quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Nope.. I find them funny, actually. Here I have someone who says he is a physical therapists (or, I think that is what he said he was) telling me what causes and doesnt cause high bp and that it can all be changed by our habits.. and only our habits.

Wow, amazing. You have no idea about me, yet you make all sorts of claims and even lie.

Physicians recommend dietary changes and lifestyle changes when someone starts to see a rise in blood pressure. If those don't work, and the blood pressure keeps rising, then medications may be the next attempt at resolution.

I stand by my assertion that the majority of people will be a lower burden on a care system if they take care of themselves instead of abusing their bodies and leaving it to medicine to take care of them.

That was my point. If people took care of their bodies, less medical care will be needed. That doesn't mean that no medical care will be needed, just less. And, you know what happens when someone requires less medical care?

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That was my point. If people took care of their bodies, less medical care will be needed. That doesn't mean that no medical care will be needed, just less. And, you know what happens when someone requires less medical care?

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
And, you know what happens when someone requires less medical care?

Their Doctors and the big pharma sponsors of their Doctors make less money. That's why you have a system that writes scrips at the drop of a hat, rather than trying to address problems through lifestyle issues.

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
FR.
Its alll pointless if one cannot pay to see a doctor until you find yourself in emergency, OR pay for prescriptions to help change the progression of an issue.
To ignore that (no matter how you use pretty words and flowery argumentative nothingness) is to remain ignorant of what reality IS.
TO only be able to stay healthy if you can afford it, is simply bullshit and arrogance against humanity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
And, you know what happens when someone requires less medical care?

Their Doctors and the big pharma sponsors of their Doctors make less money. That's why you have a system that writes scrips at the drop of a hat, rather than trying to address problems through lifestyle issues.

Apparently you're as stupid as I am to think that lifestyle issues will solve the problems. That's what tazzy has been drilling me about in this thread. But, you had seriously watch yourself here. When you start agreeing with me, you might see the men in white coming to visit. [8D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
FR.
Its alll pointless if one cannot pay to see a doctor until you find yourself in emergency, OR pay for prescriptions to help change the progression of an issue.
To ignore that (no matter how you use pretty words and flowery argumentative nothingness) is to remain ignorant of what reality IS.
TO only be able to stay healthy if you can afford it, is simply bullshit and arrogance against humanity.

Wouldn't the point be to lower the cost of care, instead of subsidizing the purchase of something that helps pay for a ridiculously high cost of care?

If you aren't actually lowering the cost of care, all you are doing is shifting the cost of care to someone else. Insurance companies aren't going to take the hit. They'll just raise premiums, and since they won't be allowed to charge more for those who have a pre-existing condition (100% risk of having to pay out), everyone will pay more. Well, everyone that pays, will pay more. If you were to lower the cost of care for everyone, not the cost of insurance, but the cost of the actual care, insurance will cost less and more people would be able to pay for their care, preventive or otherwise.

And, since the Gub'mint is going to have a say in the insurance rate increases, who doesn't think politicians will continue to get paid by the insurance company? How many think the insurance companies won't come in with an inflated rate increase request, knowing that Big Gov is likely to lower it simply for political points with voters?

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Lucylastic
Try reading what I wrote and not what you are wanting me to write...comprehension is your friend. Im discussing people not the costs cutting. The fact is that when you are without ability to pay, lowering costs to the level that the poorest can afford it, are about as likely as me growing testicles and a penis. For anyone who makes too much to be on medcare /medicaid, earning minimum wage, part timers, unemployed, the costs will never go low enough, otherwise it would/should have happened years ago...Profit is the name of the game and the industry wont give a damn about the poorer and sick, unless they can pay their prices, and THAT is the point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Wouldn't the point be to lower the cost of care, instead of subsidizing the purchase of something that helps pay for a ridiculously high cost of care?

Try reading what I wrote and not what you are wanting me to write...comprehension is your friend. Im discussing people not the costs cutting. The fact is that when you are without ability to pay, lowering costs to the level that the poorest can afford it, are about as likely as me growing testicles and a penis. For anyone who makes too much to be on medcare /medicaid, earning minimum wage, part timers, unemployed, the costs will never go low enough, otherwise it would/should have happened years ago...Profit is the name of the game and the industry wont give a damn about the poorer and sick, unless they can pay their prices, and THAT is the point.

quote:

Got it. So, no, it's not about lowering the cost of care, just subsidizing the cost of insurance to pay the exorbitant prices

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
It is most definitely not about putting ideology before peoples' lives, as your position does. We all know where we end up once we start down the slippery slope of ideology trumping human life.

quote:

BTW aren't the healthcare corporations currently charging the "exorbitant rates" you complain about the very same corporations who will dominate the market place even more in an exclusively private healthcare system? As tazzygirl has explained, the very same people who are responsible for the expensive inefficient inadequate system the US currently enjoys? The very same corporations whose track record demonstrates repeated price gouging, of charging as much as they can get away with? Your approach advocates giving these parasites even more power over US health care consumers.

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In a largely overlooked segment of the CBO's update to the budget outlook released Tuesday, the independent arm of Congress found that the bill will cost $1.76 trillion between now and 2022.
That only counts the cost of coverage, not implementation costs and other changes.

quote:


The cost increases, according to Mercer, are also driven by advances in medical research and technology, which result in more effective -- and more expensive -- diagnostic tools and medical procedures.
Another factor is the growth of a global middle class -- leading to the spread of Westernized lifestyles, where people have the luxury to eat fatty, processed foods and live sedentary lives.
"People are doing less physical activity and eating higher caloric content," says Dr. Lorna Friedman, a partner in Mercer's global health-management consulting business.
That's led to diabetes-prevalence rates higher than 10 percent in Western Europe, she says. Even more staggering, China has 90 million people with diabetes and India has 55 million.

quote:


Obesity is a major cause of morbidity and mortality and is associated with high medical expenditures. It has been suggested that obesity prevention could result in cost savings. The objective of this study was to estimate the annual and lifetime medical costs attributable to obesity, to compare those to similar costs attributable to smoking, and to discuss the implications for prevention.
Although effective obesity prevention leads to a decrease in costs of obesity-related diseases, this decrease is offset by cost increases due to diseases unrelated to obesity in life-years gained. Obesity prevention may be an important and cost-effective way of improving public health, but it is not a cure for increasing health expenditures.
The actual numbers for lifetime from 20 years old medical costs were:
The lifetime costs were in Euros:
Healthy: 281,000
Obese: 250,000
Smokers: 220,000

quote:


“‘If you want to keep costs under control, it’s not about managing health care premiums…it’s
about managing the underlying health care costs.’”
- Sandy Praeger, Kansas Insurance Commissioner

"Health insurers have been squarely in the crosshairs and blamed for the high cost of private
insurance, while the role of growing hospital and physician market power has escaped
scrutiny." - Robert Berenson, M.D., Senior Researcher, Urban Institute

Researchers from The Center for Studying Health System
Change cite “a definite shift in negotiating strength
toward providers, resulting in higher payment rates and
premiums.”


“Evidence from two decades of hospital mergers and acquisitions nationally demonstrates that
consolidating hospital markets drives up prices, with disagreement only over the magnitude of the
increases.”




“Hospital and physician payment rates are nearly 30 percent and 20 percent higher, respectively,
than Medicare rates…In some cases, payment rates to hospitals and powerful physicians groups
approach and exceed 200 percent of what Medicare pays.”




“As one medical group executive said, ‘We are making out hand over fist.’”

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ORIGINAL: SilverMark
The AMA supports the PPACA
Pretty strong endorsement

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ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark
The AMA supports the PPACA
Pretty strong endorsement

I have questions concerning the AMA. It reminds me a lot of DuPont's war on hemp in favor of its invention of nylon.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark
The AMA supports the PPACA
Pretty strong endorsement

I have questions concerning the AMA. It reminds me a lot of DuPont's war on hemp in favor of its invention of nylon.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
It is nothing short of a tragedy that tens of thousands of Americans have died prematurely and unnecessarily, those deaths being due in no small measure to an ideological obsession of the Right, the driver of its opposition to affordable universal health care.