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RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/7/2012 5:34:18 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

Suppose you were to send a probe from Earth to Mars. The trajectory of the probe is an extrapolation. The probe can miss the target, however. Why is that? Why are course corrections needed? Because the situation exists in tension between or among conflicting values. The probe wants to plunge into the Sun. The probe also wants to travel in a straight line.

Competing (rather than conflicting) forces are present the extrapolation found in the math required for solution. Math is life's constant means of most extrapolation...is it not ?

(in reply to BenevolentM)
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RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/7/2012 5:41:12 AM   
mnottertail


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Suppose you were to send a probe from Earth to Mars.




Earth to Mars, does not solve any healthcare issue.







The probe also wants to travel in a straight line. 



Not for any reason I can think of, since great efforts are expended to see it does not. 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/7/2012 5:48:25 AM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

What I am claiming is that the Supreme Court has reinvented the constitution

Ludicrous unsupportable asswipe.  Nipple.


My colleague mnottertail obviously feels that what I've written offensive and that it is wrong a priori. I would like to point out that a woman has two nipples and BOTH NIPPLES ARE VALID. If you are going to suck titty, there is both a left tit and a right tit. In either case, it is the same woman, the US of A!

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RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/7/2012 5:48:29 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
Unfortunately, proof of income is usually required to receive most government help. Anything less than that makes it too easy for people to lie. IMO having Medicaid or other subsidized health insurance is worth giving out the info if it keeps people from losing their homes and having their wages garnished over medical bills.

My intention would be to comply with the law. I would not be asking for help. Such a demand would violate my privacy. Pre-mandate it was voluntary. Post-mandate it won't be. That changes things. Pre-mandate it was a negotiation, a contract. You contract with the government for assistance and the government says that if you want to contract with us for help you have to divulge certain information. Post-mandate it is no longer a negotiation. It is pure naked force, not a negotiation, and like I said there is something called right to privacy. It seems to me that they might try to violate my right to privacy.

Incidentally, right to privacy is the legal justification for abortion. I suppose it is possible they could magically proclaim that forcing information out of you is not a form of forced intercourse.


If you go back into the history books (and news clippings) for 1913 and just after that, there were a group of US Citizens that didnt like the passage of the 16th Amendment to the US Consitution. As it turns out, that little bit of taxation with representation helped this nation through the worst economic downturns, fight a bunch of imperialists and facists, paved highways, created one Kick-Ass military, sent space shuttles into outer space, and a whirlwind of other modern day marvels, over come the obsticles of the day. It makes one wonder, if it didnt pass, how different would America be today?

Its just a silly idea that our nation, for all its advancements in a wide range of fields, is still backwards when it comes to something that affects every one of us sooner or later, in small terms or big issues. And there are people, just like in 1913 whom didnt have any facts or evidence, but shouted from the highest building and banged fists on the longest tables in an effort to silence said facts and evidence from being heard. But, just like today, the facts and evidence is heard, and the US Citizens will grow to like the benefits of the bill.


...and yet this country did just fine for 150 years without an income tax. There were many more then and still many now who will tell you that there is no proof that the 16th amend. was ever legally passed.

There was almost none in 1913 (1% of the people paid only 1% of income) yet we raised other taxes (sold 'war' bonds, some purchase that was compelled [mandated] upon the military) to pay for WWI.





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RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/7/2012 5:54:07 AM   
mnottertail


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http://healthreform.kff.org/the-animation.aspx

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 165
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/7/2012 5:56:48 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

What I am claiming is that the Supreme Court has reinvented the constitution

Ludicrous unsupportable asswipe.  Nipple.


My colleague mnottertail obviously feels that what I've written offensive and that it is wrong a priori. I would like to point out that a woman has two nipples and BOTH NIPPLES ARE VALID. If you are going to suck titty, there is both a left tit and a right tit. In either case, it is the same woman, the US of A!


Not offensive, just moronic.  Two nipples does not make a country, and nipples are not 'valid' or 'invalid'.  Not every woman has two nipples, and some have none, so breastcancer is the only thing regarding health case and implementation, that you have mentioned by accident. 

Jingos are not valid.  

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 166
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/7/2012 5:58:44 AM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Earth to Mars, does not solve any healthcare issue.


NASA might disagree. If you really want to solve a problem, do the difficult. Problems are not solved through a lack of ambition.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

The probe also wants to travel in a straight line.



Not for any reason I can think of, since great efforts are expended to see it does not.


What it wants and what it gets can be two different things. It doesn't really want one or the other, however. The probe is not there to serve its desires, but those of us Earthlings.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 167
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/7/2012 5:59:09 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

What I am claiming is that the Supreme Court has reinvented the constitution

Ludicrous unsupportable asswipe.  Nipple.

How ? I want specifics, something rare in these parts. Reinventing is I think, quite misapplied here.

Adjusted maybe like in Citizens although that was egregious for its reach it being beyond the point and clearly a much greater and profound step away from stare decisis.

Scalia for example voted against this extreme use of federal power on Obamacare but voted to empower the federal govt. to come into your home and stop you from growing med. marij. even in accordance with state law. So all of you 'legal experts' will have to parse that out but all SCOTUS rulings can and are almost always political.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 168
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/7/2012 6:00:49 AM   
mnottertail


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They are nothing but political.  the misapplication is the bugaboo.  nothing is new under the sun here, it is stare decis

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 169
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/7/2012 6:02:11 AM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Not offensive, just moronic.


Moronic is offensive. The set of all things moronic is a subset of all things offensive. You are offended. So who is telling the truth?

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 170
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/7/2012 6:04:39 AM   
mnottertail


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why is moronic offensive, not a neccessary and sufficient condition to moronic.

Just saying it is so without foundation makes it as moronic as it is.

Pathetic would be a valid word to use, I think.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 171
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/7/2012 6:15:59 AM   
BenevolentM


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I recall watching a documentary that went into great detail concerning whether or not the IRS is constitutional. I concluded that the conspiracy theorists overlooked something. I suspect the constitution has a loop hole in it that I refer to as law by conspiracy. It is lawful according to the constitution so long as the three branches of government silently go along with it.

Consequently, I disagree with you. The IRS is constitutional since the three branches of government are in conspiracy or put in another way in silent agreement.

I suspect that according to the constitution what we think does not matter. It is what the three branches of government think. The constitution does not regulate agreement. It regulates disagreement.

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Profile   Post #: 172
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/7/2012 6:22:06 AM   
mnottertail


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I expect the 16th amendment made that view insufferably untutuored.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 173
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/7/2012 6:29:10 AM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

all SCOTUS rulings can and are almost always political.


In the absence of standards, how else does one arrive at a conclusion?

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Profile   Post #: 174
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/7/2012 6:50:17 AM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I expect the 16th amendment made that view insufferably untutuored.


That may be true, but my impression is the conspiracy theorists regard the 16th amendment as never having been passed. My impression is that technically speaking the conspiracy theorists may be right, but law by conspiracy fills in the gaps and I suspect that is what they are overlooking. In other words, since no one, as in no one of the three branches of government, raised an objection, it's law.

Law can be as sloppy as hell. They don't care.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 175
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/7/2012 7:06:10 AM   
BenevolentM


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If the Supreme Court objected and said due to irregularities concerning how the 16th amendment was past it is unconstitutional it would have been in its rights to do so, but they didn't. Why didn't they? It obviously has to do with priorities. That is political because it is politics that establishes what your priorities are.

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Profile   Post #: 176
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/7/2012 7:09:19 AM   
mnottertail


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So, in order for us to understand the implementation of PPACA, we have to buy into all the various and sundry conspiracy theories as the premises upon which we found this?

Most of us are gonna take a quick, and non-introspective pass on that shit. 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 177
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/7/2012 7:57:56 AM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

So, in order for us to understand the implementation of PPACA, we have to buy into all the various and sundry conspiracy theories as the premises upon which we found this?

Most of us are gonna take a quick, and non-introspective pass on that shit.


The opposite. You need to understand why at least some conspiracy theories do not have legs. No doubt some will take a non-introspective pass.

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Profile   Post #: 178
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/7/2012 9:42:03 AM   
BenevolentM


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Majority of docs support, public uniformed on reform ruling
http://www.collarchat.com/m_4162781/tm.htm

The original post by Musicmystery was worth reading. I could care less if insurance companies like it, but if the doctors like it, it may work.

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Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation - 7/7/2012 10:14:14 AM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

Suppose you were to send a probe from Earth to Mars. The trajectory of the probe is an extrapolation. The probe can miss the target, however. Why is that? Why are course corrections needed? Because the situation exists in tension between or among conflicting values. The probe wants to plunge into the Sun. The probe also wants to travel in a straight line.

Competing (rather than conflicting) forces are present the extrapolation found in the math required for solution. Math is life's constant means of most extrapolation...is it not ?


I do not understand what you are saying. How is this competition verses conflict distinction useful? From the point of view of denotation competition and conflict are the same. They only differ with respect to their connotations. One is good conflict and the other is bad conflict. Extrapolation is an out of the box projection, you project out and away. Such projections can often be described mathematically, but the means of extrapolation? That is a philosophical question.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 180
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