressing satifaction over doms, is that we have a different personality type to submissives.

It's not so much that subs complain more; perhaps it's we complain less.

Also, to be fair, I see positive comments about doms from subs too.

I do think there IS a sexual bias in BDSM. Now, a male sub (typically a businessman paying for it) with a female dom is a stereotypical figure that has lost much of its shock-value to vanilla people; it is 'okay' for a succesful man to let himself be dominated by a woman.

Vanilla people are not quite so sanguine when it is a male dom meeting-out the same treatment to a female sub. As the number of women physically or mentally abused by partners is simply unacceptable, one can understand their concern, but it still sucks one is regarded suspiciously by uninofrmed people just because you're an 'out' dominant man.

But I won't complain until 50% of CEO's are woman; I wouldn't "walk a mile" where sexual bias comes to play. My feet would hurt.

As to the perfect sub?

It'll differ between doms, as has been noted, but if you ignore any physical aspects, in essense it is one whose natural submissive nature is pleasing to the dominant, and whose response to the dominant's domination is challenging and satisfying.

But again, that's the essense of what I want; others may differ.

I think getting doms to agree on detail is a bit like herding cats

It would be quite possible for semantics to stop two of them saying the same thing different ways to agree with each other. Or is that just everybody, regardless of gender?




(in reply to Sylverdawn)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Calling All Doms - Defining the "Perfect sub&q... - 10/29/2004 2:00:29 PM   
INSIDEYOURMIND


Posts: 483
Status: offline
quote:


When you aim for perfection, you discover it's a moving target.

Geoffrey F. Fisher


What makes the perfect sub to me is the one who compliments me, that understands that in her submission, she has the freedom to be who she really is.

_____________________________

If I got smart with you.................
How would you know?

(in reply to Sylverdawn)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Calling All Doms - Defining the "Perfect sub&q... - 10/29/2004 2:11:16 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Amazing - they are able to identify 18 distinct traits for the "Perfect Dom" and we can't list any for the perfect sub?

We should have something in mind - don't you think?

(in reply to INSIDEYOURMIND)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Calling All Doms - Defining the "Perfect sub&q... - 10/29/2004 2:44:57 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		In my case I don't necessarily look for the perfect sub. I look for the woman that has the traits I am looking for as a woman. The fact that she will be submissive to me is a given. And lists take too long to type. Lol.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Calling All Doms - Defining the "Perfect sub&q... - 10/29/2004 2:49:20 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Vanilla people are not quite so sanguine when it is a male dom meeting-out the same treatment to a female sub. As the number of women physically or mentally abused by partners is simply unacceptable, one can understand their concern, but it still sucks one is regarded suspiciously by uninofrmed people just because you're an 'out' dominant man.


The truth is, according to FBI crime statistics, there are just as many instances of domestic violence by women against men. And if you consider the stigma attached to males who are abused, many probably don't report it. I have never heard that fact mentioned by any feminist that I am aware of. I wonder why?

(in reply to Hawkins)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Calling All Doms - Defining the "Perfect sub&q... - 10/29/2004 3:20:43 PM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Amazing - they are able to identify 18 distinct traits for the "Perfect Dom" and we can't list any for the perfect sub?


You have to keep in mind. A sub did not write what a perfect Dom is to them. A Dom wrote it about himself.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Calling All Doms - Defining the "Perfect sub&q... - 10/29/2004 3:45:25 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		Let me see if I can address a few things here:

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire
quote:

Amazing - they are able to identify 18 distinct traits for the "Perfect Dom" and we can't list any for the perfect sub?

You have to keep in mind. A sub did not write what a perfect Dom is to them. A Dom wrote it about himself.

Yeah I have to agree with Gloria (and the facts!) on this one here. You guys are your own worst enemy at times.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring
Lol. Man, I thought I was the only one that noticed this trend. The man seems to always be the buffoon. I would attribute this as a byproduct of the manhating feminist agenda that has been prevelant for years.


I understand the point you are trying to get across Estring and though I would agree that feminism had a part in this, I wouldn’t blame it all on feminism. As I just finished saying, you guys are your own worst enemies at times.

Media tends to really be mean to men. Let's see who was the creator of the most popular buffoon. Matt Groening's, creator of the uber idiot: Homer Simpson. Is Matt Groening a “manhating feminist”? Probably not. Do you think that the Simpsons cater to higher degree of feminists then other shows? Probably not.

That said, there are many factors for the stereotypes in today’s society and trying to point at one thing and saying “that’s the cause” is a little simplistic in my opinion.

I think man is often the buffoon because he choses to be. This being said, not all men are buffoons. We have our own stereotypes on the woman's side. Pick up just about any copy of Maxim or watch any Axe or Coors commercial.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I apologize to the Dommes out there - I didn't notice the same negativity toward you, but feel free to contribute.


You’ve obviously overlooked all the threads on Money Dommes, Dominatrix = Prostitute with a whip, all the sub boys that complain how we are too hard on them…

We all take a hit on the chin now and then. No biggie.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hawkins
I think one reason us het doms don't express our disatisfaction the same way one can see submissives expressing satifaction over doms, is that we have a different personality type to submissives.

It's not so much that subs complain more; perhaps it's we complain less.


There is a difference between stating needs, boundaries, desires, deal-makers & breakers, etc. and complaining.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hawkins
Also, to be fair, I see positive comments about doms from subs too.


Tons!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hawkins
I do think there IS a sexual bias in BDSM. Now, a male sub (typically a businessman paying for it) with a female dom is a stereotypical figure that has lost much of its shock-value to vanilla people; it is 'okay' for a succesful man to let himself be dominated by a woman.

Vanilla people are not quite so sanguine when it is a male dom meeting-out the same treatment to a female sub. As the number of women physically or mentally abused by partners is simply unacceptable, one can understand their concern, but it still sucks one is regarded suspiciously by uninofrmed people just because you're an 'out' dominant man.


I couldn’t agree with you more!

Don’t just blame the vanilla people though. Their lack of understanding comes from pure honest ignorance (not understanding all the facts). The people that swim in these waters are just as bad in propagating the sexual/gender stereotype from within. Just look at the recently yanked thread which called for the justification of male dominance (well, I guess you can’t look at it as it has been yanked) as well as the thread on female supremacy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hawkins
But I won't complain until 50% of CEO's are woman; I wouldn't "walk a mile" where sexual bias comes to play. My feet would hurt.


Yeah, the world kind of balances out with all of it’s imbalances it seems…


Now in terms of what the perfect sub is…

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sylverdawn
The prefect sub.. is the one that works for you....


What she said.

- LA


_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Sylverdawn)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Calling All Doms - Defining the "Perfect sub&q... - 10/29/2004 3:47:06 PM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline 		M. Merc-

Eldest child
Reads (reads a lot!)
Wears glasses or contacts
Likes sushi
Likes motorcycles
Artist of some sort- media doesn't matter, but the self expession skills do
Demanding, powerful career track
Adventurous spirit
Self awareness
Comfortable in her submission
Exhibitionist
Fit
Petite (I enjoy a woman I can carry up a flight of stairs, or fling across the room onto the bed)
Competent- not a person who can't assemble a bookcase without making it the building of the brooklyn bridge.
a Welder (can't say why, but this has occured in two of the most wonderful women I have known)
Big chewy nipples
Affectionate
Upbeat
Passionate
Multi-orgasmic
Patient (if she has to deal with me, this is important)
a bit needy- not as far as the point of clingly
Girly/fem/whatever


I am sure I could come up with more...

Stay warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Calling All Doms - Defining the "Perfect sub&q... - 10/29/2004 4:22:25 PM   
jillwfsub4blkdom


Posts: 375
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		Merc,
i personally think that females are more willing to express their feelings than men. i just think it is more of a personality trait.

jill

_____________________________


"It's the moment that transcends
Our physical into a more spiritual level of understanding" - Musiq

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Calling All Doms - Defining the "Perfect sub&q... - 10/29/2004 4:27:01 PM   
aliljaded1


Posts: 121
Joined: 6/20/2004
Status: offline 		im not sure how this is going to sound , but i believe the perfect sub is someone that That knows Him better then He knows Himself

< Message edited by aliljaded1 -- 10/29/2004 4:28:06 PM >

_____________________________

**The mind is its own place,and in itself can make a heaven of hell, and a hell of heaven**


(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Calling All Doms - Defining the "Perfect sub&q... - 10/29/2004 5:00:29 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

Eldest child
Likes sushi
Likes motorcycles
Petite (I enjoy a woman I can carry up a flight of stairs, or fling across the room onto the bed)
a Welder (can't say why, but this has occured in two of the most wonderful women I have known)


Damn those would leave me out.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Calling All Doms - Defining the "Perfect sub&q... - 10/29/2004 5:15:53 PM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline 		Midear Ali-

everytime you open your mouth, I like you better...

stay warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to aliljaded1)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Calling All Doms - Defining the "Perfect sub&q... - 10/29/2004 5:18:07 PM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline 		midear Proud-

Those are all just ideals- and all of them in one woman is a lot to ask-

but you aremarried, which is, sadly for us both, a dealbreaker...

stay warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to proudsub)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Calling All Doms - Defining the "Perfect sub&q... - 10/29/2004 6:09:08 PM   
newflowers


Posts: 292
Joined: 5/23/2004
Status: offline 		Come on guys - surely you have a list of specific wants - think of it as a submissive from Santa - what's going on the list?

Lawrence gave a start. Merc, perhaps if you list beth's most wonderous qualities that would help light a fire under these gentlemen.

newflowers

< Message edited by newflowers -- 10/29/2004 6:10:10 PM >

(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Calling All Doms - Defining the "Perfect sub&q... - 10/29/2004 6:30:05 PM   
SherriA


Posts: 544
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Eldest child
--> yep

Reads (reads a lot!)
--> yep (some would say too much!)

Wears glasses or contacts
--> nope. My optomitrist asks me every year why I'm there, just to hear him say I have great eyes?

Likes sushi
--> ony the veg kind these days, but it's probably what I miss most since I stopped eating animal flesh

Likes motorcycles
--> likes? Nope. I LOVE motorcycles!

Artist of some sort- media doesn't matter, but the self expession skills do
--> nope, not artistic at all. I play the piano, but I"m a technician, not an artist.

Demanding, powerful career track
--> nope. Love my job, but it's not brain surgery or rocket science.

Adventurous spirit
--> nope. I'm a cancer; we're homebodies. A secure place to hang our hats is important.

Self awareness
--> too much of this!

Comfortable in her submission
--> submission? me? bwahahahahahahahhaha!

Exhibitionist
--> nope, but I fake it well

Fit
--> nope, not anymore. *grumble*

Petite (I enjoy a woman I can carry up a flight of stairs, or fling across the room onto the bed)
--> short, but not petite

Competent- not a person who can't assemble a bookcase without making it the building of the brooklyn bridge.
--> can build a bookcase just fine, but prefer to have it delivered!

a Welder (can't say why, but this has occured in two of the most wonderful women I have known)
--> nope

Big chewy nipples
--> nope

Affectionate
--> nope (and don't anyone dare say otherwise!)

Upbeat
--> when I have something to be upbeat about

Passionate
--> about some things, and indifferent about others

Multi-orgasmic
--> HELL YEAH!

Patient (if she has to deal with me, this is important)
--> sometimes, sometimes not, depending on the situation

a bit needy- not as far as the point of clingly
--> needy? I'd never admit to it!

Girly/fem/whatever
--> girly? me? hmmm...nope, don't think so

Damn, it's a good thing I'm not auditioning for the role of "perfect sub" for Lawrence (or for anyone else for that matter).

For *me*, a perfect sub is a honey oat roll stuffed with grilled veggies & pepperjack cheese, drizzled with balsamic vinegar, and sprinkled with freshly cracked pepper. Ok, now I'm hungry!




< Message edited by SherriA -- 10/29/2004 6:31:22 PM >

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Calling All Doms - Defining the "Perfect sub&q... - 10/29/2004 6:31:35 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		Lawrence you cheeky guy you!

Lets see... (I hope you don't mind the color commentary)

ORIGINAL: topcat

Eldest child Rationale?
Reads (reads a lot!) Of course!
Wears glasses or contacts Is this a kinky thing?
Likes sushi Not liking sushi is a deal breaker for me
Likes motorcycles Vroom!
Artist of some sort- media doesn't matter, but the self expession skills do I get this one 100%
Demanding, powerful career track Yes
Adventurous spirit Yes
Self awareness Yes
Comfortable in her submission Yes.. or his
Exhibitionist Yes
Fit Sure
Petite (I enjoy a woman I can carry up a flight of stairs, or fling across the room onto the bed) Not a criteria for me. I like girls to be buxom like me and I like my guys bulky.
Competent- not a person who can't assemble a bookcase without making it the building of the brooklyn bridge. Of course
a Welder (can't say why, but this has occured in two of the most wonderful women I have known) You weirdo
Big chewy nipples I like the itty bitty
Affectionate Yes
Upbeat Yes
Passionate Yes!
Multi-orgasmic YES!
Patient (if she has to deal with me, this is important) understandable
a bit needy- not as far as the point of clingly totally understandable
Girly/fem/whatever uh huh... except for my boys ;)

I am sure I could come up with more...

I can...
Giant libido
Twisted sense of humour
Capable of intellectual conversation
Knows how to make a great Grey Goose martini
Does windows
Can deal with my insanity (Mwuah hah hah)


- LA


_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to topcat)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Calling All Doms - Defining the "Perfect sub&q... - 10/29/2004 7:19:08 PM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

The truth is, according to FBI crime statistics, there are just as many instances of domestic violence by women against men. And if you consider the stigma attached to males who are abused, many probably don't report it. I have never heard that fact mentioned by any feminist that I am aware of. I wonder why?


Because you've been talking to the wrong feminists. As an active member of NOW, and a very rabid feminist who associates with a very large group of feminists both male and female, I'm pretty darn aware of and repulsed by those figures.


As the people I associate with see it, feminism is the movement to provide equality between people. This -includes- removing gender-related stigmas from men.

Please stop using the word feminist as an insult. I swear, we're not evil people, nor are all of us the type you seem to have been aquainted with which has turned you so much against us.


_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 20
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