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Behaviour adjustment techniques, am i crazy? - 6/19/2012 12:47:24 PM

ARIES83

Posts: 3648
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I saw a post where someone used dog training
As an example for something and it made me
wonder...
Has anyone ever had something work so effectively
on Fido that they tried to sneek it in to their
Doming?
Or even purposely used mans best friend as a
Guinea pig to test out some new technique you
Had In mind for person-pet?

For me, It's a big stretch... To go from dog training
to relationship building, but I've often seen
similarities, I do shake my head when i hear
A couple saying how owning a dog really prepared
them for looking after a baby... But If it works...

So tell me, does hitting your sub with a rolled up
Newspaper, keep them off the furniture?

-ARIES

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RE: Behaviour adjustment techniques, am i crazy? - 6/19/2012 1:07:39 PM

OsideGirl

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The "clicker technique"?

Honestly, my thoughts were the same as yours during that thread. A dog has the intelligence of a toddler. I'd like to think that mine is slightly higher than that. We don't have a punishment dynamic, so when I mess up, it gets discussed and a plan is put into effect to attempt to prevent it from happening again. His disappointment is more than enough motivation for me.

That said the key to learning anything is repetition regardless of whether it's dog, horse or human.

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RE: Behaviour adjustment techniques, am i crazy? - 6/19/2012 1:55:43 PM

littlewonder

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I can tell you that Master has said on numerous occasions that he has learned a lot about domming from dog training.

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RE: Behaviour adjustment techniques, am i crazy? - 6/19/2012 3:32:45 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

So tell me, does hitting your sub with a rolled up
Newspaper, keep them off the furniture?

This would not work with me.

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RE: Behaviour adjustment techniques, am i crazy? - 6/19/2012 5:03:53 PM

littlewonder

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slapping or hitting me with anything within reach and his hand or foot keeps me off the furniture.

Oh yeah, he's hit me with rolled up newspapers and magazines quite often too. Ya know, you wouldn't think it would hurt, but ddaammnn it hurts!

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RE: Behaviour adjustment techniques, am i crazy? - 6/19/2012 5:06:39 PM

RaspberryLemon

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I don't think anyone is saying or trying to imply that humans are dogs, or that humans are on the same intellectual level as dogs, or that handling and management of both is done in the same way--they are referring to the similarities in principle.

The fundamentals of dog training are simple. It is about finding what motivates and reinforces, and finding a good way to communicate what you want to the animal. The same principles are what works behind human interaction, but the methods are usually different because--being humans--we can communicate with each other much more clearly and complexly than we can with a dog.

To give an example of what I meant above: If one English speaking human tells another English speaking human to "sit," it is clear what that person wants and if there is significant motivation, the person will do what is asked of them. With a dog, conditioning and repetition (whatever your method) must be used to show the dog the association between the word "sit" and the action of planting the butt down. And the motivation to complete the action--whether that be a treat, a toy, simply pleasing its owner, or even fear (in some (what I would classify as) abusive situations)--still needs to be there.

We can't simply explain things to dogs like we can with our fellow humans, so the methods used to communicate our ideas (and indeed, the motivations and reinforcements behind the compliance with our ideas) are going to be different, but in principle the same fundamentals are in effect.

Thus, I can certainly see why owning, raising, and training a dog could teach someone (or reveal to them) something about the fundamentals of managing authority over other people, and the similarities between how that is done with dogs and humans. Whether that be about raising children, managing employees, commanding troops, or dominating a submissive partner, the same fundamentals are there.

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RE: Behaviour adjustment techniques, am i crazy? - 6/19/2012 6:34:34 PM

ProlificNeeds

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Many dog trainers will tell you that to lead a dog, you must be seen as the alpha of the family group.

Not to say you should bite and growl at your sub to put them into place, but learning to silently lead through confidence and assertion goes a long way towards influencing people, not just dogs.

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RE: Behaviour adjustment techniques, am i crazy? - 6/19/2012 8:26:48 PM

JstAnotherSub

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Biting and growling might be fun sometimes too!

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RE: Behaviour adjustment techniques, am i crazy? - 6/19/2012 9:58:34 PM

MissToYouRedux

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Hey, I swear by my "How to make your man behave in 21 days or less using the secrets of professional dog trainers " !

(by Karen Salmansohn)

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RE: Behaviour adjustment techniques, am i crazy? - 6/19/2012 10:46:56 PM

ARIES83

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissToYouRedux

Hey, I swear by my "How to make your man behave in 21 days or less using the secrets of professional dog trainers " !

(by Karen Salmansohn)

Is that really an actual thing?... Sound made up...
Umm... What tricks can he do? Heh

-ARIES

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RE: Behaviour adjustment techniques, am i crazy? - 6/20/2012 1:28:08 AM

MissToYouRedux

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissToYouRedux

Hey, I swear by my "How to make your man behave in 21 days or less using the secrets of professional dog trainers " !

(by Karen Salmansohn)

Is that really an actual thing?... Sound made up...
Umm... What tricks can he do? Heh

-ARIES

It's a real book. Lol You can find it on Amazon (she's written a lot) I loved the illustrations by Alison Seiffer, too. It all starts with being the pack leader...

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RE: Behaviour adjustment techniques, am i crazy? - 6/20/2012 4:43:03 AM

Focus50

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From: Newcastle, Australia
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Doggy sex has always worked for me....

Focus.

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RE: Behaviour adjustment techniques, am i crazy? - 6/20/2012 8:27:40 AM

littlewonder

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

Biting and growling might be fun sometimes too!

Biting would lead to him being angry with me...nonono.

Growling though? Oh he loves it when he gets me to a point where I'm growling usually from the pain or frustration lol.

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RE: Behaviour adjustment techniques, am i crazy? - 6/20/2012 8:44:21 AM

DesFIP

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I normally explain things through horse training personally. If it takes one horse ten minutes to learn something and another two weeks, you can bet money that the one that worked on it for two weeks will remember it a lot longer than the one that only had ten minutes training.

It isn't about training the dog, or the horse. It's about training the owner to be consistent and to think things through. No bad dogs, just bad dog owners - remember?

And if your dog pooped in the house because you aren't taking him out often enough and long enough, the person who should be hit with the newspaper isn't the dog, but you.

But yes, learning the difference between punishment, negative reinforcement, positive reinforcement and reward would do wonders for any animal or human owner.

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RE: Behaviour adjustment techniques, am i crazy? - 6/20/2012 9:56:30 AM

JeffBC

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From: Canada
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I find the question odd. I pretty much see training a dog and training Carol as very similar. In the end, it's all about my dominance and her submission. To quote Cesar... it's all about me having a calm assertive energy.

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RE: Behaviour adjustment techniques, am i crazy? - 6/20/2012 10:14:11 AM

JstAnotherSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

Biting and growling might be fun sometimes too!

Biting would lead to him being angry with me...nonono.

Growling though? Oh he loves it when he gets me to a point where I'm growling usually from the pain or frustration lol.

quote:

Not to say you should bite and growl at your sub to put them into place, but learning to silently lead through confidence and assertion goes a long way towards influencing people, not just dogs.

Him doing the biting and growling, not you!

Yeah, I would imagine biting him would lead to, ummmm, consequences-lolol.

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RE: Behaviour adjustment techniques, am i crazy? - 6/20/2012 10:22:13 AM

littlewonder

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He does the cackling and maniacal laugh. He leaves the growling up to me.

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RE: Behaviour adjustment techniques, am i crazy? - 6/20/2012 10:35:02 AM

chatterbox24

Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I normally explain things through horse training personally. If it takes one horse ten minutes to learn something and another two weeks, you can bet money that the one that worked on it for two weeks will remember it a lot longer than the one that only had ten minutes training.

It isn't about training the dog, or the horse. It's about training the owner to be consistent and to think things through. No bad dogs, just bad dog owners - remember?

And if your dog pooped in the house because you aren't taking him out often enough and long enough, the person who should be hit with the newspaper isn't the dog, but you.

But yes, learning the difference between punishment, negative reinforcement, positive reinforcement and reward would do wonders for any animal or human owner.

Good post, I like it.

Im not pooping on the floor as much as I used too. lol.

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RE: Behaviour adjustment techniques, am i crazy? - 6/20/2012 4:23:58 PM

ARIES83

Posts: 3648
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Alot of great points, heres my experience
With it.
When I got my current dog, I was determined
To read all I could about dog training and
Watched a fair few dvds e.c.t.
I really wanted him to be perfectly trained,
This was probably because he is the first
Dog that is totaly mine, the other dogs ive
Had throughout childhood and when in other
Relationships, were either family dogs or
more belonging to other people.

Also I've seen the results of lack of direction
and lazy upbringing on dogs and didn't want
The bad behaviours, I grew up with a single
Mum and three little sisters, as the oldest, and
Only guy, I was resident dog hunter when he
Dug out and ran away... Which was often,
No matter how much you walked him...
But as girls do, if i tried to correct the bad
behaviour ( sometimes with "dog smacks")
It would trigger a gang of whining girls to come
and Harrass me haha.

Now, when family comes over for a visit they
almost always comment on how well behaved
My dog is and how the other dogs they've had
Use to be really disobedient... I wonder why...
Haha.

So in my experience of the actual dog training,
What I've come to do now is, use positive and
Negative reinforcement to "bracket" a certain
Behaviour, then I try and create situations where
my dog has the inclination to use the behaviour
and I then deal with it, why do I create situations
Which tempt the dog to use the behaviour?
I find that spontaneous real world situations arn't
Controlled enough, I obviously deal with behaviours
That happen spontaneously as well, but I find that
In a controled situation, you can very clearly get the
Dog to understand specifically, why he is being
Punished or rewarded.

I find the key to having you dog love and be loyal to you
Is, show him heaps of affection and attention even
When theres no training involved, spend heaps of time
With him, and involve him in activities you like to do.

Now with Being a Dom... I can't really apply alot of how
I train dogs... Sure everything above looks easy enough
To put into practice on a sub, but I've found its not so
Cut and dry. A solid way to learn some foundational
Stuff, certainly! And a great hobby for a Dom haha.
Maybe Im just a better dog trainer than a Dom,
My dog can do sign language...

-ARIES

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RE: Behaviour adjustment techniques, am i crazy? - 6/21/2012 2:04:12 PM

landrezy

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A lot of credence is lent to this theory by current behavioral studies. We're not as evolved as we like to give ourselves credit for.

Dogs are simpler than humans, but simpler is often better. Less variables and less mess. If you understand the fundamentals of dog training, you understand the fundamentals of training humans. I've never met a Dom with a poorly trained pet.

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