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Obamas Arab Winter - 6/24/2012 8:02:33 AM   
Sanity


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An update on Jimmuh Cottuh IIs progress toward handing the planet over to Islamic extremists, one country at a time:

Egypt's New President: Our Capital 'Shall Be Jerusalem, Allah Willing'

Questions over extent of his power...

Egyptian beats pregnant wife to death for not voting for Mursi...

Supporters chant 'Allahu Akbar!'






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RE: Obamas Arab Winter - 6/24/2012 8:05:11 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Wow. He did all that?

Amazing in itself.

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RE: Obamas Arab Winter - 6/24/2012 8:07:17 AM   
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RE: Obamas Arab Winter - 6/24/2012 8:08:23 AM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		I guess we don't have the resources necessary to invade new Arab countries until we extricate ourselves from the ones Bush invaded.

Seriously, after those debacles, I think that Obama's policies make sense in the Middle East. We are:
Killing AQ leaders with unmanned drones.
Hamstringing Iran's nuclear capabilities with Stuxnet.
Using airpower to neuter Libya's forces and allow the rebels to overcome them.
Using SEALs to get OBL.

Basically, Obama's doing almost everything except invasion. What tactics would be better?

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RE: Obamas Arab Winter - 6/24/2012 8:10:18 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Any tactics at all (regardless of whether they work or not) from a much paler and non Democrat President.
I'd thought that was obvious by now...

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RE: Obamas Arab Winter - 6/24/2012 8:45:22 AM   
Sanity


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Bush took the time and made the investments necessary to insure that the changes brought forth by American might were for the better

Obama on the other hand is recklessly fighting these wars by remote control and enabling Muslim fundamentalists to overthrow moderate governments with no sense of care about the outcome

We fought hard to give Afghanistan to the moderate people of Afghanistan but in one fell swoop Obama has helped to create another al-Qaeda training ground very similar to the Old Afghanistan

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/mali/9191760/Triumphant-Tuareg-rebels-fall-out-over-al-Qaedas-jihad-in-Mali.html

Helping the "rebels" in Libya caused this

In short, Obamas policy in regard to Arab Winter is one of insanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I guess we don't have the resources necessary to invade new Arab countries until we extricate ourselves from the ones Bush invaded.

Seriously, after those debacles, I think that Obama's policies make sense in the Middle East. We are:
Killing AQ leaders with unmanned drones.
Hamstringing Iran's nuclear capabilities with Stuxnet.
Using airpower to neuter Libya's forces and allow the rebels to overcome them.
Using SEALs to get OBL.

Basically, Obama's doing almost everything except invasion. What tactics would be better?



< Message edited by Sanity -- 6/24/2012 8:46:39 AM >

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RE: Obamas Arab Winter - 6/24/2012 9:11:19 AM   
Sanity


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Quite alright, I wouldn't expect you to have the first clue re current events that your comedian news sources don't cover

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Wow. He did all that?

Amazing in itself.



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RE: Obamas Arab Winter - 6/24/2012 9:26:33 AM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Bush took the time and made the investments necessary to insure that the changes brought forth by American might were for the better.
Did you actually type that with a straight face? Bush's plans were cocked up from the beginning.

quote:

Obama on the other hand is recklessly fighting these wars by remote control and enabling Muslim fundamentalists to overthrow moderate governments with no sense of care about the outcome
Right or wrong, Obama is trying to keep the troops on the ground safe... Hamstringing their fighting ability, sure, good tactics, not really, if he really wanted a push button war, he'd bring the troops home.

quote:

We fought hard to give Afghanistan to the moderate people of Afghanistan but in one fell swoop Obama has helped to create another al-Qaeda training ground very similar to the Old Afghanistan
Can't argue with this.

quote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/mali/9191760/Triumphant-Tuareg-rebels-fall-out-over-al-Qaedas-jihad-in-Mali.html

Helping the "rebels" in Libya caused this

In short, Obamas policy in regard to Arab Winter is one of insanity


We had no business in Libya, none in Syria, and none in Yemen. Everyone cried to the heavens when Bush invaded Iraq. They cried that Iraq had no involvement in the Sept 11 attack.

But now the song is different, Syria is a genocide, and we need to save those poor people. Libyan Rebels cried out for our help, we couldn't ignore them, and nobody knows why the fuck we're in Yemen, except that the Al Qaeda fighters who fled Iraq, and are fleeing Afghanistan are retreating there. The hypocrisy of the war doves is sickening.

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RE: Obamas Arab Winter - 6/24/2012 9:37:52 AM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Bush took the time and made the investments necessary to insure that the changes brought forth by American might were for the better


I get the impression that you are actually commending Bush for the invasions. That would make you a rare bird indeed. Not only were the invasions complete disasters, he was such a weenie that he didn't even want anyone to know they cost money, and he kept them off the books.
quote:



Obama on the other hand is recklessly fighting these wars by remote control and enabling Muslim fundamentalists to overthrow moderate governments with no sense of care about the outcome


You're anticipating. There's no clear sense of which governments will end up in place. However, one of the "moderate" governments that got overthrown was responsible for downing the Lockerbie plane.

Obama's policy seems to be to let the people have a stronger voice in who governs them. It's a tricky dance, although from other examples of his tactics, I suspect he will be maneuvering behind the scenes to try to win the new governments over once things settle. Note that we earned Iran's enmity by doing exactly what you seem to be suggesting, planting a puppet (Reza Pahlavi) over the will of the people.
quote:



We fought hard to give Afghanistan to the moderate people of Afghanistan but in one fell swoop Obama has helped to create another al-Qaeda training ground very similar to the Old Afghanistan


We did indeed fight hard. However, there's some question regarding whether the was itself was winnable (Bush ignored the Soviet episode altogether). There is NO question that it was not winnable in the way that Bush fought it. Afghanistan actually was where Obama made a surge offensive which I opposed at the time because basically the war in unwinnable anyway. I'm not certain how Obama made a single move that affected things there - it was lost when he entered office, and it will be lost when he leaves. I read that outside Kabul, Afghanistan was run by local warlords and chiefs anyway.

Perhaps one reason that AQ is using Afghanistan is that Obama's smoked them out of Pakistan.
quote:



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/mali/9191760/Triumphant-Tuareg-rebels-fall-out-over-al-Qaedas-jihad-in-Mali.html

Helping the "rebels" in Libya caused this

In short, Obamas policy in regard to Arab Winter is one of insanity



Nope. Propping up the shah was insanity. Overlooking Qaddafi's attach on the Pan Am flight was insanity. Arming the Afghan mujadeen when they fought the Soviets was insanity. Obama's foreign policy has so far been muted but quietly effective, and mostly consists of not screwing up. IMO, his foreign policy is vastly better than his domestic policy. Unfortunately for him, domestic policy is what wins elections.


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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Obamas Arab Winter - 6/24/2012 9:50:40 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
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Status: offline 		I would say there is plenty of blame to go around when it comes to the rise of radical Islam around the world. Years of western civilization’s support of oppressive regimes and raping of resources have left a resentful and distrusting people.

In the US it is just not Republicans or Democrats it is our whole political system and the appeasing of our lust for energy and power that has led us down this road. And it is not just the US… get off that high horse Western Europe… you deserve just as much blame as we do.

It serves no useful purpose to point fingers…what is is.

I think it is not too late to change our course…in time we can build the trust necessary to be a influential power in the Middle East again. We don’t even need to change our basic disagreements over human rights and Islam’s treatment of other religions and women. We just need to be truthful and fair in our dealings and try to guide the blossoming new order of nations into the world of democracy and basic human rights.

Butch

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RE: Obamas Arab Winter - 6/24/2012 10:19:12 AM   
Owner59


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You cons want to do something about it......go there and let us know how it went......

So other than bombing "them" into the stone-age....how do the cons propose we intervene?

Cowardly Mitt doesn`t even have a policy position let alone a solution......

List the solutions in order of what you`d do 1st.

Note to board: the OP is very frightened of Arab men(and other brown people) and photos of them, are especially scary.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 6/24/2012 10:22:29 AM >

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RE: Obamas Arab Winter - 6/24/2012 10:23:50 AM   
kdsub


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Butch

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RE: Obamas Arab Winter - 6/24/2012 10:38:22 AM   
Anaxagoras


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
You're anticipating. There's no clear sense of which governments will end up in place. However, one of the "moderate" governments that got overthrown was responsible for downing the Lockerbie plane.

I don't think anyone would call Gaddafi "moderate" - I suspect it was just the lumping in together the overturned governments of the Arab Spring. It seems the government will be extreme as Morsy only toned down his message after Shafik's growing popularity. Besides that the Parliament declared a similar-ish policy to Iran against you-know-who in March.

quote:


Obama's policy seems to be to let the people have a stronger voice in who governs them. It's a tricky dance, although from other examples of his tactics, I suspect he will be maneuvering behind the scenes to try to win the new governments over once things settle. Note that we earned Iran's enmity by doing exactly what you seem to be suggesting, planting a puppet (Reza Pahlavi) over the will of the people.

Few traditional Muslim leaders appear to have been fond of socialism when the Shah took power, and the oppressiveness of the post-Shah regime has been a lot worse. It seems the anger of Iranian Islamists toward the US and the West generally is as much to do with the Shah's very strong policy against traditional Muslim values.

quote:


Arming the Afghan mujadeen when they fought the Soviets was insanity.

There were a few lengthy threads about how the Soviets treated Afghani's some months ago. I won't revisit that issue but its pretty clear the Soviets were particularly appalling - probably exceeding the worst excesses of the Arab Spring. Also it would have been difficult to predict back in the early 80's that this extremism would rise to the extent that it has.

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RE: Obamas Arab Winter - 6/24/2012 10:43:23 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Bush took the time and made the investments necessary to insure that the changes brought forth by American might were for the better

Liar. Bush guaranteed an islamic state in Iraq that will always be hostile to us and friendly to the Shi'a extremists in Iran. Even his piss poor investment in Iraqi oil infrastructure will do us more harm as the oil industry in Iraq is sure to be nationalized to take it away from Haliburton.

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RE: Obamas Arab Winter - 6/24/2012 1:13:42 PM   
Sanity


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quote:

I don't think anyone would call Gaddafi "moderate"


Its all relative, isnt it

He had moderated since personally having his little world rocked by some serious American munitions

Compared to many governments in that region and to who is potentially replacing him yes, he was a moderate

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RE: Obamas Arab Winter - 6/24/2012 2:06:29 PM   
Sanity


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How nice of the White House...

quote:




The White House congratulated Egypt's president-elect Mohamed Morsi on his victory in that country's presidential election, calling it a "milestone" in the country's transition to democracy.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


An update on Jimmuh Cottuh IIs progress toward handing the planet over to Islamic extremists, one country at a time:

Egypt's New President: Our Capital 'Shall Be Jerusalem, Allah Willing'

Questions over extent of his power...

Egyptian beats pregnant wife to death for not voting for Mursi...

Supporters chant 'Allahu Akbar!'








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RE: Obamas Arab Winter - 6/24/2012 3:08:40 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


How nice of the White House...

quote:




The White House congratulated Egypt's president-elect Mohamed Morsi on his victory in that country's presidential election, calling it a "milestone" in the country's transition to democracy.





What course of action would you have taken instead?

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RE: Obamas Arab Winter - 6/24/2012 3:12:52 PM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


How nice of the White House...

quote:




The White House congratulated Egypt's president-elect Mohamed Morsi on his victory in that country's presidential election, calling it a "milestone" in the country's transition to democracy.







Here's some transition. Arab Spring style.

An Egyptian plumber in Alexandria beat his pregnant wife to death upon learning that she had not voted for Muslim Brotherhood presidential candidate Mohammed Mursi

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RE: Obamas Arab Winter - 6/24/2012 3:29:40 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		I am sure that Mursi had it done.  In this country, the hard right only has to felch rush on national tv.

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RE: Obamas Arab Winter - 6/24/2012 4:25:39 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Its all relative, isnt it

He had moderated since personally having his little world rocked by some serious American munitions

Compared to many governments in that region and to who is potentially replacing him yes, he was a moderate


I`m with you bro, fuck trusting them Arabs with democracy huh.......... Arsehole (FYI.....Not a donkey)


Did you not read the following from your own link........These guys were part of Gaddafis army. I well remember you pissing and moaning when the Lockerbie bomber was released (due to his cancer) back to Gaddafi, and now you are saying Gaddifi was a moderate. What planet are you on ?? Even your sock puppet isnt this dopey

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