RE: Five ways Mitt Romney is fighting against unions and America's middle class (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: Five ways Mitt Romney is fighting against unions and America's middle class (5/30/2012 10:55:11 AM)

LOL, Guy, you crack me up.




Musicmystery -> RE: Five ways Mitt Romney is fighting against unions and America's middle class (5/30/2012 11:32:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Take a look at 19th history before advocating for no unions.
It didn't work so well.


Interesting. So what you are saying is that if we abolish unions at this time, all things that unions have fought for will vanish and we will be thrust back into pre-union conditions?

I expect more from you. You usually have at least a shred of honesty in your posts.

Fuck you. What is this shit?

1) We had a free market.
2) It led to untenable conditions
3) Unions resolved this (albeit through a messy process).

What? You think the Rights Fairy will protect people if protections are taken away?

Yes. Without Unions, the things Unions have won will vanish.

Duh.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Five ways Mitt Romney is fighting against unions and America's middle class (5/30/2012 11:38:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Fuck you. What is this shit?
1) We had a free market.
2) It led to untenable conditions
3) Unions resolved this (albeit through a messy process).
What? You think the Rights Fairy will protect people if protections are taken away?
Yes. Without Unions, the things Unions have won will vanish.
Duh.


Thanks for the offer, but I do prefer chicks.

1. And all the regulations since would disappear, right?
2. Which is why unions were absolutely necessary at that time.
3. Unions did resolve this. That has never been in question.

Let's see, the things the Unions originally fought for are codified. Nope. No need for the Rights Fairy.

And, no, the things Unions scrapped and fought for will not vanish if Unions are disbanded. That's just fearmongering and rubbish. Get a fucking clue.




Musicmystery -> RE: Five ways Mitt Romney is fighting against unions and America's middle class (5/30/2012 11:42:19 AM)

Now we're on a playground. Whatever.

Good luck with your fantasy. Get a fucking clue yourself--laws change continually, as does the push for deregulation and underfunding oversight agencies.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Five ways Mitt Romney is fighting against unions and America's middle class (5/30/2012 11:42:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
What the fuck are you talking about? you should learn to read what I wrote, you didnt understand a goddamn thing.
I wonder what the Nazi manifesto says?  Arbieten Machten Frie!


Let's see. You asked who the Commie was.

Now, if I'm reading you right this time, you apparently were calling me a Commie?!?

Or, were you calling "management" Commies?

Who exactly were you calling a Commie?




mnottertail -> RE: Five ways Mitt Romney is fighting against unions and America's middle class (5/30/2012 11:53:26 AM)

the collectivization of labor and the collectivization of ownership is two sides of the same coin, if one is communist so is the other, nodody should be so fucking dense.


I didn't call you a commie, learn to read, maybe it will come to you in time.     




DesideriScuri -> RE: Five ways Mitt Romney is fighting against unions and America's middle class (5/30/2012 8:34:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
the collectivization of labor and the collectivization of ownership is two sides of the same coin, if one is communist so is the other, nodody should be so fucking dense.
I didn't call you a commie, learn to read, maybe it will come to you in time.     


who is calling for the collectivization of ownership?!?

So, who were you calling a Commie (a question that was posed that you probably "forgot" to mention, or some other unfortunate oversight)?





erieangel -> RE: Five ways Mitt Romney is fighting against unions and America's middle class (5/30/2012 9:40:49 PM)

I've read every post in this tread.

Nobody said the protections the unions have gained for workers would disappear overnight if unions ceased to exist. But those protections would erode. Even with the unions, some of those rights and laws have been targeted in the recent past.

Maine's governor has tried to overturn child labor laws.

Mitt (and most Republicans) want to do away with the minimum wage. You, yourself, have claimed that the minimum wage is a huge driver in keeping minors unemployed. But its not only minors who work for minimum wage. A lot of adults work for $7.25 an hour. And guess what, at 40 hrs. week, it isn't enough to rent a 2 bedroom apartment, so if you are an only parent with 1 child, you're out of luck, according to HUD. Oh, and in most states, it is illegal for a parent and child to share a bedroom or for 2 children of opposite gender to share a bedroom after a certain age--I know when my kids were 8 & 6 I was told I had to move into a 3 bedroom apartment.

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/935929/minimum_wage_not_enough_for_a_2-bedroom_unit_in_any_state_%28unless_you_work_way_more_than_a_40-hr_week%29/





mnottertail -> RE: Five ways Mitt Romney is fighting against unions and America's middle class (5/31/2012 6:08:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
the collectivization of labor and the collectivization of ownership is two sides of the same coin, if one is communist so is the other, nodody should be so fucking dense.
I didn't call you a commie, learn to read, maybe it will come to you in time.     


who is calling for the collectivization of ownership?!?

So, who were you calling a Commie (a question that was posed that you probably "forgot" to mention, or some other unfortunate oversight)?




You called me a commie. I called you something which you are unable to discern. You cannot cogitate at a sub-amoebic level.  If you cannot understand the English language, you are at a disadvantage on this forum, and while it is not forbidden for you to be here, it would be of some use to you to try and comprehend that you are unable on an intelligence basis, to make up my positions to your liking.  Now you are living in some fantasy.  Read the goddamn things I have written and take some time use some 'oversight' (the other kind).

The servile capitulists in the teabagger party looking to break labor, pollute the environment, enable corporations to merge and destroy competition in favor of large corporations, rail, farming, shipping, jobs, airlines, foodstuffs.......ad nauseAm....is the collectivization of ownership.  Communism.

Even St. Wrinklemeat, when confronted with microchip dumping, televison dumping, and motorcycle dumping... had the good goddamn sense to throw up tarriffs.





kalikshama -> RE: Five ways Mitt Romney is fighting against unions and America's middle class (5/31/2012 6:30:04 AM)

quote:

A lot of adults work for $7.25 an hour. And guess what, at 40 hrs. week, it isn't enough to rent a 2 bedroom apartment, so if you are an only parent with 1 child, you're out of luck, according to HUD.


While I agree that affordable housing is a valid issue, HUDs "Fair Market Value" prices are very high for my county of Plymouth, MA. I'm picky, so spent about 6 months looking last year. Now, I'm looking for someplace with central AC, so am looking again. HUD lists the 50th percentile rates for a 2 BR as $1,486 but for that in my county you'd be on a golf course.




mnottertail -> RE: Five ways Mitt Romney is fighting against unions and America's middle class (5/31/2012 6:32:48 AM)

And you are not up for being nine holes, or?




DesideriScuri -> RE: Five ways Mitt Romney is fighting against unions and America's middle class (5/31/2012 7:44:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel
I've read every post in this tread.
Nobody said the protections the unions have gained for workers would disappear overnight if unions ceased to exist. But those protections would erode. Even with the unions, some of those rights and laws have been targeted in the recent past.


However, when directly asked if that is what they are saying, nobody has answered it, until you. And, let's not forget that in the Information Age, the way rumors and truths spread so quickly and so wide, preventing erosion back to the conditions of the first half of the 20th century, won't be that difficult.

quote:

Mitt (and most Republicans) want to do away with the minimum wage. You, yourself, have claimed that the minimum wage is a huge driver in keeping minors unemployed. But its not only minors who work for minimum wage. A lot of adults work for $7.25 an hour. And guess what, at 40 hrs. week, it isn't enough to rent a 2 bedroom apartment, so if you are an only parent with 1 child, you're out of luck, according to HUD. Oh, and in most states, it is illegal for a parent and child to share a bedroom or for 2 children of opposite gender to share a bedroom after a certain age--I know when my kids were 8 & 6 I was told I had to move into a 3 bedroom apartment.


http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2011tbls.htm

Of the 3.829M people earning minimum wage or less (tips and other things are not included in wage earning calculations)
  • 50.5% (1.933M) are over 25.
  • 33.3% (1.274M) are Full-Time workers.
  • 64.3% (2.462M) have never been married
  • 21.8% (0.836M) are married and their spouses are present


I found no data showing how many families are supported by minimum wage earners, which is unfortunate. I would have liked to see how many people are supporting families with one minimum wage job, two full-time minimum wage jobs, one parent at a salary and the spouse making minimum wage, or how that all breaks down.

I'm not challenging your assertions, but I will say that I have never heard of the bedroom laws before. I am a bit surprised at them, to be honest. Not that I don't see why opposite gender children need to be separated, but it's probably something I never considered would need a law about. When my older brother went to college, my younger brother moved from the room he shared with my younger sister, into the room with me. At that point, I was 16, my younger brother was 11, and my sister was 8. That isn't quite the age when I think they would have needed to be separated, but it wasn't too far off. What was to prevent you from sharing a room with your kids, or let your kids share a room, once you had a larger apartment? Did they come and do random bed-checks? Some laws make me shake my head and wonder wtf people think sometimes.

What is the point of low-wage jobs? Why don't they pay more? What are the effects of increasing the minimum wage, beyond what increase in income it would mean (which assumes that nothing else changes)?





DesideriScuri -> RE: Five ways Mitt Romney is fighting against unions and America's middle class (5/31/2012 8:03:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
the collectivization of labor and the collectivization of ownership is two sides of the same coin, if one is communist so is the other, nodody should be so fucking dense.
I didn't call you a commie, learn to read, maybe it will come to you in time.     

who is calling for the collectivization of ownership?!?
So, who were you calling a Commie (a question that was posed that you probably "forgot" to mention, or some other unfortunate oversight)?

You called me a commie.


I would like to see proof of that.

quote:

I called you something which you are unable to discern. You cannot cogitate at a sub-amoebic level.  If you cannot understand the English language, you are at a disadvantage on this forum, and while it is not forbidden for you to be here, it would be of some use to you to try and comprehend that you are unable on an intelligence basis, to make up my positions to your liking. 


Got Dictionary.com on your bookmark tab? LMAO

You don't know me. You don't have any idea who or what I am, or have been through. Your demeaning assertions and use of large words are proof that you are attempting to assume a superior position over me simply because of your vocabulary. Nice try, but...fail.

quote:

The servile capitulists in the teabagger party looking to break labor, pollute the environment, enable corporations to merge and destroy competition in favor of large corporations, rail, farming, shipping, jobs, airlines, foodstuffs.......ad nauseAm....is the collectivization of ownership.  Communism.


At what point in time did the tea party come out in favor of the bank bailouts (which the too big to fail banks used to get bigger)? That's not anything I recall being on a sign at a rally. The tea party is not in favor of Corporatism by any stretch.

quote:


Even St. Wrinklemeat, when confronted with microchip dumping, televison dumping, and motorcycle dumping... had the good goddamn sense to throw up tarriffs.


I haven't followed the Catholic faith, or any faith that put a huge emphasis on Sainthood or various Saints, but I'm pretty sure there is no "St. Wrinklemeat" out there. And, since I have no idea who you are referring to, I'll not comment further on that.




mnottertail -> RE: Five ways Mitt Romney is fighting against unions and America's middle class (5/31/2012 8:23:43 AM)

Well, even mincing small words seem to escape your comprehension.  So, because I can use words (all of them invented to meet some percieved need) and upwards to a 99 percentile extremely common in usage in a sentence, your flummoxing is a reason  to villify me?

The fact that one can play Grieg's Piano Concerto in A minor with some expertise is certainly no reason for cretins to attack one, because they cannot; isn't that true?




DesideriScuri -> RE: Five ways Mitt Romney is fighting against unions and America's middle class (5/31/2012 12:41:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Well, even mincing small words seem to escape your comprehension.  So, because I can use words (all of them invented to meet some percieved need) and upwards to a 99 percentile extremely common in usage in a sentence, your flummoxing is a reason  to villify me?
The fact that one can play Grieg's Piano Concerto in A minor with some expertise is certainly no reason for cretins to attack one, because they cannot; isn't that true?


Deflection of the actual issues noted.

If you would actually like to engage in discourse, it is recommended that you answer questions and respond to answers to your questions. Rebutting rebuttals is expected, but rebutting with slights and barbs rather than countering with pertinent information, is not conducive to furthering the dialog.

If you're interested in actually discussing things, please start out by answering or providing information that answers these questions:

    1. Where did I call you a Communist?
    2. Who were you referring to when you asked the question, "Who is the communist here?"
    3. Who is calling for collectivization of ownership (and how does the ownership issue impact it being Communism)?


If you don't want to actually engage in a discussion, a dialog, a debate, or whatever you want to call it, simply ignore anything I post. I hear it's not really all that difficult to do.




mnottertail -> RE: Five ways Mitt Romney is fighting against unions and America's middle class (5/31/2012 1:56:35 PM)

Well, I'm certainly not, but you seem to have a much greater leaning towards Communism than I. I mean, you're all uniting the workers. I wonder what the Communist Manifesto says. Oh, yeah. "Workers of the World, Unite!"

Regarding 2 and 3,  I am not going to play any ask me a hundred times horseshit with you.   Already asked and answered.  READ.




kalikshama -> RE: Five ways Mitt Romney is fighting against unions and America's middle class (5/31/2012 6:23:25 PM)

quote:

And you are not up for being nine holes, or?


Lol. Actually, I did live on a golf course in South Florida. HUDs Fair Market Values seem more accurate for Broward County.








DesideriScuri -> RE: Five ways Mitt Romney is fighting against unions and America's middle class (5/31/2012 9:51:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Well, I'm certainly not, but you seem to have a much greater leaning towards Communism than I. I mean, you're all uniting the workers. I wonder what the Communist Manifesto says. Oh, yeah. "Workers of the World, Unite!"
Regarding 2 and 3,  I am not going to play any ask me a hundred times horseshit with you.   Already asked and answered.  READ.


So, you are saying that I called you a Commie after you posed the question?!? Holy crap. This just gets better.

Best of luck to you, dude. Call Pat Sajak and see if he has any clues you can buy instead of vowels.




Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Five ways Mitt Romney is fighting against unions and America's middle class (5/31/2012 11:12:57 PM)

Anybody who thinks a lot of things should not be regulated, have rules and be held accountable. Well... is fucking out of their minds. If we had more regulations in a number of areas, we'd not be in the mess we are today.




Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Five ways Mitt Romney is fighting against unions and America's middle class (5/31/2012 11:16:20 PM)

People can't afford to live on Min wage, let alone if min wage is removed! What the FUCK? Anybody that believes people can live on less than min wage is a fucking idiot.

DAMN... I'm reminded of the reason why now..that I don't venture in this area of the message boards much.





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