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Advocacy group: 26,000 die prematurely without health i... - 6/25/2012 3:50:51 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		Advocacy group: 26,000 die prematurely without health insurance
A national health care consumer advocacy group estimates that three Americans die every hour as a result of not having health insurance.

According to "Dying for Coverage," the latest report by Families USA, 72 Americans die each day, 500 Americans die every week and approximately Americans 2,175 die each month, due to lack of health insurance.

"The Affordable Care Act was passed by Congress to address an American tragedy and an American shame," said Ron Pollack, Executive Director Families USA. "The fact remains that for the millions of Americans without health coverage, only the Affordable Care offers the promise of access to affordable coverage and to a longer and healthier life."

Families USA has been a staunch supporter of President Obama's health care reform law.

The report found that the reasons for being uninsured varied, but many of those without health insurance had coverage denied because of pre-existing conditions. Others have been priced out of the market on the heels of a failing economy - a time when keeping their homes and feeding their families took precedence over holding on to insurance in the face of rising premiums. And some lost their benefits when employers stopped providing coverage.

According to Families USA between 2005 and 2010, premature deaths rose from 20,350 to 26,100. The total number during that time was 134,120. Each state is affected, the organization said. Vermont had the fewest deaths with 28 while California had the most – 3,164, according to this report.

The method used to determine how many lives were lost was based on a model developed by the Institute of Medicine in 2002 for their report "Care without Coverage: Too Little, Too Late." In that report, the IOM found 18,000 adults between 25 and 64 died in 2000 because they didn't have health insurance.
More here
http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/20/families-usa-says-26000-die-prematurely-without-health-insurance/?hpt=hp_bn12


apropos for the expected HC decision coming today. Or maybe just to damn late for too many people

http://www.familiesusa.org/issues/uninsured/publications/dying-for-coverage.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Medicine
links to the "original" groups mentioned

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RE: Advocacy group: 26,000 die prematurely without heal... - 6/25/2012 7:17:18 AM   
kalikshama


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RE: Advocacy group: 26,000 die prematurely without heal... - 6/25/2012 7:26:12 AM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		I'm sure that these numbers come from completely unbiased sources.

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RE: Advocacy group: 26,000 die prematurely without heal... - 6/25/2012 7:42:14 AM   
mnottertail


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RE: Advocacy group: 26,000 die prematurely without heal... - 6/25/2012 8:40:27 AM   
Hillwilliam


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RE: Advocacy group: 26,000 die prematurely without heal... - 6/25/2012 8:44:13 AM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
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Status: offline 		I don't mean to rain on your parade here... (well, yeah I do) But your source claims that in the state of Indiana

quote:

Working-Age People without Health Insurance Die Sooner
Families USA estimates that nearly nine working-age Hoosiers die each week due
to lack of health insurance (approximately 460 people in 2006).
Between 2000 and 2006, the estimated number of adults between the ages of 25
and 64 in Indiana who died because they did not have health insurance was nearly
3,100. Across the United States, in 2006, twice as many people died from lack of health
insurance as died from homicide.

And, The uninsured pay more for medical care.
Uninsured patients are unable to negotiate the discounts on hospital and doctor
charges that insurance companies do. As a result, uninsured patients are often
charged more than 2.5 times what insured patients are charged for hospital
services.


So that was six years ago... OK I can accept that, but when your source omits this...
quote:

The Healthy Indiana Plan (HIP) is an affordable health insurance program for uninsured adult Hoosiers, created by Governor Daniels and the Indiana General Assembly in 2007. The program is sponsored by the State and only requires minimal monthly contributions from the participant. HIP is for uninsured Hoosiers between the ages of 19-64. It offers full health benefits including hospital services, mental health care, physician services, prescriptions and diagnostic exams.
http://www.in.gov/fssa/hip/index.htm

OMG, is that Mitch Daniels listed as the governor who started this program?

And they most certainly did not contact the St Vincent Medical Group, because I happen to know that ST Vincent offers up to 100% discount on medical bills for the poor and uninsured. https://www.stvincent.org/St-Vincent-Indianapolis/Medical-Services/Cancer-Care/You-Are-Not-Alone/Financial-Assistance.aspx

So I guess what I'm saying is, your source information is shit Lucy, at least as far as Indiana goes, I wonder what other states have programs like the Healthy Indiana Plan, hmm?

Well, it appears that Ohio also has a program for poverty stricken families, so does Kentucky, as does Michigan... But alas, Illinois doesn't that I can find.

One question, which holder of public office comes from Illinois? And which party has the majority in Illinois?
Oh one more question if I may, which state had it's last two governors end up in the federal penitentiary?





< Message edited by subrob1967 -- 6/25/2012 8:45:55 AM >

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RE: Advocacy group: 26,000 die prematurely without heal... - 6/25/2012 11:59:44 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Advocacy group: 26,000 die prematurely without health insurance
A national health care consumer advocacy group estimates that three Americans die every hour as a result of not having health insurance.


What is the definition of "prematurely?"

And, who says it wasn't "their time" to die anyway? Is there some age that we are supposed to get to and if we don't, we die prematurely?

You can cite as many groups, writings, etc. you want. At no point in time is the cause of death lack of insurance. It is not possible for someone to die because they lacked insurance.

This is just another piece of rhetoric used to mobilize without actually stating the facts clearly. Period.



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RE: Advocacy group: 26,000 die prematurely without heal... - 6/25/2012 12:10:55 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Servant, OF course they wouldnt ask the NRA or opponents of the HC plan for numbers, but I gave links for you to be able to check out the people involved and the history of the Institute and the site for Family USA..If you are too lazy to search for your self, then you cant be taken seriously, but that is your prerogative.
And for Rob,

You certainly didnt rain on my parade, I am not your researcher, nor am I responsible for the information omitted, after a plan was put in place AFTER the time frame given. The fact is that it states between 2000 and 2006, 3,100 people died, its a good thing that it was put in place isnt it???? and maybe WHY it was put in place?? they arent claiming the number of deaths beyond that, maybe for THAT VERY reason.
I was NOT making it political, at all, Im well aware that both parties put plans in action to save american lives, GASP, because they HAD to do something to appear to care about people without insurance dying, it kinda looks bad.

BY the way, St Vincents does an awful lot of good, but not everyone who dies because of lack of insurance dies from cancer, or has the information to be able to access their care.

If you have problems with the information, go suck an egg, if you are denying the figures and facts, then you are just as useless as Servant, denying the issue by playing politics and saying there are a few charities for a whole state, then there is nothing I wish to discuss. with you.
The IOM has more credibility than you will ever have, to deny the issue by making it seem that people are NOT dying because "some" people are being helped is truly specious.
And DS you keep saying it, but it doesnt make it true, please show facts to say otherwise, or its just YOUR uninformed opinion

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RE: Advocacy group: 26,000 die prematurely without heal... - 6/25/2012 12:30:52 PM   
jlf1961


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Status: offline 		The Conservatives want people to die so there is more room for the wealthy.

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RE: Advocacy group: 26,000 die prematurely without heal... - 6/25/2012 12:37:55 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

It is not possible for someone to die because they lacked insurance.

You don't think people put off going to the doctor because they can't afford it and when they finally do it's too late for treatment?

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/20/families-usa-says-26000-die-prematurely-without-health-insurance/?hpt=hp_bn12

...they often don't get preventative care and forgo or delay screenings and necessary medical care.

The report further states that in the past 2 years, uninsured women older than 50 were half as likely as insured women to get mammograms. Low-income uninsured adults were 5 times less likely to get screened for colon cancer in the past 5 years compared to insured adults. Cancer patients without insurance are five times more likely to delay or even skip treatment because of the cost.

In addition, uninsured adults are more often diagnosed with advanced stage disease and they are 25% more likely to die prematurely than those with private insurance....

< Message edited by kalikshama -- 6/25/2012 12:40:37 PM >

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RE: Advocacy group: 26,000 die prematurely without heal... - 6/25/2012 12:41:13 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
BY the way, St Vincents does an awful lot of good, but not everyone who dies because of lack of insurance dies from cancer, or has the information to be able to access their care.


St Vincents has more than a cancer center, they have three major hospitals in Indianapolis, and are affiliated with St John's in Anderson In. They are full service medical facilities. and I personally know a person who went to St Vincent and had over $100.000K in medical bills covering a pace maker and heart care written off by St Vincent's, and the Care Group of Indiana. (Heart Specialists) Oh yeah, he applied for SSDI and Medicaid in January.

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RE: Advocacy group: 26,000 die prematurely without heal... - 6/25/2012 12:42:23 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

The Conservatives want people to die so there is more room for the wealthy.


Isn't Mitch Daniels considered a conservative Jif?

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RE: Advocacy group: 26,000 die prematurely without heal... - 6/25/2012 12:45:52 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

It is not possible for someone to die because they lacked insurance.

You don't think people put off going to the doctor because they can't afford it and when they finally do it's too late for treatment?

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/20/families-usa-says-26000-die-prematurely-without-health-insurance/?hpt=hp_bn12

...they often don't get preventative care and forgo or delay screenings and necessary medical care.

The report further states that in the past 2 years, uninsured women older than 50 were half as likely as insured women to get mammograms. Low-income uninsured adults were 5 times less likely to get screened for colon cancer in the past 5 years compared to insured adults. Cancer patients without insurance are five times more likely to delay or even skip treatment because of the cost.

In addition, uninsured adults are more often diagnosed with advanced stage disease and they are 25% more likely to die prematurely than those with private insurance....



Why is this the insurance companies fault? Isn't the person responsible for making their own decisions on whether to go to the Doctor or not? Are you saying that doctors visits should be mandatory for everyone? Some people are just cheap bastards that don't want to spend the money, and some fear the medical profession in general.

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RE: Advocacy group: 26,000 die prematurely without heal... - 6/25/2012 12:48:17 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
BY the way, St Vincents does an awful lot of good, but not everyone who dies because of lack of insurance dies from cancer, or has the information to be able to access their care.


St Vincents has more than a cancer center, they have three major hospitals in Indianapolis, and are affiliated with St John's in Anderson In. They are full service medical facilities. and I personally know a person who went to St Vincent and had over $100.000K in medical bills covering a pace maker and heart care written off by St Vincent's, and the Care Group of Indiana. (Heart Specialists) Oh yeah, he applied for SSDI and Medicaid in January.

well the link you gave me was to the cancer part, which doesnt give details on criteria or details on financing...
Im happy for your friend, but its obvious that one case doesnt prove a thing
Any charity will tell you need overwhelms the ability to help all.

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RE: Advocacy group: 26,000 die prematurely without heal... - 6/25/2012 1:02:12 PM   
Fellow


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Status: offline 		I guess the numbers (26,000) are reliable. For example early discovery and cure of cancer depends heavily on insurance coverage. Not nice to say, but the numbers are not so horrible out of the US population size. About 200,000 die annually because of medical errors.


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RE: Advocacy group: 26,000 die prematurely without heal... - 6/25/2012 1:12:15 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

Isn't the person responsible for making their own decisions on whether to go to the Doctor or not?


When you are living paycheck to paycheck and the choice is between paying rent and putting food on the table vs preventative care, there's really no choice at all:

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/20/families-usa-says-26000-die-prematurely-without-health-insurance/?hpt=hp_bn12

Forty year old Regina Holliday says having care is a game changer. She and her husband Frederick were married for almost 16 years. During most of that time they had no health insurance even though both worked multiple jobs-most of them part time. They had two small children and paid all their medical bills out of pocket.

“Two adults with 2 children and 6 jobs and we couldn’t afford health insurance between the two of us living in D.C.” Regina said. “We didn’t go to the doctor until we were really, really, really sick-couldn’t get out of bed sick.”

Frederick, a college professor, had a urinary tract stricture – a pre-existing condition and yet another barrier to finding affordable coverage. “Rent and food was just pretty much all of our money every month so when we looked at policies with pre-existing conditions we couldn’t afford that,” said Regina.

In 2008 she got a fulltime job that paid for health insurance but they could not afford the family coverage so only Regina had health care. Soon thereafter Fred found a full time job teaching. For the first time in years the entire family had coverage. It was around that time that Frederick began to get sick.

He was always tired, lost weight, was in pain. After numerous tests and scans Frederick was diagnosed with stage 4 kidney cancer. It had metastasized to his stomach, bones, and lungs. He died several months later at the age of 39.

“I believe that if my husband had consistent health care during his adult life he would still be alive today,” Regina told CNN. “Today, I’m a member of Kaiser Permanente and I see how true preventative care works-annual physicals, paying attention to medical records, charting how you’re doing year to year. If anyone had ever done that for my husband there’s a very good chance he’d be alive today.”

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RE: Advocacy group: 26,000 die prematurely without heal... - 6/25/2012 2:12:21 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

Isn't the person responsible for making their own decisions on whether to go to the Doctor or not?


When you are living paycheck to paycheck and the choice is between paying rent and putting food on the table vs preventative care, there's really no choice at all:

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/20/families-usa-says-26000-die-prematurely-without-health-insurance/?hpt=hp_bn12

Forty year old Regina Holliday says having care is a game changer. She and her husband Frederick were married for almost 16 years. During most of that time they had no health insurance even though both worked multiple jobs-most of them part time. They had two small children and paid all their medical bills out of pocket.

“Two adults with 2 children and 6 jobs and we couldn’t afford health insurance between the two of us living in D.C.” Regina said. “We didn’t go to the doctor until we were really, really, really sick-couldn’t get out of bed sick.”

Frederick, a college professor, had a urinary tract stricture – a pre-existing condition and yet another barrier to finding affordable coverage. “Rent and food was just pretty much all of our money every month so when we looked at policies with pre-existing conditions we couldn’t afford that,” said Regina.

In 2008 she got a fulltime job that paid for health insurance but they could not afford the family coverage so only Regina had health care. Soon thereafter Fred found a full time job teaching. For the first time in years the entire family had coverage. It was around that time that Frederick began to get sick.

He was always tired, lost weight, was in pain. After numerous tests and scans Frederick was diagnosed with stage 4 kidney cancer. It had metastasized to his stomach, bones, and lungs. He died several months later at the age of 39.

“I believe that if my husband had consistent health care during his adult life he would still be alive today,” Regina told CNN. “Today, I’m a member of Kaiser Permanente and I see how true preventative care works-annual physicals, paying attention to medical records, charting how you’re doing year to year. If anyone had ever done that for my husband there’s a very good chance he’d be alive today.”



Let me see if I have this right... If a person has to decide between going to the doctor, or paying the rent, do you really expect them to spend money on an insurance policy? Even if they could find a policy that cost them $100 a month?

And anecdotal blogs about two people who chose to work part time jobs with no benefits might tug at your heart strings, but people die every day. Including those healthy ones I have to scrape up off the roads, so your argument is contradicting itself. Either people are too poor to be able to afford health insurance, or they choose their satellite bill, and that night at the bar over paying the monthly insurance premium.

One last thing, insurance doesn't guarantee medical care, just because someone has insurance, doesn't mean they have the cost of a deductible... Living paycheck to paycheck and all.

Bottom line, is free health CARE your real goal here, or would you be happy if people paid say, 10% of their gross earnings to cover the cost of their health care? Boom, every April everyone writes a check to the Fed to cover that year's medical care... Would that work for you?

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RE: Advocacy group: 26,000 die prematurely without heal... - 6/25/2012 2:16:21 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Why not take it out of taxes as you go?

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RE: Advocacy group: 26,000 die prematurely without heal... - 6/25/2012 2:27:54 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Why not take it out of taxes as you go?


What are you going to take it out of? How would you know how much to tax? And how would people with no money pay the tax, if they have no money?

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RE: Advocacy group: 26,000 die prematurely without heal... - 6/25/2012 2:32:58 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		How do you guys know that taxes are too high and we can run this country on no taxes and borrowing?  How do you do that?

It ain't brain surgery doughnut hole, them that dont pay taxes because they work for american corporations, would be in exactly the same place as they are now.

I guess we have all of scandinavia, england, canada........hell, lets just say ever country in the world to look at for a model, How can we say healthcare is a multibillion dollar industry (the number usually preceeding it) dont we have fucking drones that watch that shit and count it? 

Illegitimate appeal to ignorance and spurious roadblocking wont quite do what you want done.  Gotta have more sack than that.  

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