Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Book Burning Party at Library


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Book Burning Party at Library Page: [1] 2 3 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Book Burning Party at Library - 6/19/2012 1:25:43 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
People don't often act "for" -- they react against. That's the Tea Party incarnate.

Not this time! Sheer genius!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw3zNNO5gX0&feature=player_embedded
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/19/2012 1:36:42 PM   
calamitysandra


Posts: 1682
Joined: 3/17/2006
Status: offline
Very, very cool!

_____________________________

"Whenever people are laughing, they are generally not killing one another"
Alan Alda


(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/19/2012 1:38:48 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
Wow......talk about the power of the pen......


All the money in the world can`t kill good ideas.......

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/19/2012 1:55:38 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline
Love it!!!

_____________________________

yep

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/19/2012 3:11:11 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
That was a very good video! And the concept not only did as it needed for the library, but had a turn out several times higher than expected. The Tea Party hates education, intelligence, wisdom, and being American.....apparently. Without places of learning, a society is doomed to failure. They should install cameras inside that library and record just how many Tea Party morons go in to access any part of it. Just to show a bit more evidence of the level of hypocrisy among the Tea Party members. I wonder how many Tea Party members even know the Dewy Decimal System?

Again, great post MM!

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/19/2012 5:04:01 PM   
Karmastic


Posts: 1650
Joined: 4/5/2012
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
wow wow wow BRILLIANT!

great vid.

i still would have voted against increasing taxes for the library. all this stuff used to generally come out of the general fund. as state and city budgets have become bloated and strained, they have continually put up more and more bond measures, or tax increases, for things that should come out of the general fund. people voting "yes" to "save" this or that just feeds into this cycle. cut to 30 years later, and we literally have billions and billions of more debt collectively (bonds), and all these costs are in reality, new taxes.

the tea party did have it right on that count. i think it's absurd and silly to claim they don't like libraries.



_____________________________

[Awaiting Approval]

If my experience level makes you feel superior, that is your problem, not mine.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/19/2012 11:21:09 PM   
calamitysandra


Posts: 1682
Joined: 3/17/2006
Status: offline
But without the increase, the library would have been closed. I would rather have a library in my community, than to make my stand on tax issues about this. Sometimes the greater good comes first.

_____________________________

"Whenever people are laughing, they are generally not killing one another"
Alan Alda


(in reply to Karmastic)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 4:18:06 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic
wow wow wow BRILLIANT!

great vid.

i still would have voted against increasing taxes for the library. all this stuff used to generally come out of the general fund. as state and city budgets have become bloated and strained, they have continually put up more and more bond measures, or tax increases, for things that should come out of the general fund. people voting "yes" to "save" this or that just feeds into this cycle. cut to 30 years later, and we literally have billions and billions of more debt collectively (bonds), and all these costs are in reality, new taxes.

the tea party did have it right on that count. i think it's absurd and silly to claim they don't like libraries.


And you would have been in the minority. The tiny minority.....

Since I do believe they said that vote was a landslide.

(in reply to Karmastic)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 6:43:24 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic

wow wow wow BRILLIANT!

great vid.

i still would have voted against increasing taxes for the library. all this stuff used to generally come out of the general fund. as state and city budgets have become bloated and strained, they have continually put up more and more bond measures, or tax increases, for things that should come out of the general fund. people voting "yes" to "save" this or that just feeds into this cycle. cut to 30 years later, and we literally have billions and billions of more debt collectively (bonds), and all these costs are in reality, new taxes.

the tea party did have it right on that count. i think it's absurd and silly to claim they don't like libraries.



Then you're a little slow on the uptake. The Tea Party was actively opposing the 0.7% specifically for library funding in order to keep it.

Where, exactly, do you suppose the funding for the "general fund" springs? As expenses rise, the spring just renews itself magically?

State and city budgets have become "bloated and strained" because the maniac drive to cut federal spending and taxes for the past three decades while not funding mandates has put that burden on states and cities, who lose the advantage of economies of scale (the evil bureaucracies!) and have to recreate and administer themselves less effectively and less cost-efficient.

Costs should not be cut blindly, but in terms of returns on the cost. My new house has several features that I could do more cheaply--but at a greater long term cost. Same with my car.

Brings us back to whether education and the means to knowledge are a good investment.

We know where you and the Teas stand. Thankfully, in the minority.

But again--in reaction against, not a stand for.

(in reply to Karmastic)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 7:03:57 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

But without the increase, the library would have been closed. I would rather have a library in my community, than to make my stand on tax issues about this. Sometimes the greater good comes first.

Liberal!


_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to calamitysandra)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 8:04:57 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
Next thing she'll be reading those books, then telling others about them--then what???

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 8:24:25 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
It is a cool video but there is always more than one side to these type of stories. Now I don’t know the particulars there in Troy but in my town I do.

Our library had within the last ten years asked for and received a tax to upgrade the building… which they did. Then three years ago they went before the people asking for a large tax increase to completely tear down the facility and rebuild it.

They said if the bond issue failed they would have to curtail hours and lay off workers and perhaps close the library all together.

Will the issue failed…and guess what… they did not close… did not lay off any workers…and did not curtail hours.

Then they came back asking for money for specific repairs, pennies on the dollar compared to rebuilding… and they were approved by the people. We now have a beautiful old efficiently green building that houses our library.

Carte blanche tax increases are not always the best route to follow even when it comes to libraries.

Of course anything the Tea party is for most here are against... mostly the same with me but I will guess there is a little more to the story.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 8:30:52 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

anything the Tea party is for most here are against


That's just as silly. Fiscal responsibility, for example.

Your example has NOTHING to do with the case in Troy. No new building. No contrived threats. No carte blanche. Instead, a referendum on allowing a small increase to continue library operations drew a well-funded and vocal response from a national group ready to shout at any tax increase whatsoever.

A few smart people changed the conversation back to the issue--the library.

Your example DOES demonstrate well how much better things work with straight-forward, honest information.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 8:40:52 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
This may very well be true but remember you did not post a link to any opposing views. Now if it is as you say I agree with you and the video.

We all know how one sided youtube videos can twist the facts or change perspective.

I think it is pertinent to point out that there may have been good reasons the Tea Party was against the increase that were not shown or referred to in the video...and maybe not.

I also wanted to point out that tax increases need not be so polarizing…just because someone is against a tax for a library does not make them book burners.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 8:46:59 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

just because someone is against a tax for a library does not make them book burners.


And that's the point of the OP. People weren't FOR the library--they were AGAINST the book burners. The TEAS weren't the book burners--the ads clearly said this was a party for AFTER the library closed.

This shifted the attention from the Teas to the Book Burners. Then the Book Burners came clean, revealed their real purpose and issue, and only THEN was support strong for the library.

You have further illustrated my point. People don't come out for--they come out against.

Reaction, not action.


< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 6/20/2012 8:48:02 AM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 8:58:34 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
So you believe people in general must be manipulated and fooled into voting for one thing because they are against another?

I do guess you are right in that assessment because the result supports it...what a shame

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 9:00:28 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
No. People are motivated by reaction, not by pursuing their objectives.

AND--people listen to the loudest voices.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 6/20/2012 9:01:30 AM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 9:02:28 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
Either way it does not say much for the voting public...and that is a shame.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 9:41:06 AM   
SadistDave


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
And then there is the rest of the story...

This is the town hall meeting in Troy prior to the vote. If you bother wading through the entire 60 minutes of it you will find out a few interesting things about the library issue. The media campaign on burning books, as clever as it may have been, was a lie based on a lie.

- This vote was all about where the funding was going to come from. The city of Troy had about a 12-13 million dollar surplus that was growing in 2011 when this was going on.

- The vote to add the $.07 tax to fund the library as party of the general city fund had failed 2 times prior to the 2011 vote being discussed here. Since February 2010, the city's scare tactics have included threats to close down the museums, civic centers, and reduce ital city services in spite of the growing surplus the city is enjoying.

- This tax is legally tied to the Library, and cannot be used for anything else. This time, the city council presented this as an emergency due to lack of funding, and they deliberately cut the funding to the library even though the city was operating at a surplus in order to push the tax issue. In spite of the 12-13 million dollar surplus in city coffers, the council voted to bully the city of Troy Michigan by putting the issue up for vote again with the decision already agreed and voted upon in council that they would de-fund the library completely if the vote failed.

- Both sides agree that the city would not have received revenues for 6 months if the vote passed. As the city council presented the issue, the city would not have the money to fund the library and it would have closed the next month if the tax was voted down. However, the city council would have mysteriously had enough money to fund it for 6 months IF the vote passed.

- The library costs approximately 2.5 million dollars a year to run at peak efficiency. Along with the growing revenue that the city was already seeing, the No voters had also brought forward a list of programs that were less important than the library and should (in their opinion) have been cut before the Library had even seen a funding reduction. Those programs cost the city 6 million dollars annually.

- The city of Troy had recently renegotiated city worker contracts and the unions had agreed to a 10% reduction in benefits across the board. That saved the city 3.4 million dollars per year. (More than enough to cover the cost of the library.) However, the city council refused to factor that 3.4 million dollars into their budget. At the time of the debate, that 3.4 million dollars was not in the budget, and the whereabouts of the money was not disclosed by the council member on the Yes panel.

It appears that the city of Troy was bamboozled into voting for a tax that they would not have needed if their city council had been doing it's job correctly.

-SD-

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 11:03:38 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

The media campaign on burning books, as clever as it may have been, was a lie based on a lie.


Again, that was entirely the point.

The city had separated this issue out and tied it to a tax increase. The Teas swept in, no taxes. The Book Burning was a hoax, set for three days after the library closed, to shift the discussion from "OMG!!!! TAXES!!!!" to whether the town wanted to fund the library even if it meant a 0.07% tax. When they revealed the true nature of the campaign, now talking about whether the town wanted to fund the library instead of "OMG!!!! TAXES!!!!!," turns out the town wanted to do just that.

Thanks for the backstory, but it's hardly "the other side."

(in reply to SadistDave)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3 4   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Book Burning Party at Library Page: [1] 2 3 4   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.107