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"The disabled are mainly parasites and down and ou... - 5/27/2012 3:50:37 AM   
stellauk


Posts: 1360
Status: offline 		This was a view expressed by a 'health professional' working for ATOS Healthcare.

Who are ATOS Healthcare? This is the private healthcare company employed by the UK Government to carry out the Work Capability Assessments on the country's sick and disabled - people who up to now have been claiming Incapacity Benefit through being unfit for work - to determine whether they are eligible for the new benefit Employment Support Allowance. The Government pays ATOS Healthcare £100 million a year to carry out these assessments.

The Employment Support Allowance was devised by the previous Labour government under Gordon Brown to replace Incapacity Benefit and Income Support and was designed to provide the sick and disabled with their benefits and support whilst helping them to recover and return to work. For some - those people who will not recover ESA was to provide an income, similar to a pension. But others who could eventually return to work were expected to take part in a welfare to work program and they could take on work and recover without having any pressure placed on them to find a job.

In a Work Capability Assessment in order to keep your benefits you must score a minimum of 15 points. If you don't score any points you are declared fit for work and your benefits are stopped. At her Work Capability Assessment, as revealed by the BBC Scotland documentary 'Who's cheating who' in 2009 June Mitchell complained of breathlessness and feeling tired. ATOS Healthcare didn't bother to check with Ms. Mitchell's GP (family doctor) but awarded her zero points and declared her fit for work. Some weeks later June Mitchell died of terminal lung cancer.

In comes a new coalition Government who decide that the number of people claiming Incapacity Benefit reduced by 75% and they introduce Workfare - where the sick and disabled are required to work unpaid for six months, usually for a High Street retailer, in order to keep their benefits. Workfare is very popular and companies such Walmart-ASDA, Tesco's, Waitrose, Marks and Spencer, Argos, Virgin, TK Maxx, and others make use of Workfare to employ the sick and disabled.

Among the people ATOS healthcare are finding fit for work include:

- the mentally ill who pose a significant risk to themselves and others
- cancer patients who are receiving chemotherapy
- a young man who is blind, deaf and unable to walk.
- people who have severe depression and/or who are bi-polar.
- people with significant mobility problems
- people who regularly require hospital treatment as part of their care or therapy.

There have been numerous deaths as a result of these welfare reforms. A number of people who have had their benefits stopped have committed suicide. Others, like June Mitchell, have died as a result of not receiving the support or treatment they need.

Out of every 10 decisions ATOS Healthcare makes on Work Capability Assessments, at least four result in an appeal. It is not known how many result in someone committing suicide.

According to their own figures the Department of Work and Pensions admits that only 6% of those assessed find their way into support groups. The rest of the sick and disabled are either placed on Workfare or have their benefits and support stopped.

It's also worth bearing in mind that there are other cutbacks and many organizations are having their funding cut and even taken away. Many of these provide the essential frontline support services to people such as the mentally ill, the disabled, and the elderly. This is having the effect that family members are having to give up their work in order to care for these people or they are being put into care homes.

Those claimants who have been declared fit for work and ineligible for ESA (Employment Support Allowance) are being moved to Job Seeker's Allowance but staff at Job Centres are not being informed of their health issues or disabilities and many of these people face 'sanctions' (withdrawal of benefits) because they are not making themselves fully available for work or simply because they are turning down interviews for work which they are simply not capable of doing.

There was the case of a young man who's baby was in intensive care who had his Job Seeker's Allowance stopped because he was unavailable for work at the times he was at the hospital.

Links

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PBKrsOEV8g&feature=related

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/video/2011/may/11/disability-protest-atos-origin-video

http://benefitclaimantsfightback.wordpress.com/open-letter-on-atos-healthcare-to-the-bmj-and-rcn/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/aug/13/atos-doctors-improper-conduct-disability

I'm not saying that there aren't people who aren't playing the system and being less than honest, because there are people who do. But these welfare reforms aren't addressing the problems and are in fact targetting people who have genuine needs and who genuinely need support.

Your thoughts and comments?

< Message edited by stellauk -- 5/27/2012 3:56:13 AM >

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RE: "The disabled are mainly parasites and down an... - 5/27/2012 4:06:41 AM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		The whole point of ATOS is to get people off ESA and back onto JSA so that they can be fast tracked into workfare placements.
Given that, do you honestly expect them to give a flying fuck about actual medical issues? You're not going to get that from assessors without any medical qualifications in any place.

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RE: "The disabled are mainly parasites and down an... - 5/27/2012 5:29:07 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		I think it's criminal to have non-medical personnel make medical decisions.

quote:

At her Work Capability Assessment, as revealed by the BBC Scotland documentary 'Who's cheating who' in 2009 June Mitchell complained of breathlessness and feeling tired. ATOS Healthcare didn't bother to check with Ms. Mitchell's GP (family doctor) but awarded her zero points and declared her fit for work. Some weeks later June Mitchell died of terminal lung cancer.

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RE: "The disabled are mainly parasites and down an... - 5/27/2012 5:34:15 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		This sounds like US style "welfare reform," you should be so "proud."

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RE: "The disabled are mainly parasites and down an... - 5/27/2012 5:43:34 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Its catching ...Fucking horrendous , but considering all things Im not surprised, Ashamed and disgusted that its taking such a turn. but typical bureaucratic dumb fuckery in progress. I bet their costs are double what the actual benefit costs to disabled people are.
Fucking private healthcare companies PISS me OFF

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RE: "The disabled are mainly parasites and down an... - 5/27/2012 7:43:58 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

I think it's criminal to have non-medical personnel make medical decisions.

Completely.
However, it's a lot cheaper to train some idiot to follow a checklist than it is to hire somebody with a grasp of medicine. That'd require them covering indeterminate cases that aren't adequetely covered by a script, in any case.

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RE: "The disabled are mainly parasites and down an... - 5/27/2012 8:09:20 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Simple. The pols want to cut down on the expense of the disabled, so they hired an agent, ATOS, to do a study and come to a predetermined conclusion, building the illusion of lack of bias.

Very simple to fight this. The ministry charged with administering aid, has a set number of paper shufflers. After any presumed cuts, they will simply have the same number administering aid to a smaller clientele. Simply raise the idea that the entire funding to the ministry be cut in proportion to the cut in benefits given. The same civil servants that stood by while the disabled got shafted, will be up in arms about their own pay or positions being cut. And any who stand for cuts in disabled disbursements will have a very hard time justifying not cutting the agencies that have a reduced clientele.

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RE: "The disabled are mainly parasites and down an... - 5/27/2012 9:02:34 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		You're aware that we've had civil service strikes and walkouts over proposed cuts already, Steven?

< Message edited by Moonhead -- 5/27/2012 9:03:33 AM >

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RE: "The disabled are mainly parasites and down an... - 5/27/2012 9:41:18 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		FR

ATOS, and the lives it gets away with destroying, is pretty much the inevitable result of three decades of the vilification of those on benefits, by all the governments involved, and with the enthusiastic backing of most of the press. For me, it's in all ways disgusting.

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RE: "The disabled are mainly parasites and down an... - 5/27/2012 9:41:28 AM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		Sounds like America. My late dom was dying of metastatic bladder cancer and couldn't get social security benefits. He was denied after the hospital applied for him. If he hadn't had me, he would have ended up on the street or in a nursing home. and there are people who get the benefit for "anxiety".

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RE: "The disabled are mainly parasites and down an... - 5/27/2012 9:55:34 AM   
needlesandpins


Posts: 3901
Status: offline 		these sorts of services are always shyte. the CSA was another prime example. they don't go after the people they are supposed to, they go after the easy target. there will always be abusers of the system, but stripping people who really need benefits is just wrong.


needles

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RE: "The disabled are mainly parasites and down an... - 5/27/2012 10:25:30 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Stella, Your title took me back in time. You may remember when we talked about what my brother said to me. "You are nothing but a drain on society, you should take a gun and shoot yourself." A few years later I was dealing with trying to get medical care to find out what was wrong and learning a great deal. Eventually advocating for those disabled and chronically ill.

I didn't use the format that other advocates used. I still thought like a PollyAnna and right is right and wrong is wrong and if people just understand they will do the right thing. Yeah... okay! lol I was working at keeping the disabled working longer through education and work from home and anything else that would bring some productivity to their situations. In all my work... many lives were saved or encouraged, but so little really changed.

I turned the minds of the Colorado leaders and that was the only thing I accomplished in that area. I did so by showing how not spending money on those that were ill/disabled, would filter into society and what effects it would have there. I am a graphic writer and didn't care about their poor sensibilities and graphically described what would happen to those between work and disability and how much that would cost everyone.

They were voting no to the funding for these people and that vote was changed. Being graphic does have its benefits.

The costs in lives lost and how these people will be forced to survive if they cannot work, will cost far more in jailing them, societal issues etc. It will also create a situation where they will need support systems in an already overwhelmed area of helping agencies. Sometimes it does look like they would rather see the disabled, take a gun and stop being a drain on society. The economy is so bad, that I do get that everyone is hurting and any drain on that pain is too much. I understand it and yet I don't on a humane level.

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RE: "The disabled are mainly parasites and down an... - 5/27/2012 1:23:52 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

Sounds like America. My late dom was dying of metastatic bladder cancer and couldn't get social security benefits. He was denied after the hospital applied for him. If he hadn't had me, he would have ended up on the street or in a nursing home. and there are people who get the benefit for "anxiety".

It isn't quite that bad here yet. At least terminal cancers will be treated by the NHS, even if there is this stupid system where Quangos decide how disabled somebody is without medical training or checking with the consultants they claim to be seeing.

As peon says, there's a current villification of those on benefits. Continual shouting in the red tops about benefit fraud, yet almost no mention in the same media of tax evasion by the plutocracy. It's a ludicrous double standard as if Tony Blair was to pay his taxes rather than hiding them in his foundation in a manner that makes grown accountants weep, that alone would cover the cost of all the benefit fraud in the country. I'm sure you have exactly the same problem in New Zealand.

(The dirtiest trick in ATOS' toolbox hasn't even been mentioned yet. While somebody is appealing a wrongheaded decision, which can take anything up to a year to go to an independent tribunal, their benefits are cut and they have to keep providing the DWP with sick notes. I suspect a lot of people will find that enough of an inconvenience that they won't wait for their appeal to go through.)

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RE: "The disabled are mainly parasites and down an... - 5/27/2012 6:12:20 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Nonmedical personnel make medical decisions here all the time, especially if you're a retiree. The meds my mom needs are "not in the formulary". They're available for purchase, at about a thousand dollars a month, but medicare won't pay, nor will her auto company retiree insurance.



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RE: "The disabled are mainly parasites and down an... - 5/27/2012 6:16:41 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

Sounds like America. My late dom was dying of metastatic bladder cancer and couldn't get social security benefits. He was denied after the hospital applied for him. If he hadn't had me, he would have ended up on the street or in a nursing home. and there are people who get the benefit for "anxiety".


My bff's mister is dying of pancreatic cancer... due to her SiL working for a charity program, he was able to get treatment. Otherwise, he would just be another undiagnosed uninsured person.

Fraud in these disability areas is so trivial compared to the real need of so many. Disgraceful.


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RE: "The disabled are mainly parasites and down an... - 5/27/2012 7:16:02 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		FR

I do hope the Americans who think that government assuming control of healthcare is some sort of magic wand wave to the whole problem, are paying attention to this.

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RE: "The disabled are mainly parasites and down an... - 5/27/2012 7:19:33 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Good luck with that, Heretic! Our current system is a fucking disaster, but you don't have to look too far to see how bad it is elsewhere.

All the systems are great for the healthy...

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RE: "The disabled are mainly parasites and down an... - 5/28/2012 3:59:21 AM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

FR

I do hope the Americans who think that government assuming control of healthcare is some sort of magic wand wave to the whole problem, are paying attention to this.

A point that's made made more than once, but you don't appear to have grasped:
ATOS are not a healthcare company, and have fuck all to do with any victim's healthcare. They're a Quango the last government set up to try to get people off the allowance that was set up as a replacement for incapacity benefit. Even those forced back onto JSA by them are still able to seek whatever medical care they require through the NHS, and while on a benefit of any sort, do not pay prescription charges on their medication.

So yes, obviously the British healthcare system run by a civil service bureacracy is vastly inferior to the American system where it's run by free enterprise and insurance companies are allowed to set their own rates and refuse to pay to treat pre existing conditions.

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RE: "The disabled are mainly parasites and down an... - 5/28/2012 4:01:27 AM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Good luck with that, Heretic! Our current system is a fucking disaster, but you don't have to look too far to see how bad it is elsewhere.

All the systems are great for the healthy...


Don't get sick, don't get old...

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RE: "The disabled are mainly parasites and down an... - 5/28/2012 7:38:00 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

Nonmedical personnel make medical decisions here all the time, especially if you're a retiree. The meds my mom needs are "not in the formulary". They're available for purchase, at about a thousand dollars a month, but medicare won't pay, nor will her auto company retiree insurance.


There's a procedure in the VA for getting around this. What I did was accept the medication I didn't want, reported its side effects (which I looked up; I didn't actually take it), and asked for the medication I did want.

Your Mom's plan may have a similar provision.

Additionally, I saved thousands of dollars when my Husky had cancer by buying his meds from http://www.getcanadiandrugs.com/ They require a prescription, which I got from the vet and faxed to them. Other sites "require" a prescription with their "have prescription" checkbox.

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