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RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 3:54:36 PM   
Edwynn


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No.

I am saying that in the absence of such fiscal and especially deregulatory fiascos as we have had, the revenue shortfalls that even bring up such piece-meal local tax issues would not even be needed.

I see your point, all along, I should have made that clear from the outset.

But we have to get to the source of the problem.

BTW, identification of corporate bloat and subsequent cost to the economy is not my opinion, it is established fact.






< Message edited by Edwynn -- 6/20/2012 3:59:17 PM >

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RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 3:57:00 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Jane, you ignorant slut, people , as in the voter's you referred to, not us.


WHAT is your problem?

The change was noted on their Facebook page, and the interaction went from negative to positive. They were then flooded with positive comments.

Hello.

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RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 3:57:19 PM   
Karmastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic
the tea party did have it right on that count. i think it's absurd and silly to claim they don't like libraries.


And you would have been in the minority. The tiny minority.....

Since I do believe they said that vote was a landslide.

yeppers, no argument there. perhaps, it's a testament to what the article alluded to - people are stupid sheep, and actually thought a "no" vote meant they were voting to prevent a book burning, literally.



Just as the Reagan mantra of "getting the government off our backs" has now saddled the country (by way of siphoning of muchas tax dollars by the private sector) with being burdened for some years to come with corporate ineptitude and licentiousness.

i agree, good synopsis. i never even went where you jumped to, so not sure if you're actually trying to disagree with me - that would be funny. :)

Close more libraries and schools; create more jobs.

i suppose this is making fun of republicans? dunno, don't care. spurious and red herring. it's about where to spend the money, and not increasing taxes for single shortfalls.

Is that how it works?

well skipper, you tell me? your style is entertaining :)



see my answers in bold above :)


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RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 4:00:17 PM   
Karmastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic
yeppers, no argument there. perhaps, it's a testament to what the article alluded to - people are stupid sheep, and actually thought a "no" vote meant they were voting to prevent a book burning, literally.


To believe that would have been 'George W. Bush' stupid. No, the people knew exactly what the vote was about and decided the charge was worth the merit. I am going to take the educated guess that when the library explained its true intentions, most people got a laugh and a sigh of relief; but understood what was at stack.

lol! i think plenty of people are that stupid :)

more than that, you're assuming people saw the later message. speaking simply from life experience, that's a big jump. it's kinda a small point anyway, and regardless, it's fine to disagree. peace.


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RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 4:02:49 PM   
Edwynn


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I think that the last 30 years' incarnation of Rep. presidents have done a lot to make people accept Dem. presidents that no thinking person should accept.

How's that?



< Message edited by Edwynn -- 6/20/2012 4:11:28 PM >

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RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 4:06:41 PM   
Edwynn


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Funny, ain't it?

"It's not about the Presidents," I keep saying, in the political sense, where I am out of my element.

But it's all about the presidents, referring to the faces on the currency.



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RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 4:10:45 PM   
Karmastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


No.

I am saying that in the absence of such fiscal and especially deregulatory fiascos as we have had, the revenue shortfalls that even bring up such piece-meal local tax issues would not even be needed.

I see your point, all along, I should have made that clear from the outset.

But we have to get to the source of the problem.

BTW, identification of corporate bloat and subsequent cost to the economy is not my opinion, it is established fact.







okay, great. i think there's a few layers here. the one you seem to be espousing is the real cost to the economy of society having to pay for corporations when they fail, but not getting the upside when they don't. and obscene salaries and bonuses, even when they fail. and the excessive govt contacts, feeding at the trough.

but i'm more interested in this thread, and specifically, how the city government framed it a certain way, using fear and half truths. oh, we have to close the library unless we increase taxes. it could have been anything.

we as a society, make choices on what we fund. my only beef was, don't automatically jump to increasing taxes for budget shortfalls. i didn't even go down the road of the waste that exponentially exacerbates the problem of limited funding for competing social priorities.


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RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 4:18:37 PM   
Karmastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Jane, you ignorant slut, people , as in the voter's you referred to, not us.


WHAT is your problem?

The change was noted on their Facebook page, and the interaction went from negative to positive. They were then flooded with positive comments.

Hello.

huh? I thought you were old enough to remember the joke, Jane you ignorant slut, from Sat Night Live. No offense sparky! You can sure dish it, so please have the sense of humor when it's returned.

Let's review...

You said the library came clean, and everyone (people, voters) saw them come clean, and thus knew what they were voting for.

I said many people (voters) probably never saw the later message, and you assume they did. And used the SNL joke. Period.

You condescendingly assumed I hadn't read all linked threads (imagine that happening, oh my).

And you incorrectly assumed when I replied to you speaking about voters, that I thought you were referring to us in this thread, as-in not reading all links. (that was a gem )

And now you're rehashing what happened on FB.

If you're going to refute my disagreement of your statement, please do follow your own thread ;)


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RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 4:24:15 PM   
Karmastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


I think that the last 30 years' incarnation of Rep. presidents have done a lot to make people accept Dem. presidents that no thinking person should accept.

How's that?



bwaaa hahahaha, i love it!

not sure i agree that the big O is that bad.

but i do agree the republicans are the real tax and spend party. it's just a different kinda spending (trickle down). and not with exponential increases in the national debt and GDP to debt ratio (what is it, like 98% now?). Big O is the first Democratic president to out do the republicans on further exponentially mortgaging our future. We will eventually follow Greece, before the world has one fucktastic financial meltdown that brings back bartering for real. fuck, what should i stock up on?


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RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 4:25:25 PM   
Edwynn


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I see the point, but local and persnickety fiscal nit picking is no substitute for overall fiscal and regulatory probity, nor can the trees of various "austerity" ventures fix the dis-economic forest of the decades-long deregulation cocaine binge we have been on.




< Message edited by Edwynn -- 6/20/2012 4:38:52 PM >

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RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 4:30:43 PM   
Karmastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


I see the point, but local and persnickety fiscal nit picking is no substitute for overall fiscal and regulatory probity, nor can the trees fix the dis-economic forest of decades-long cocaine binge we have been on.




yes, agree. so more taxes will just feed that beast even more. my main point was, yep, yet another tax for something that used to be part of the general fund, or the rare bond measure. more and more bond measures, fees, and in this case, a direct tax increase.

bah humbug i say. start fundraising, start shifting the budget and cut something else, start cutting waste, but i've had enough fucking taxes. and no, i'm not a tea party supporter.


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RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 4:56:51 PM   
Edwynn


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I'm not sure, but you might have missed it that those who have made off with a large portion of the US Treasury are not looking back. They don't give a whit what libraries or schools are closed by their actions. We are just left to clean up after the party.

You can fund raise and cut (or raise) taxes all you like, but the damage is already done. Bake sales aren't going to do it, which is all that state or municipal popular election tax atonement for corporate god actions ever could be considered.

I hear you, more taxes just "feed the beast". That "beast" of government that shut down eight schools in my county, you mean? Which beast are we talking about, here? One? Other? Both?

Let's ask the kids.


Everything in this discussion makes perfect sense to them, right?

As long as they know that they are "fighting the beast" as they see workers putting plyboard to school windows, I bet the kids feel like warriors, no?








< Message edited by Edwynn -- 6/20/2012 5:10:53 PM >

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RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 5:25:17 PM   
Karmastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


I'm not sure, but you might have missed it that those who have made off with a large portion of the US Treasury are not looking back. They don't give a whit what libraries or schools are closed by their actions. We are just left to clean up after the party.

You can fund raise and cut (or raise) taxes all you like, but the damage is already done. Bake sales aren't going to do it, which is all that state or municipal popular election tax atonement for corporate god actions ever could be considered.

I hear you, more taxes just "feed the beast". That "beast" of government that shut down eight schools in my county, you mean? Which beast are we talking about, here? One? Other? Both?

Let's ask the kids.


Everything in this discussion makes perfect sense to them, right?

As long as they know that they are "fighting the beast" as they see workers putting plyboard to school windows, I bet the kids feel like warriors, no?


well, until this point, i haven't really addressed where i think you're going. i think, what you argue is all based on the premise that my tax dollars should help pay for your rugrats education (because not everyone has kids). i see the huge social benefit in that, and agree, that education and schools should be one of the top priorities, after i think police and courts.

i don't need to be right or wrong, please check my signature. it's all in the discussion and journey, and i hope mopes like you teach me something along the way too :)


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RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 8:31:23 PM   
Edwynn


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I'm still learning myself, even am I going to the uni at a later age than most for the purpose.

What I knew before any of that is that the press is not our friend. But I had no idea how damaging the swindling of banks from municipal governments had taken place until a few after-class discussions with my excellent Money and Credit professor (essentially, the banking and finance system).

My experience in one forced political science class and the immediate and vociferous attacks I sustained (on this site, not much so on others) after explaining the plight of someone close to me in consequence of the destroyed equity begot by the financial melt down is what led me to utterly despise the 'standard liberal,' not to mention the 'pony play Libertarians.' Not that I and others hadn't already figured that out at least twenty years ago, but it seems that some goodly number of them make every effort to out-do the Republicans in the matter of both obstinate idiocy and plain mean-spiritedness.


I'm done with the bitches.









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RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 8:32:20 PM   
erieangel


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Status: offline 		Why is it that people who don't have kids have such a hard time with the idea of paying school taxes. When I was growing up, I did go public school but most of the kids on my block went to Catholic school. Their parents paid for their tuition and paid school taxes for my education, and thought nothing of it--it was their duty.

We have become such a selfish, uncaring society--it makes me sick.


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RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/20/2012 9:14:08 PM   
Edwynn


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(points to the above to point out how clueless political types are ... )

Germany does a much better job in education, not because they are so unselfish, but because they have at least half a clue as to how to maintain economic position in the world, which, if anything, could be argued that the Germans are more selfish.

But in any event, continental Euro countries have a long history of actually giving a crap about their own, such consideration for their own sort seeming to have never been in place in the UK or the US. The two 'orphan powers' of history.

But as pointed out earlier, The US is struggling to keep even elementary schools from being shuttered; but, a uni I am closely affiliated with recently decided that a football team would be a good thing. The non-student-aid funded 'activity fees' or whatever they call it went up by 300% in one year.

Priorities, folks, priorities ...

Higher education? Wanting to keep up with the world? Actually giving a crap about your own citizens?

It ain't happening here, folks.

Enjoy the slide.


PS

Some twit from the UK was arguing here ~ a year ago that the students were just being 'brats' for protesting against a sharp rise in tuition, he claiming that education was a "privilege">

Yeah, that's how you compete in the world, huh? Being a prissy-butt princess about it. There you go.

Of course, the US has the power to to impose more tariffs, in lieu of actually furthering ourselves economically or intellectually for sake of maintaining competitiveness, but why bother with support for the educational effort needed to maintain world position when that seems to be politically out of favor? Nothing left in the fiscal or spiritual tank after all the pay-outs to Exxon and Citigroup and Monsanto, et al. Quite a long line there.

Education; back of the line, please.

We have a third world lunch appointment, with a seminar about how to provide educational opportunities in the fast rising arena of frying potatoes.



< Message edited by Edwynn -- 6/20/2012 10:07:20 PM >

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RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/21/2012 2:24:04 AM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic
lol! i think plenty of people are that stupid :)


They tend to vote Republican; and then wonder why everything is going south from the economy to the facts. Its not stupidity by itself, its foolishness too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic
more than that, you're assuming people saw the later message. speaking simply from life experience, that's a big jump. it's kinda a small point anyway, and regardless, it's fine to disagree. peace.


If they didnt see the message, nor hear of it from other sources, why the large turn out for the vote? Who would, in America, vote 'yes' on burning books? The facts speak for themselves, the citizens had questions and got informed on the issue at hand. They switched the Tea Party message of "TAXES!" to "What is best for everyone at the end of the day?" Education won the day!

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RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/21/2012 4:47:23 AM   
JstAnotherSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

Why is it that people who don't have kids have such a hard time with the idea of paying school taxes. When I was growing up, I did go public school but most of the kids on my block went to Catholic school. Their parents paid for their tuition and paid school taxes for my education, and thought nothing of it--it was their duty.

We have become such a selfish, uncaring society--it makes me sick.



This.

I love the fact that the ones who were so up in arms about the original Facebook page came back and admitted it had gotten to them and they had spread the word about the vote-lol.

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RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/21/2012 4:55:18 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Incidentally, public libraries are not limited to school children...

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RE: Book Burning Party at Library - 6/21/2012 4:56:24 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

And now you're rehashing what happened on FB.


That's because it answers the question you're rehashing.

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