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RE: Stand Your Ground II - 6/13/2012 9:19:10 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Let me explain the rules that a rollback traditional self defense functions under.
A the victim must retreat even within thier own home
B the assalent must make it unquestionable that he intends to harm the victim
C the victim must verbally warn the assalent that he intends to resist
D the victim must fire a warning shot
E at this point the victim may defend himself.

This is not a strawman or a red herring it is merely pointing out what we would be returning to if we rolled back to the standard self defense laws.

Maybe you should come up with another "remedy"

You might want to actually read the Fl stand your ground law before making inaccurate claims aas to what it allows.

I have never heard of these rules...can you provide the link

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 241
RE: Stand Your Ground II - 6/13/2012 9:40:02 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		No but these are the rules we had in Alabama until we moved to castle doctrine about 6 years ago.
In Alabama the rules are the same if you are in your home or walking down the street so the effect of castle doctrin here is much the same as stand your ground. I apologize for the lack of a link but it haas been a while since we abandoned those rules. I specified Alabama Because I don't know what traditional self defense rules were in other states though it does seem that they all required the victim to retreat.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 6/13/2012 9:43:41 AM >

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 242
RE: Stand Your Ground II - 6/13/2012 9:55:36 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

No but these are the rules we had in Alabama until we moved to castle doctrine about 6 years ago.
In Alabama the rules are the same if you are in your home or walking down the street so the effect of castle doctrin here is much the same as stand your ground. I apologize for the lack of a link but it haas been a while since we abandoned those rules. I specified Alabama Because I don't know what traditional self defense rules were in other states though it does seem that they all required the victim to retreat.


So these rules are not or rather were not universal

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 243
RE: Stand Your Ground II - 6/13/2012 10:00:55 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		I don't know for sure clearly the requirement to retreat was but some of the others may have varied.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 244
RE: Stand Your Ground II - 6/13/2012 10:17:56 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		Here are a few of the links I found.

bushipower.com
shouselaw.com California
Md has no self defense law as per ehow.com
yahoo.com/selfdefence laws

I find the provision in someplaces that the victim can use no greater level of force particularly distressing.
That would mean that if attacted by someone with a knife the victim must use a knife or lesser weapon to defend themselves puting them at a substantial disadvatage.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 245
RE: Stand Your Ground II - 6/13/2012 10:31:05 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		For the details of rules for Alabama I have only the course taught by the Montgomery pd for new cc holders and new gun owners. The rules I posted are the way the law was enforced in Alabama.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 246
RE: Stand Your Ground II - 6/13/2012 2:42:16 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
What I gave you earlier was not a red herring it was the rules we lived under prior to castle doctrin.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro
So these rules are not or rather were not universal


That's correct, contrary to his claim those aren't the rules that WE lived under. It varies from state to state and he pulled a bait and switch from Florida to Alabama.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 247
RE: Stand Your Ground II - 6/13/2012 3:01:29 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		Again you distort what I did and said I never claimed to be telling you what it was in Fl before syg just what we would be facing in Al if your rollback scheme was followed.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 248
RE: Stand Your Ground II - 6/13/2012 3:22:12 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		Ok you post the old Fl self defense laws since you insist that they were somuch better you must have a link to them.

We as in those of us who live here.

Give facts not stupid accusations.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 249
RE: Stand Your Ground II - 6/13/2012 6:11:22 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I think we can agree that Rodriguez is attempting to abuse the law.


http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2012/06/13/20120613texas-man-convicted-stand-your-ground-case.html

He was convicted.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 250
RE: Stand Your Ground II - 6/13/2012 6:20:51 PM   
BamaD


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Status: offline 		I said attempted not did.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 251
RE: Stand Your Ground II - 6/13/2012 6:30:42 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I didnt say you did. Just offering an update on the case you were discussing. Gesh... relax.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 252
RE: Stand Your Ground II - 6/13/2012 7:17:21 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I think we can agree that Rodriguez is attempting to abuse the law.


http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2012/06/13/20120613texas-man-convicted-stand-your-ground-case.html

He was convicted.


They jury did not take long, the DA did their job.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 253
RE: Stand Your Ground II - 6/13/2012 7:24:16 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		Sorry didn't mean for that to sound testy didn't know the trial was over, it had been presented as a current case and I found out earlier today that it happened two years ago. More apropriate would have been thanks for the update.

Did you see the Texas case that came up this week were the man killed someone he caught molestimg his 4 year old daughter?
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I didnt say you did. Just offering an update on the case you were discussing. Gesh... relax.


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 254
RE: Stand Your Ground II - 6/13/2012 7:34:44 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Ok you post the old Fl self defense laws since you insist that they were somuch better you must have a link to them.

We as in those of us who live here.

Give facts not stupid accusations.


SERIOUSLY STOP FUCKING LYING ABOUT MY POSITION!

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 255
RE: Stand Your Ground II - 6/13/2012 7:42:09 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Sorry didn't mean for that to sound testy didn't know the trial was over, it had been presented as a current case and I found out earlier today that it happened two years ago. More apropriate would have been thanks for the update.

Did you see the Texas case that came up this week were the man killed someone he caught molestimg his 4 year old daughter?
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I didnt say you did. Just offering an update on the case you were discussing. Gesh... relax.




Nope where is the link?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 256
RE: Stand Your Ground II - 6/13/2012 8:06:33 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Sorry didn't mean for that to sound testy didn't know the trial was over, it had been presented as a current case and I found out earlier today that it happened two years ago. More apropriate would have been thanks for the update.

Did you see the Texas case that came up this week were the man killed someone he caught molestimg his 4 year old daughter?
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I didnt say you did. Just offering an update on the case you were discussing. Gesh... relax.




Yes... and to be honest... what jury would convict that man?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 257
RE: Stand Your Ground II - 6/13/2012 8:52:16 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		I'm not sure you have a position to lie about.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 258
RE: Stand Your Ground II - 6/13/2012 8:53:40 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		I agree wholeheartedly, if there was ever a man who needed killing.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 259
RE: Stand Your Ground II - 6/13/2012 8:55:21 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		DA had an easy job.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 260
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