RE: Stand Your Ground II

RE: Stand Your Ground II (Full Version)

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Real0ne -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/2/2012 1:24:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro quote: ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub fast reply Never fear, as soon as Sharpton and Jackson hear of this, they will have a rally and get this man arrested. They rage against all injustices yanno. The whole thing, both cases, make me sick. You know I am really hoping they do show up. I am not a fan of either of them but as of now they are the only people who are willing to stand up against the NRA, who pour millions of dollars into the politians election funds, so they can get this law passed. I can see it now the NRA using this as they do and will show proof that their "Stand Your Ground Law" has once again protected a family against a dangerous unarmed mentally disabled criminal who was going to murder and rape them. Give me break what about all the recent government home invasion murders? Its ok when they do it though right? what about the armed sane criminal let them kill you right?

BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/2/2012 1:25:33 PM)
Lets pass a law that says the thugs own the streets then we will all be much better off won't we. quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy There's too much downside risk with stand your ground laws and not nearly enough public benefit. Why encourage the use of guns as a way to solve violent conflicts or to "protect" yourself from perceived threats.

Nosathro -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/2/2012 1:49:20 PM)
I am waiting for the guy who shoots and kills an 8 year old girl scout who knocks on his door. He will claim the "stand your ground law" because she had a gang with her and tried to sell girl scout cookies. I am not fan of those cookie too. I am sure the NRA will have all kinds of justifications to defend for this one.

BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/2/2012 3:18:47 PM)
How about the 9 and 10 year old who were killed by a man who invaded their home. Their 13 year old sister knew how to use firearms but couldn't get them because of Californias laws to protect children from evil guns required them to be locked up where she couldn't get to them. And your restrictions on self defense are still tantamount to handing over the streets to thug. Read more guns Less crime. It is a dry read but demonstrates that crime never goes up after concealed carry laws are passed and never goes down after more restrictions are passed against legitimate gun owners.

BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/2/2012 3:29:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Check Tazzygirls link. It gives several other tragic but legitimate cases in addition to this one. Kalikshama has elaborated on one of them. So murder is in your view justified.... the death of a persom with the mind of a 13 year old...what courage and bravery..... A Defense Lawyer was interviewed on CNN about the Zimmerman case, I did not agree with alot he said but one point he did make, "Zimmerman would not have been so brave if he didn't have a gun" Wasn't murder he was aquited, could be there were facts not included in the article.

Real0ne -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/2/2012 4:36:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro I am waiting for the guy who shoots and kills an 8 year old girl scout who knocks on his door. He will claim the "stand your ground law" because she had a gang with her and tried to sell girl scout cookies. I am not fan of those cookie too. I am sure the NRA will have all kinds of justifications to defend for this one. I think you should be more concerned with the ignored baby dying from household claener and then get on your soapbox to ban all household cleaners.

LizDeluxe -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/2/2012 5:49:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro A 1995 Northeastern study, this was before "Stand you Ground" laws, study people who claimed self defense, 48% of those who were killed, by people claiming self defense, did not have a weapon. Fuck your study. I don't confront people. I don't start fights. I mind my own business and leave everyone else alone. If someone fucks with me they better be wearing Kevlar. It is not incumbent upon me to determine whether you are armed or what your purpose for confronting me is. I would not have shot the guy at the Taco Bell drive-through but I absolutely would have brandished my weapon. I have done so on two occasions when people have gotten just a little too close for comfort. Unlike the wild west mantra you love to recite it has actually defused the situation peacefully both times. It was never removed from the holster nor was it ever pointed at anyone. It was only displayed. I take my own personal defense very seriously.

BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/2/2012 6:26:10 PM)
Were you talking about the AZ case? I said that did not look justified. This time you distorted what I said so badly I didn't recognize it at first.

Owner59 -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/2/2012 7:46:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD How about the 9 and 10 year old who were killed by a man who invaded their home. Their 13 year old sister knew how to use firearms but couldn't get them because of Californias laws to protect children from evil guns required them to be locked up where she couldn't get to them. And your restrictions on self defense are still tantamount to handing over the streets to thug. Read more guns Less crime. It is a dry read but demonstrates that crime never goes up after concealed carry laws are passed and never goes down after more restrictions are passed against legitimate gun owners. You don`t get to pile up all the bad things that happen to excuse mistakes like this. This isn`t about good against evil but rather about people fucking up. I thought you guys were the party of personal responsibility? bush killed that ideal too?

BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/2/2012 8:19:54 PM)
What are you talking about?? I said right off that without a dramatic revelation (like one that completly negates everything we know) the AZ shooting is not justifiyed. I don't see anyone arguing that it was. But that doesn't mean we have to have a kneejerk opposition to anyone who claims self defense. You keep asking for documentation I gave it to you.

Nosathro -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/2/2012 8:59:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD How about the 9 and 10 year old who were killed by a man who invaded their home. Their 13 year old sister knew how to use firearms but couldn't get them because of Californias laws to protect children from evil guns required them to be locked up where she couldn't get to them. And your restrictions on self defense are still tantamount to handing over the streets to thug. Yes and if California were a seperate nation, California would have the third largest prison population in the world. Read more guns Less crime. It is a dry read but demonstrates that crime never goes up after concealed carry laws are passed and never goes down after more restrictions are passed against legitimate gun owners. Show me the proof on that one.

Nosathro -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/2/2012 9:02:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro A 1995 Northeastern study, this was before "Stand you Ground" laws, study people who claimed self defense, 48% of those who were killed, by people claiming self defense, did not have a weapon. Fuck your study. I don't confront people. I don't start fights. I mind my own business and leave everyone else alone. If someone fucks with me they better be wearing Kevlar. It is not incumbent upon me to determine whether you are armed or what your purpose for confronting me is. I would not have shot the guy at the Taco Bell drive-through but I absolutely would have brandished my weapon. I have done so on two occasions when people have gotten just a little too close for comfort. Unlike the wild west mantra you love to recite it has actually defused the situation peacefully both times. It was never removed from the holster nor was it ever pointed at anyone. It was only displayed. I take my own personal defense very seriously. I guess I place a higher value on human life then you. The sample of this study showed 3,000 people were killed by someone with a firearm and they did not have any weapon.

BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/2/2012 9:05:33 PM)
I'm not going to quote the whole book here. Check it out of the library it is a statistical analysys of the effects of gun laws on crime, including concealed carry. The book is the proof

Nosathro -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/2/2012 9:23:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I'm not going to quote the whole book here. Check it out of the library it is a statistical analysys of the effects of gun laws on crime, including concealed carry. The book is the proof Well here is a fact, California had some 316, 229 inmates..your state has some 28, 316 but don't worry...your state is trying to catch up to us.

BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/2/2012 9:28:57 PM)
I never said anything about the number of inmates anywhere, someone else imbedded that in my post. The only thing lots of criminals proves is the need to be able to defend yourself.

Nosathro -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/2/2012 9:36:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I'm not going to quote the whole book here. Check it out of the library it is a statistical analysys of the effects of gun laws on crime, including concealed carry. The book is the proof I assume you mean the work by John Lott....here a little bit of information on his work In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences conducted a review of current research and data on firearms and violent crime, including Lott's work, and found "no credible evidence that the passage of right-to-carry laws decreases or increases violent crime

BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/2/2012 10:38:53 PM)
None but the statistics he provided which where quite clear for example Fl saw a 30% decrease in crime in the 3 years after they passed concealed carry. The average drop was 3% with no case of a increase. Your review board started from your position and ignored anything that didn't agree with them.

Kirata -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/3/2012 12:04:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro 48% of those who were killed, by people claiming self defense, did not have a weapon. quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro 3,000 people were killed by someone with a firearm and they did not have any weapon. How about you start linking citations for your claims? I hope that isn't too wild an idea for you. K.

BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/3/2012 1:36:57 AM)
I will give a more precise answer. I watched the oral review of Lotts book. The reviewers were hung up on the idea that he did not allow for the cyclic nature of crime. However they did not insist on the same criteria concerning restrictive gun laws. If you accept that the cyclic nature of crime negates the 3% drop in crime (after leaving out Fl because tne drop there was so great as to warp the findings) then you must apply the same criteria to restrictive gun laws. This means that crime did not increase by 3% but by 6% so concealed carry is still better than restricting gun ownership. quote: ORIGINAL: Nosathro quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I'm not going to quote the whole book here. Check it out of the library it is a statistical analysys of the effects of gun laws on crime, including concealed carry. The book is the proof I assume you mean the work by John Lott....here a little bit of information on his work In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences conducted a review of current research and data on firearms and violent crime, including Lott's work, and found "no credible evidence that the passage of right-to-carry laws decreases or increases violent crime

BamaD -> RE: Stand Your Ground II (6/3/2012 1:40:40 AM)
The DC gun ban worked according to it's backers because it cut the % of murders committed with guns in half. The bad news is that the per capita murder rate with guns stayed the same but the overall murder rate doubled.

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