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RE: Why is it degrading/humiliating to feminize a man? - 7/12/2012 6:47:53 AM   
Chrisp7135


Posts: 23
Joined: 2/10/2012
Status: offline 		This is a great discussion, and poignant to me as a crossdresser.
I remember an article in “Ms.” magazine in the late '70's about this issue, and for some feminists at the time, femininity was perceived as “weakness”.
I have several (vanilla) women friends who would encourage their daughters to play soccer or lacrosse,
but balk at any signs of femininity in their sons (I remember sitting discussing this over a glass of wine while L. told me she was taking her son out of dance class as he was becoming too “flowery”).

Growing up, I can't even recount all the innumerable times I heard (directed at me or others) “don't be a girl”, “only girls cry”, etc....not for crossdressing, but while running wind-sprints on the field, swimming laps, push-ups, and sports in general.

Males who displayed feminine traits were preyed upon in childhood and adolescence, and visited with violence and scorn.
Some experts on gender development see the infant as “proto-feminine”, and that masculinity is “learned” as the child separates from the mother, and that separation of intimacy being critical to the sense of maleness (think Robert Stoller and his writings and research).

In my professional career I keep my crossdressing (and submissiveness) top secret, but I don't think I would be humiliated if found out, just mildly embarrassed.

But, it's all worth it for just one pair of Christian Louboutin heels.

chris

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Why is it degrading/humiliating to feminize a man? - 7/16/2012 9:10:07 PM   
PrincessLyr


Posts: 14
Joined: 2/22/2012
Status: offline 		Not all men feel it is humiliating. Most enjoy and want it. They secretly want to know and feel the sexiness a woman feels when wearing feminine clothes...which is why it wouldnt feel the same to dress one in womens jeans lol...usually lingerie and dresses heels etc. Those who ARE humiliated by it or less embarrassed of wearing the female clothes...and more focused on the feeling is conjured up through the idea that OTHERS might think its humiliating for him. Its taboo...and taboo equals turn on.

(in reply to marshalp)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Why is it degrading/humiliating to feminize a man? - 7/17/2012 9:13:30 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kratos230
So basically, about humiliation and feminization. I guess its way more "easy" to humiliate a man sexually, because the "sexual norm" for them is very specific and very rigid.

It is not simply the "sexual norm". At least in the US what happened was that we had women's lib and the role of women in our society was expanded greatly in a ton of different directions... clothing choices being simply one of them. Today I can go into an upscale women's boutique and find slacks... men's clothing. So my interpretation of all this is that women's lib worked... it liberated women (for the most part) from a terribly restrictive gender role. Sadly, there was never a men's lib so the male role remains the same... a brainless, soulless, emotionless fucking & killing machine that does NOT wear skirts.


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RE: Why is it degrading/humiliating to feminize a man? - 7/17/2012 2:29:58 PM   
experiment2


Posts: 208
Joined: 11/7/2007
Status: offline 		This covers a wide area and there are many answers. As a sub who finds himself in a dual lifestyle i find feminizing is not actually degrading, but changing ones role from male dominant to male submissive. i have only experienced some feminizing at the instructions of Dominant females. it has the effect of being somwhat embarrassing at first until you accept it. one does not feel too masculine in panties or a g string. being forced to purchase such items can really take down ones ego, all of this is what i presume the Domme intended to do and make me feel more submissive to her.

i'm sure others will have differing opinions.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Why is it degrading/humiliating to feminize a man? - 7/17/2012 3:27:21 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009
Excellent point! I've always wondered how women manage to walk around in heels all day.


Too right. But I understand that in America they even have competitions called 'Drag races'? How the hell can they run in that kind of clothing? You couldn't make it up.


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RE: Why is it degrading/humiliating to feminize a man? - 7/17/2012 3:33:07 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PrincessLyr

Not all men feel it is humiliating. Most enjoy and want it. They secretly want to know and feel the sexiness a woman feels when wearing feminine clothes



That's *sort of* right, for me. Or it has been, at times. The first time I went to a BDSM gig, I made a kind of 'toga' that was quite, but not completely, like a dress. It was split all the way up the side.

I wanted something that would make me feel exposed and vaguely vulnerable, but at the same time not 'feminine'. It took me ages to come up with the idea of that toga and I could find nothing that I thought would have the same effect on me in BDSM shop. I really did have to start right from scratch.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Why is it degrading/humiliating to feminize a man? - 7/17/2012 3:34:13 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Not terribly feminine, though, eh? Unless you used a lace sheet...

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Why is it degrading/humiliating to feminize a man? - 7/17/2012 3:48:27 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		See, that's the point: I wasn't aiming for feminine - I was aiming for what I'd seen feminine clothing do - like make the wearer feel vulnerable and exposed - but without it actually being clothing that would be seen as 'feminine'. Vulnerable and exposed is turn on for me; 'feminisation' isn't. It was very, very difficult to achieve the first without getting the second at the same time.

I don't know how others at that BDSM gig saw me. But, I guess that was secondary for me at the time, anyway. Thinking back, though, it had a curious effect: on one or two bi or gay dom men, but also a few femsubs. Interesting. And a lot of fun.



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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Why is it degrading/humiliating to feminize a man? - 7/17/2012 4:04:51 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Well lovey, you can't go around showing off without expecting to be looked at, now can you? Cuts both ways, the glamourous life!

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Why is it degrading/humiliating to feminize a man? - 7/17/2012 4:15:00 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Well lovey, you can't go around showing off without expecting to be looked at, now can you? Cuts both ways, the glamourous life!


Oh no, I was fine with being looked at. (Of course - I'd not have the pics on my profile that I do, otherwise.) But that doesn't necessarily equal 'feminine' to me.


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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Why is it degrading/humiliating to feminize a man? - 7/18/2012 5:50:24 PM   
nolacutie


Posts: 4
Joined: 7/16/2012
Status: offline 		I have had a different experience. The subs & Switches I play with really enjoy being 'dressed up'. They feel it's more empowering and sexy for them. When they do, I tell them what pretty girls they are and they smile. For my men, it's not about humilition but about a form of worship. They are taken with women and seek to experience 'womanhood', however briefly to feel closer to the woman they serve/play with.

I don't need to humilate a man by 'making him a woman' and I don't think I'd want to do that anyway but overall I I think it really depends on the man.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Why is it degrading/humiliating to feminize a man? - 7/18/2012 5:54:46 PM   
wittynamehere


Posts: 759
Joined: 2/5/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marshalp
Why is it degrading/humiliating to feminize a man?

My guess is that for various reasons, a some people don't enjoy being made to look and act certain ways. When they're forced to do it anyway, by their dominant/master/owner/top/etc, they feel humiliated. In short, they're humiliated by being forced to do something that they don't enjoy.

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RE: Why is it degrading/humiliating to feminize a man? - 7/21/2012 6:45:01 PM   
Faythless


Posts: 41
Joined: 1/31/2012
Status: offline 		I have spoken to a few submissives who are into CD or "forced fem" and it really depends on how they view the situation as some find it humiliating and degrading whereas others find it fun, erotic and both types seem to be happy with whats happening/being done to them, although that is just from the ones I have spoken to and I have to say I dont mind doing it at all, but then I guess thats personal choice. Although I have to say that those who mentioned going out into the real world dressed up were quite right (in my experience) as the submissives I spoke to positively balked at the thought of going outside in female clothing which I completely understand as it must be hard for them to think of being seen by so many people especially if said people aren't as receptive and accepting as the people/Dommes they speak to/meet.

I hope nobody thinks I'm being rude/passing judgement I just read this thread and it was very interesting.

(in reply to wittynamehere)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Why is it degrading/humiliating to feminize a man? - 7/28/2012 12:28:14 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PrincessLyr
Those who ARE humiliated by it or less embarrassed of wearing the female clothes...and more focused on the feeling is conjured up through the idea that OTHERS might think its humiliating for him. Its taboo...and taboo equals turn on.



quote:

ORIGINAL: wittynamehere
My guess is that for various reasons, a some people don't enjoy being made to look and act certain ways. When they're forced to do it anyway, by their dominant/master/owner/top/etc, they feel humiliated. In short, they're humiliated by being forced to do something that they don't enjoy.


When I was looking on this site a couple of years ago, quite a few male submissives contacted me wanting "forced feminization," and specifically needed to feel humiliated by it (and wanted their partner to be drawn to the humiliation). A couple of guys I've dated have done some light cross-dressing, and I've helped gay friends with drag outfits, so my problem was with the humiliation aspect rather than the clothes.

I might be able to get into a humiliation scene with cross-dressing a man, but just watching him put on lingerie wouldn't do that for me. Making him enter a drag queen contest, or wear a wig with curlers and the most unattractive muumuu I can find could be *genuinely* humiliating and touch his emotions in a way I'd find sexy. If the man is requesting or outright demanding to be humiliated in this way, I don't believe he's actually humiliated by it, just aroused.

I did do a "forced femme" literal scene with my female submissive. I had her put up her hair in a baseball cap, wear a wifebeater, boxers, a lumberjack shirt, and jeans to a playparty. Then, I ripped her clothes off, sent buttons flying, and wrestled her into thigh-highs, opera gloves, heels, and a dress by main force, while she giggled, fended me off, and tried to remember to struggle to get away. It was pretty hot and hilarious. I was inspired by all the "forced femme" threads/profiles/e-mails I had seen recently. I suppose telling her to wear the initial outfit could be considered mascullinization, but the point of the scene was the re-feminization.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 7/28/2012 12:30:56 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Why is it degrading/humiliating to feminize a man? - 7/29/2012 5:38:34 AM   
herpet1313


Posts: 68
Joined: 9/18/2005
Status: offline 		I think Dark Steven said it best.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Why is it degrading/humiliating to feminize a man? - 8/8/2012 11:13:31 PM   
forcedsensuality


Posts: 70
Joined: 4/27/2012
Status: offline 		interesting response Lady Hibiscus, makes me wonder, is this one of those things men are more into really ? how commonly to Dommes find themselves drawn to this activity ?

i like to indulge my femininity since i've been forced to repress it for years, so love wiggling my ass like a woman, playing "sex object" etc.., make my ass the target, imagine being sexy like a flirty woman etc..

(but obv. i do not see women as sex objects ,.. it's just a role/dynamic game to play and an excuse to wear clothes clearly designed t6o be "sexy")

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Why is it degrading/humiliating to feminize a man? - 8/8/2012 11:30:26 PM   
MissToYouRedux


Posts: 867
Joined: 1/23/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: forcedsensuality

i like to indulge my femininity since i've been forced to repress it for years, so love wiggling my ass like a woman, playing "sex object" etc.., make my ass the target, imagine being sexy like a flirty woman etc..



I'm not into forced feminization dress-up per se, but I do have this great How to Give a Lap Dance book complete with choreographies and accessory suggestions that I find having my big manly sub perform enormously entertaining. And yes, his embarrassment adds to my fun, but I don't see his spoiling me by doing what I want as degrading in the least.

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Why is it degrading/humiliating to feminize a man? - 9/18/2012 4:45:04 AM   
iwearpanties


Posts: 509
Joined: 7/21/2005
Status: offline 		If I can add or as a submissive point out . As along panty wearing non-passable nnot seeking too be a women . As a submissive I don't find humiliateing too dress I rather find it sexually exciting and a Hugh turn on wearing n feeling the other side that as men or males where not too show or express feelinngs about it . I in no way shape or form do i want my dressing to make Real Women feel that's it humiliateing too be a Female or a Women No Way at All .

Hopefully you understand and I do hope others who dress and enjoy this great fetish or love of such soft items feel the same . I recall one post had in it the feeling of being a women or to worship and maybe in some case feel wanted or needed in the way a male feels for a women . As far as humiliation I'd say it would if being seen or exposed to others maybe or espically infront of another male whos a Dom type then I think you will feel as a lesser male . Please note i don't intend too hurt or flame or change others minds just adding what little I can form the male submissive side the dose and is very comfortable doing n enjoying my fetish with disgracing or cause any type of hurt shame about a love or fetish many share even if they never tell others or seek too explore more

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Why is it degrading/humiliating to feminize a man? - 9/18/2012 7:06:17 PM   
Baroana


Posts: 1480
Joined: 11/13/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009


quote:

ORIGINAL: marshalp

If it’s degrading to feminize a man (e.g. makeup, panties, bra, skirt/dress), is it also degrading to masculinize a woman? Is there a way to do it in a degrading way? Or is the idea of “feminine == inferior” so ingrained in our society that it only works one way?





Frankly, I think it's possible to feel degraded by feminization without feeling that female=inferior. As an example, would your grandfather go out in public wearing a dress? How about your dad? Probably not. Their reluctance to wear women's clothing has NOTHING to do with thinking that women are inferior. It's simply a matter of wanting to conform to societal norms. Nothing more, and nothing less. Anyone who can't understand this is obviously wearing blinders.



My father probably would not go out in public wearing a dress. He also probably would not go out in a Peter Pan costume. Wearing a Peter Pan costume isn't normal, so why is it that no one ever brings up Panification fetishes around here?

(in reply to Rochsub2009)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Why is it degrading/humiliating to feminize a man? - 9/18/2012 8:01:30 PM   
treedcat


Posts: 13
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline 		My Masters position is that it is the ulimate act of submission to take a persons sexuality away from them and as such he required me to remove all my body hair and come to him in a short skirt and heels etc.
In my submission I found myself really getting into it because I wanted to look good for him.(I practiced daily in my heels, ladies you have my utmost admiration)
This was a lot of firsts for me and I did not feel humiliated just eager to please.

(in reply to Baroana)
Profile   Post #: 60
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