RE: George Zimmerman Update... (Full Version)

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Raiikun -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/11/2012 5:34:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yup, thats the sunshine law alright, but nothing like you are on about.

so, you got a cite to the statute?

5.  Documents given or required by law or agency rule to be given to the person arrested, except as provided in s. 119.071(2)(h), and, except that the court in a criminal case may order that certain information required by law or agency rule to be given to the person arrested be maintained in a confidential manner and exempt from the provisions of s. 119.07(1) until released at trial if it is found that the release of such information would:

(and you can quote me)


Nice of you to cut the statute short.

That statute says that evidence is excempt from 119.07 until released at trial if:

a. Be defamatory to the good name of a victim or witness or would jeopardize the safety of such victim or witness; and
b. Impair the ability of a state attorney to locate or prosecute a codefendant.

Those are the 2 very specific exemptions to the sunshine law that I mentioned above. If evidence doesn't meet those exceptions, it gets made public.



Raiikun -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/11/2012 5:38:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Zimmerman called Sanford PD, telling the dispatcher all about his frustration with black kids running around, then against his training and the advice of the dispatcher chose to confront Martin, where Zimmerman admits making threatening motions as if towards a weapon.

And that my friends, looks like the depraved indifference needed for Murder-2.


Assuming facts not in evidence. It's still not proven that Zimmerman confronted Martin (and the only earwitness the State has is full of inconsistencies), and searching your pockets to call police out of fear is not considered "provoking the use of force against you."

On top of that, the State must nullify self defense before the aspects of Murder 2 can be considered by a jury. Even if the State has the evidence to show a "depraved mind" (not likely), if the Jury finds the defendant acted in self defense; that's an acquittal.

And there's still nothing released so far to refute Zimmerman's strong claim of self defense.



Raiikun -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/11/2012 5:46:24 AM)

But anyways, here's the list of evidence made public tomorrow.

http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/redacted%20second%20discovery.pdf



mnottertail -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/11/2012 6:47:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yup, thats the sunshine law alright, but nothing like you are on about.

so, you got a cite to the statute?

5.  Documents given or required by law or agency rule to be given to the person arrested, except as provided in s. 119.071(2)(h), and, except that the court in a criminal case may order that certain information required by law or agency rule to be given to the person arrested be maintained in a confidential manner and exempt from the provisions of s. 119.07(1) until released at trial if it is found that the release of such information would:

(and you can quote me)


Nice of you to cut the statute short.

That statute says that evidence is excempt from 119.07 until released at trial if:

a. Be defamatory to the good name of a victim or witness or would jeopardize the safety of such victim or witness; and
b. Impair the ability of a state attorney to locate or prosecute a codefendant.

Those are the 2 very specific exemptions to the sunshine law that I mentioned above. If evidence doesn't meet those exceptions, it gets made public.



It is public after the case unless it is redacted by law.

I did cut it a little short, my last line should have said, yadda yadda yadda blah blah blah

They will not make their evidence public before the trial.




Owner59 -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/11/2012 6:50:24 AM)

[sm=dontfeedtrolls.gif]



Raiikun -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/11/2012 7:22:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

They will not make their evidence public before the trial.



Maybe you're unaware of the steady stream of evidence dumps being made public over the last couple of months?

The witnesses in the neighborhood, their recorded statements and 911 calls are public. The medical examiner's reports are public. Crime scene photos are public. Lots more become public tomorrow.

They had to fight the media lawyers to get the Judge to allow 30 days to make sure witness names etc are redacted before each bit of evidence goes public. The prosecution tried to keep George Zimmerman's statements sealed until the trial, but the Judge said they didn't meet the qualifications to be exempted from the Sunshine law and so they were released.



Raiikun -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/11/2012 7:38:37 AM)

And tomorrow it looks like we're getting stuff like the printouts of the dispatch feeds, Tracy Martin's phone records, crime scene diagrams, statements from the individuals the federal investigators interviewed, the crime scene contamination log, emails between George and the Police Chief, Dispatch Radio transmissions, etc.



mnottertail -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/11/2012 7:47:23 AM)

Wake the fuck up Chuckie, no evidence coming from the prosecution in there.  And will not be released until trial.  Only filed docutments with other agencies, redacted and whatnot.

The work product is yet to be seen.

By example, let's say that 15 years ago, Zimmerman beat a fucker to death...admissible or no?  Boinked his juvenile daughter 5 years ago, admissible or no?

Until pre-trial motion, discovery, and admissibility, it aint gonna be public, because it may not be part of the case, and the prejudicial clause gets it a pass, until trial.

You aint gonna make a DA Berger, let alone a Perry Mason.



Raiikun -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/11/2012 8:40:54 AM)

Do you realize at first, the Defense was willing to delay receiving Discovery from the prosecution until an arrangement was made to protect witness names etc, because as soon as the Defense received that Discovery from the Prosecution, it became public record available to the media?

Do you realize the compromise made was that any Discovery given to the Defense be allowed 30 days for review to see if any specifics (such as witness names) be redacted before it's all made public?

Maybe you should educate yourself a little here, I've been reading through and listening to evidence from the Prosecution for several weeks now while you're here claiming we won't see it until trial. It's amusing.



mnottertail -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/11/2012 8:55:25 AM)

Yeah, we know you are in your own world, optimistically ignorant of a class of things.  Lets have a look at the morgue photos of Tray, where you got them?   the bullet that shot him, wheres the pic?   The bloody hoodie, the discovery interrogation, and so on, where you got that?




farglebargle -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/11/2012 10:32:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Zimmerman called Sanford PD, telling the dispatcher all about his frustration with black kids running around, then against his training and the advice of the dispatcher chose to confront Martin, where Zimmerman admits making threatening motions as if towards a weapon.

And that my friends, looks like the depraved indifference needed for Murder-2.


Assuming facts not in evidence.


Which ones?

FACT: Zimmerman called Sanford PD.

FACT: Zimmerman told the dispatcher about his frustration.

FACT: Zimmerman was trained to avoid confrontation:

FACT: Against his training and the advice of the dispatcher chose to confront Martin

FACT: Zimmerman admits making threatening motions as if towards a weapon.

Or don't you think following someone in your car at night, then leaving your car to run after them is 'confronting' them?

If that's your problem, then I suspect you will never be convinced otherwise. You've adopted Zimmerman as your own HERO. And Your Great Hero can do no wrong. It's become almost a religious thing, and your FAITH in Zimmerman cannot be shaken.

Which explains why you "Just Don't Get It", and might never will.



Nosathro -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/11/2012 10:52:14 AM)

You know what gets me is Judge Lester stated the State Attorney Officer has strong case, yet someone thinks they know better then the Judge. I wonder what law school they went to, Law School of the Toliet. [sm=wiggleass.gif]



Raiikun -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/11/2012 12:46:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

You know what gets me is Judge Lester stated the State Attorney Officer has strong case, yet someone thinks they know better then the Judge. I wonder what law school they went to, Law School of the Toliet. [sm=wiggleass.gif]


The Judge backed off of that statement to some degree if you didn't know. He acknowledged it was a preliminary statement based on little more than the Affidavit of Probable Cause.



Raiikun -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/11/2012 12:48:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, we know you are in your own world, optimistically ignorant of a class of things.  Lets have a look at the morgue photos of Tray, where you got them?   the bullet that shot him, wheres the pic?   The bloody hoodie, the discovery interrogation, and so on, where you got that?



Photos of the corpse fits in one of the few exempt pieces of evidence. Instead though, we have the autopsy report, the DNA workup on blood spatter, the Firearms expert's report, so we know how close the gun was, where the bullet entered, the path it took, the damage it did, the bleeding it caused...



mnottertail -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/11/2012 12:51:20 PM)

again, nothing of the prosecutions work product, no prosecutorial instigated evidence, all from police and forensic agencies.



Raiikun -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/11/2012 12:55:24 PM)

As would the bloody hoodie and the bullet photos you asked about be, so what's your point?



mnottertail -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/11/2012 1:00:15 PM)

that you've never had one.



Raiikun -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/11/2012 1:05:27 PM)

My point has been that when evidence is made available through discovery, there's a 30 day period (ordered by the judge) and unless specific requests are made to seal specific things, it gets made public.

So far, what the State has asked to have sealed:

W1-22 names/addresses/phone numbers (still sealed)
Photos showing Trayvon's body. (still sealed)
George's statements to police (made public)
George's lie detector test (made public)
Trayvon's and W8's cell phone records (still sealed)
2 Statements by W9 (one made public, other ordered to be made public)
The 911 call where the shot can be heard (made public)



mnottertail -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/11/2012 1:10:27 PM)

so far.



BamaD -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/11/2012 1:22:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

My opinion: This is self-defense. Zimmerman was not the aggressor, he did nothing to provoke Trayvon Martin’s beating him


The Police, Prosecution and apparently Judge have concluded differently. They all promote the theory that George Zimmerman's following, pursuit and confrontation, including Zimmerman's admitted threatening motion as if towards a weapon, which of course contradicts thie opinion that Zimmerman wasn't the aggressor.

But of course, I don't see him discussing Zimmerman's prior training to avoid confronting suspects, and how Zimmerman's conscious choice to go against that training, and the reasonable and prudent advice he received, directly lead to the death of Trayvon Martin.

You know, because once you focus on the totality of the event, and discard this pointless bickering about what happened AFTER Zimmerman made the threatening motion as if towards a weapon, which of course, is pretty much irrelevant given all other evidence against Zimmerman. Yes, as Trayvon Martin fought for his life, George Zimmerman sustained trivial injuries. If Zimmerman didn't want the risk of being injured by his victim, he had ample opportunity to avoid it, and ample training and advice to avoid it.

Zimmerman's like the guy who is SURPRISED that if you stick your finger in the electric socket you get a shock.... But hey, given his past history of swinging first and then asking questions later, it's not a huge surprise.

Again, getting ready to flee, and then when you're prevented THEN surrendering the hidden passport and money, that's not what INNOCENT people do, is it?



If the judge has acctually expressed an opinion on Zimmermans he needs to be removed from the case now. That would preclude any chance of Zimmerman getting a fair trial.



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