quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

I think that the city council manipulating the situation to create an emergency that did not exist in the first place IS actually quite a different story than the one the book burning lie was based on.

Thank you for your typically ignorant response.

-SD-

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave

I think that the city council manipulating the situation to create an emergency that did not exist in the first place IS actually quite a different story than the one the book burning lie was based on.

Thank you for your typically ignorant response.

-SD-

Because of the City Council's actions, this was up for a vote. A no vote was to kill the library. Yes, that was manipulative, forcing people to look at what they wanted while allocating money elsewhere.

That left, though, The Library vs. The Tax, and the ignorant Teas swept in to cry "OMG!!! TAXES!!!!" The campaign smartly shifted the debate back to the referendum on the library.

The next story might well be voting out the manipulative city council members. But two separate issues.

And I managed to make that point without having to resort to "you're ignorant."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic

wow wow wow BRILLIANT!

great vid.

i still would have voted against increasing taxes for the library. all this stuff used to generally come out of the general fund. as state and city budgets have become bloated and strained, they have continually put up more and more bond measures, or tax increases, for things that should come out of the general fund. people voting "yes" to "save" this or that just feeds into this cycle. cut to 30 years later, and we literally have billions and billions of more debt collectively (bonds), and all these costs are in reality, new taxes.

the tea party did have it right on that count. i think it's absurd and silly to claim they don't like libraries.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

But without the increase, the library would have been closed. I would rather have a library in my community, than to make my stand on tax issues about this. Sometimes the greater good comes first.

Liberal!

quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave
So, you have no problem with the fact that the city council lied about there even being a need for the tax in the first place?

Do you also not have a problem with them lying about the millions of dollars available to fund the library?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave
Do you not have a problem with the fact that the campaign was a intentionally designed to paint the opposition as the cause of the problem by the very people who really did cause the problem?

quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

But without the increase, the library would have been closed. I would rather have a library in my community, than to make my stand on tax issues about this. Sometimes the greater good comes first.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic
wow wow wow BRILLIANT!

great vid.

i still would have voted against increasing taxes for the library. all this stuff used to generally come out of the general fund. as state and city budgets have become bloated and strained, they have continually put up more and more bond measures, or tax increases, for things that should come out of the general fund. people voting "yes" to "save" this or that just feeds into this cycle. cut to 30 years later, and we literally have billions and billions of more debt collectively (bonds), and all these costs are in reality, new taxes.

the tea party did have it right on that count. i think it's absurd and silly to claim they don't like libraries.

And you would have been in the minority. The tiny minority.....

Since I do believe they said that vote was a landslide.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic

wow wow wow BRILLIANT!

great vid.

i still would have voted against increasing taxes for the library. all this stuff used to generally come out of the general fund. as state and city budgets have become bloated and strained, they have continually put up more and more bond measures, or tax increases, for things that should come out of the general fund. people voting "yes" to "save" this or that just feeds into this cycle. cut to 30 years later, and we literally have billions and billions of more debt collectively (bonds), and all these costs are in reality, new taxes.

the tea party did have it right on that count. i think it's absurd and silly to claim they don't like libraries.

Then you're a little slow on the uptake. The Tea Party was actively opposing the 0.7% specifically for library funding in order to keep it.

Where, exactly, do you suppose the funding for the "general fund" springs? As expenses rise, the spring just renews itself magically?

State and city budgets have become "bloated and strained" because the maniac drive to cut federal spending and taxes for the past three decades while not funding mandates has put that burden on states and cities, who lose the advantage of economies of scale (the evil bureaucracies!) and have to recreate and administer themselves less effectively and less cost-efficient.

Costs should not be cut blindly, but in terms of returns on the cost. My new house has several features that I could do more cheaply--but at a greater long term cost. Same with my car.

Brings us back to whether education and the means to knowledge are a good investment.

We know where you and the Teas stand. Thankfully, in the minority.

But again--in reaction against, not a stand for.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
...Then the Book Burners came clean, revealed their real purpose and issue, and only THEN was support strong for the library.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
...Then the Book Burners came clean, revealed their real purpose and issue, and only THEN was support strong for the library.

You assumed many or most people saw the later revelation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic
the tea party did have it right on that count. i think it's absurd and silly to claim they don't like libraries.

And you would have been in the minority. The tiny minority.....

Since I do believe they said that vote was a landslide.

yeppers, no argument there. perhaps, it's a testament to what the article alluded to - people are stupid sheep, and actually thought a "no" vote meant they were voting to prevent a book burning, literally.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic

wow wow wow BRILLIANT!

great vid.

i still would have voted against increasing taxes for the library. all this stuff used to generally come out of the general fund. as state and city budgets have become bloated and strained, they have continually put up more and more bond measures, or tax increases, for things that should come out of the general fund. people voting "yes" to "save" this or that just feeds into this cycle. cut to 30 years later, and we literally have billions and billions of more debt collectively (bonds), and all these costs are in reality, new taxes.

the tea party did have it right on that count. i think it's absurd and silly to claim they don't like libraries.

Then you're a little slow on the uptake. The Tea Party was actively opposing the 0.7% specifically for library funding in order to keep it.

Where, exactly, do you suppose the funding for the "general fund" springs? As expenses rise, the spring just renews itself magically?

State and city budgets have become "bloated and strained" because the maniac drive to cut federal spending and taxes for the past three decades while not funding mandates has put that burden on states and cities, who lose the advantage of economies of scale (the evil bureaucracies!) and have to recreate and administer themselves less effectively and less cost-efficient.

Costs should not be cut blindly, but in terms of returns on the cost. My new house has several features that I could do more cheaply--but at a greater long term cost. Same with my car.

Brings us back to whether education and the means to knowledge are a good investment.

We know where you and the Teas stand. Thankfully, in the minority.

But again--in reaction against, not a stand for.

Where did i write anything that remotely pertains to how you responded?

<snip>various gratuitous insults in place of any argument</snip>

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic

wow wow wow BRILLIANT!

great vid.

i still would have voted against increasing taxes for the library. all this stuff used to generally come out of the general fund. as state and city budgets have become bloated and strained, they have continually put up more and more bond measures, or tax increases, for things that should come out of the general fund. people voting "yes" to "save" this or that just feeds into this cycle. cut to 30 years later, and we literally have billions and billions of more debt collectively (bonds), and all these costs are in reality, new taxes.

the tea party did have it right on that count. i think it's absurd and silly to claim they don't like libraries.

I think that it is silly and absurd to think that a government that is forced to close down not just libraries, but many thousands of schools across the nation (eight schools in my -one- county, alone) is more "bloated" than the corporations, banks especially, who award massive business failure with $5-$22 million in bonuses for driving the entire national economy into the tank. Whence all the closings.

When do we start closing more CEO offices? That would be eminently more efficacious.

The severe shortfall in government revenues is the result of fiscally inane tax cuts when not at all called for, in significant measure. But far more damaging, as it turns out, from utterly insane deregulation. Every financial regulatory agency played tag-along thereon.

When you open up a barn-sized door to the US Treasury to the financial industry, as the deregulation of 1999 and 2000 did, we can only wonder at the seeming temperance of such party in waiting so long to dive in.

As it turns out, it was not so much a matter of any sense of courteous temporary probity on their part as it was in taking that long to hire all the new lawyers and finance PhDs and further lobbying to take full advantage, so as to obtain the largest mining scoop possible to dig it all out.


PS

Mining scoops are as large as the typical foreclosed house. What coincidence ...

Hire the local dump trucks to haul the municipal and personal credit destruction away, hire a convoy of supertankers to haul the cash away for the effort. That's the formula.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
...Then the Book Burners came clean, revealed their real purpose and issue, and only THEN was support strong for the library.

You assumed many or most people saw the later revelation.

Yes, I figured people commenting would take the time to find out what they were commenting on. It would help them to not appear as total idiots.

It is, after all, the topic of the discussion. And right in the OP.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic
yeppers, no argument there. perhaps, it's a testament to what the article alluded to - people are stupid sheep, and actually thought a "no" vote meant they were voting to prevent a book burning, literally.