Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Actual "Leftist" Positions


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Actual "Leftist" Positions Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Actual "Leftist" Positions - 6/11/2012 8:13:59 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
"Leftist" is in quotes because any actual leftist is gonna read this and say wtf?

These are my positions. My actual positions, not the ones people continually make up for me. Some of them are left-leaning, if we consider green initiatives (no, not blindly all of them) and social justice (no, not automatically any cause), while others are frankly far to the right of today's version of "conservative," particularly economically.

No particular order, and not an exhaustive list.

1) Obama is a mediocre president. But he comes after a poor president, and given Romney as the alternative, I'll vote for re-election.

2) The Health Care law is flawed, but does many things that are long overdue, as is having something in place, finally breaking through that obstructionist barrier. I want this carried through in 2014. The status quo was simply unsustainable, including from the viewpoint of businesses providing coverage inflating at double digit rates.

3) The Supreme Court has decidedly become a partisan vehicle. That's unfortunate. But it's also not the first time in history. It will take time to undo this. Years.

4) Women have the right to choose about abortion. It's a medical decision and a private moral decision.

5) We have given up too much privacy in the mania of the Patriot Act and subsequent action. We will regret it.

6) Sensible regulation is crucial, and worth the cost. Banking, financial markets, energy, environment, labor, air travel, utilities--it's simply necessary.

7) The minimum wage hurts nothing. It's too low to hurt anything--it's below legitimate market rates (except in common areas of exploitation, such as migrant farm labor).

8) We are not being overrun by immigrants. We do need sensible immigration reform, including a path to citizenship.

9) The Department of Homeland Security is nothing but theater, a wasteful front to pretend to respond to 9/11.

10) Globalization is here to stay, and we benefit from it greatly. The same is true of our various free trade agreements--WTO, NAFTA, APEC, etc. People advocating protectionism have no clue what this would mean and how severely it would shut down our economy until we wised up and opened our borders again.

11) We do, however, need more meaningful international law. That's not going to be easy. One main barrier to that is attitudes and policy from the U.S., which does indeed act as a capricious bully with some frequency.

12) Social security is not in "crisis" -- it easily pays for itself, especially considering lifetime contributions, adjustments of those contributions for inflation, and return over a working lifetime. There are also many more workers--the population of the U.S. has tripled in my lifetime. What *is* a crisis is that those funds were borrowed to cover unfunded expenses elsewhere. That puts the borrower--the U.S. taxpayers--on the hook.

13) Medicare is more of a problem. It needs a drastic overhaul, and both parties know it. They're just reluctant to take it on because (a) it's political risky and (b) they don't know what to do. "Reforms" that are actually cuts are not the answer.

14) Fixing the federal debt will require ALL of these--ALL...any part is not gonna do it: (1) cutting defense, (2) adjusting social security and Medicaid/Medicare, (3) raising taxes (on everyone, including the rich--add additional upper tax brackets), (4) cutting spending--but discretionary spending is not enough to cover it, and is a red herring. Waiting to "grow" our way out of this is a fantasy. Not going to happen.

15) Our current mess is not any one president's or congress' fault at this point, and no one person can fix it. It's a severe structural problem, beginning with the Bush tax cuts and compounded by unfunded wars. We will be stuck here for a decade or two, no matter who is elected. Obama's big mistake was to raise expectations.

16) We can be building buildings that use very little energy, very affordable, and we should be building most buildings this way. This includes houses under $150,000 (higher where values are high).

17) People are living far beyond their means, especially driving cars they can't actually afford. If they demanded more reasonable cars, they'd get them, but first they have to wake up and realize a 7 year car loan is dumb.

18) There is always work, or the worker can create work. But people honestly don't know how to find those "hidden" jobs or how to create their own work--not a criticism, as this can be difficult. Training would help.

19) Most--yes, MOST--business owners know little about business. It's why they flail about when conditions change. Again, this is harder than it looks, so not a criticism. It's hard to tell business people this--they don't want to hear it, preferring to assign outside blame.

20) We need a green/local/permaculture/biodiversity revolution in the U.S., in the cities as well as the country--community gardens, green rooftops, container gardens, window boxes, and so forth. Take control of our food back from the petroleum industry. Eat real food, not processed. This plus exercise would help the U.S. obesity epidemic.

21) Sensible gun legislation does not violate the second Amendment.

22) The founders did not intend to orchestrate an armed rebellion.

23) The notion that legalizing pot would prove a tax revenue boon is insane. Honestly--people already engaged in illegal activities are going to start paying taxes on those activities?

24) The death penalty is expensive retribution, not justice.

25) Unions are not an economic problem. They simply don't have the power to influence wages people believe they have, still being bound by market conditions (see an economics text). The current pension issues are governments who failed to responsibly plan for their fiscal obligations, preferring to spend on otherwise unfunded expenditures and to hope for continual growth to cover their tracks. They got caught, and want to blame unions.


That's enough for now. Here's a little guidance on generic responses and my replies, to save time.

I. Q - "So what you're saying is __________"
A - Fuck you. Read my actual position, instead of making one up.

II. Q - "Typical leftist _________________"
A - Address what's in the actual position, instead of making one up.

I think you get the pattern.

From there, if you want to make up positions for me, I'm not needed for the conversation--just your imaginary friend.

Enjoy!



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 6/11/2012 8:30:25 AM >
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Actual "Leftist" Positions - 6/11/2012 8:25:24 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
I agree in the main, but not at all with 10 and 17 is a great cause of it, and therefore tarriffing in addition to 14 as stated.  13 you mean parties and not parities (so someone dont take that out of context  (see, cuz I really know what you're saying is....).

(and 22 sorta agree but I will not comment in total on that one)



< Message edited by mnottertail -- 6/11/2012 8:30:14 AM >


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Actual "Leftist" Positions - 6/11/2012 8:31:24 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
You...you mean....weren't not all exactly identical, with identical views????????????

*GASP*

Fixed 13. Thanks!

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Actual "Leftist" Positions - 6/11/2012 8:46:24 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
I have other minor cavils here and there, with some of the others, but not so big you could throw a garbage can thru the opening.

However, I want us out of the goddamn global economy in the way we are in it currently, I am for heavy tarriffs on alot of goods, expecially in those countries where we have let them come into our dumping and whatnot but face massive barriers in theirs.

Now, for instance (and this is a side issue only whimsically attached to the previous para) our GM running into China, yes, they have a demand, the Chinese government is supporting their foray their, but the idea will be (as has happened at every turn) that GM will be out on their ear after we turn over all our automaking abilities and intelligence to them.  

In terms of defense, even that old English customs house director during our war of independence, Adam 'invisible hand' Smith (which everyone takes that sentence out of context) was for tarriffs to keep defense proprietary.



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Actual "Leftist" Positions - 6/11/2012 12:18:04 PM   
LizDeluxe


Posts: 687
Joined: 10/2/2011
Status: offline
Quoting Musicmystery:

1) Obama is a mediocre president. But he comes after a poor president, and given Romney as the alternative, I'll vote for re-election.

I'd rate all three mediocre. Not encouraging that a country of this many people has so little to offer on election day. I don't agree with much of what Obama says or does but the upside is that since he does so little maybe another four more years will not kill us.

3) The Supreme Court has decidedly become a partisan vehicle. That's unfortunate. But it's also not the first time in history. It will take time to undo this. Years.

The SCOTUS has always been partisan (in my lifetime, at least). Never before in history have so many cried foul about it. The implication is that a Democrat president would strive to equalize the SCOTUS. Laughable.

8) We are not being overrun by immigrants. We do need sensible immigration reform, including a path to citizenship.

I seem to recall that you live in the far Northeast USA. Maybe you should get out more often.

15) Our current mess is not any one president's or congress' fault at this point, and no one person can fix it. It's a severe structural problem, beginning with the Bush tax cuts and compounded by unfunded wars. We will be stuck here for a decade or two, no matter who is elected. Obama's big mistake was to raise expectations.

Interesting that you state that it is no one person's fault only to highlight two items closely associated to Bush II.

21) Sensible gun legislation does not violate the second Amendment.

We already have sensible gun legislation in most areas.

22) The founders did not intend to orchestrate an armed rebellion.

I think the if the founders were here to today and saw the behemoth that government has become they would go back and rewrite the second amendment in capital letters with indelible ink.

23) The notion that legalizing pot would prove a tax revenue boon is insane. Honestly--people already engaged in illegal activities are going to start paying taxes on those activities?

I think there are many who choose not to use marijuana who would use it if it was legal and who would purchase commercially grown and taxed marijuana. I fit both of those categories and I do not feel I am alone. A boon? I don't know about that but I think it would be solid revenue.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Actual "Leftist" Positions - 6/11/2012 12:28:05 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

22) The founders did not intend to orchestrate an armed rebellion.

I think the if the founders were here to today and saw the behemoth that government has become they would go back and rewrite the second amendment in capital letters with indelible ink.


And maybe they would trade in their horses for automobiles. The times, they are a changin'

(in reply to LizDeluxe)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Actual "Leftist" Positions - 6/11/2012 1:16:56 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I. Q - "So what you're saying is __________"
A - Fuck you. Read my actual position, instead of making one up.

II. Q - "Typical leftist _________________"
A - Address what's in the actual position, instead of making one up.


I. Q -largely something I'm good with?

II, Q - Common Sense?

I find that I don't disagree enough to go into anything detailed.
The part about living beyond means I would contest (these days... THE FUCKING LAST OPPRESSident too care of that).

What do I win?


_____________________________

Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.




Tinfoilers Swallow


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Actual "Leftist" Positions - 6/11/2012 1:18:21 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
And maybe they would trade in their horses for automobiles. The times, they are a changin'


More like their muskets for M-16s.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Actual "Leftist" Positions - 6/11/2012 1:25:17 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

3) The Supreme Court has decidedly become a partisan vehicle. That's unfortunate. But it's also not the first time in history. It will take time to undo this. Years.

The SCOTUS has always been partisan (in my lifetime, at least). Never before in history have so many cried foul about it. The implication is that a Democrat president would strive to equalize the SCOTUS. Laughable.

You skipped the part about "So what you're saying is.______." See response. You're inventing a position I neither hold nor articulated. Talk about missing the point.

quote:

8) We are not being overrun by immigrants. We do need sensible immigration reform, including a path to citizenship.

I seem to recall that you live in the far Northeast USA. Maybe you should get out more often.

That was also Governor Bush's position in Texas and as U.S. President. Maybe he should get out more often. Or maybe you should read a newspaper from time to time.

quote:

15) Our current mess is not any one president's or congress' fault at this point, and no one person can fix it. It's a severe structural problem, beginning with the Bush tax cuts and compounded by unfunded wars. We will be stuck here for a decade or two, no matter who is elected. Obama's big mistake was to raise expectations.

Interesting that you state that it is no one person's fault only to highlight two items closely associated to Bush II.
Things typically are labeled by administration. They were his positions, but he certainly didn't accomplish them alone. Congress and Rumsfeld for starters.

(in reply to LizDeluxe)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Actual "Leftist" Positions - 6/11/2012 1:34:34 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:


You skipped the part about "So what you're saying is.______." See response. You're inventing a position I neither hold nor articulated. Talk about missing the point.


Reading words accurately, knowing what they really meant to mean in complex combinations (ie- multiple paragraphs), and overall comprehension are all separate things remember.


_____________________________

Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.




Tinfoilers Swallow


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Actual "Leftist" Positions - 6/11/2012 1:39:06 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
Is "straw man" easier to remember?


(in reply to SternSkipper)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Actual "Leftist" Positions - 6/11/2012 1:42:05 PM   
Fellow


Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

15) Our current mess is not any one president's or congress' fault at this point, and no one person can fix it. It's a severe structural problem, beginning with the Bush tax cuts and compounded by unfunded wars. We will be stuck here for a decade or two, no matter who is elected. Obama's big mistake was to raise expectations.


This is certainly wrong statement. Bush tax cuts were not good, but they did not change much. The seeds for crisis were planted much earlier. Some say it started with Nixon, some say the direction was set during late Carter administration. President Clinton was a major contributor to the crisis. Some suggest Obama maintaining office would be good, because the financial collapse is inevitable. Otherwise, the new president creates confusion, would take the blame, and ideological chaos could led to some crazy populist getting into the office.
The general question I have is if a single voter should consider a big picture and act accordingly or he should adjust into the Matrix created for them (like the author of the post).



(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Actual "Leftist" Positions - 6/11/2012 1:49:13 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
I don't think you clearly understand the economic meaning of structure.

We were in a sustainable structure through Clinton's administration. After 2000, we eliminated the surplus by (1) cutting taxes and (2) not only increasing spending, but doing it by creating new structural problems in Iraq and Afghanistan. McCain was being honest about this in the campaign--we will be there (and spending there) for decades in some form.

That's not a discretionary structure. Vastly more is going out than coming in. See #14--cuts and growth won't change it; the structural problem has to be changed.

(in reply to Fellow)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Actual "Leftist" Positions - 6/11/2012 2:10:10 PM   
Karmastic


Posts: 1650
Joined: 4/5/2012
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
i only read up to 10, too long. but bravo, agreed with all, well said too. except, the Supreme Court is less partisan, and more pro-mega-corporations; they sold out.

_____________________________

[Awaiting Approval]

If my experience level makes you feel superior, that is your problem, not mine.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Actual "Leftist" Positions - 6/11/2012 2:37:13 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Is "straw man" easier to remember?


Well ... It's LOADS fucking easier that "Photoshopped superman beer coolie with two grade large eggs stuffed in the top" and it does say "MAN"... So yeah, I'm good with that.


_____________________________

Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.




Tinfoilers Swallow


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Actual "Leftist" Positions - 6/11/2012 2:38:47 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I don't think you clearly understand the economic meaning of structure.


Along with a boatload of other basic concepts.


_____________________________

Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.




Tinfoilers Swallow


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Actual "Leftist" Positions - 6/11/2012 3:44:21 PM   
DaNewAgeViking


Posts: 1009
Joined: 4/29/2004
Status: offline
All in all I'd say you nailed it solidly. There are a few things I differ on, but nothing which can't be worked out with a little practical horse trading. (ANOTHER 'lefty' quality sorely lacking elsewhere.)

(in reply to SternSkipper)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Actual "Leftist" Positions - 6/11/2012 3:48:28 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
23) The notion that legalizing pot would prove a tax revenue boon is insane. Honestly--people already engaged in illegal activities are going to start paying taxes on those activities?

For this one you're actually arguing against historic facts.

When prohibition ended, people immediately went back to buying alcohol from legal sources. It was simply easier and more convenient for package stores and bars to operate legally and buyers prefered buying product that they could walk down the street with.

If pot is legalized some farmers who already grow some pot for illegal sales will expand their operations and partner with some national distribution network, likely the tobacco industry, and legally grown pot will be for legal sale nation wide at lower prices and better quality than what the dealers can carry.

Furthermore the cost savings of not arresting, prosecuting and jailing people caught with pot will in itself be a windfall for many local jurisdictions.

And no I do not smoke pot or intend to start if it is legalized

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Actual "Leftist" Positions - 6/11/2012 3:51:18 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

When prohibition ended, people immediately went back to buying alcohol from legal sources. It was simply easier and more convenient for package stores and bars to operate legally


That's because there were previously legal stores and bars.

That's not the case with pot.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Actual "Leftist" Positions - 6/11/2012 4:00:47 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I don't think you clearly understand the economic meaning of structure.

We were in a sustainable structure through Clinton's administration. After 2000, we eliminated the surplus by (1) cutting taxes and (2) not only increasing spending, but doing it by creating new structural problems in Iraq and Afghanistan. McCain was being honest about this in the campaign--we will be there (and spending there) for decades in some form.

That's not a discretionary structure. Vastly more is going out than coming in. See #14--cuts and growth won't change it; the structural problem has to be changed.



The dotcom boom was sustainable?

_____________________________

http://www.extra-life.org/

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Actual "Leftist" Positions Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.098