RE: George Zimmerman Update...

RE: George Zimmerman Update... (Full Version)

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farglebargle -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/4/2012 3:59:59 AM)
I think that focusing on Zimmerman's trivial injuries distracts from the salient points. Zimmerman chased Martin, approached Martin, and then made a threatening gesture as if to reach for a weapon. Right there, Trayvon Martin's right to use lethal force in the defense of his life kicks in. Everything else which follows -- including Zimmerman's trivial injuries is consistent with that. But of course, the Pro-Zimmerman camp will try as hard as they can to move past that and focus on these irrelevancies, because in the cold light of day, it's clear that Zimmerman started - and ended - the entire incident.

Rule -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/4/2012 4:04:13 AM)
What is a threatening gesture? Is tying your shoelaces a threatening gesture? Is pulling on your ear a threatening gesture? Is burping a threatening gesture?

igor2003 -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/4/2012 4:26:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD And we have only seen the pictures of Zimmerman after the EMTs cleaned him up, they said there was a lot of blood. Please don't tell me you are going to go way back to triyng to claim Zimmerman wasn't injured, or that it was the actual injury not the precieved one or the anticipated one that counted. Head injuries like when your head bounces off a hard surface. Direct correlation between a gym floor and a pavement. Not sure where you got the "we" part of that unless you have a mouse in your pocket or something. One of the first pictures made public was the cell phone picture taken of the back of Zimmerman's head BEFORE the EMTs got there.

Lucylastic -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/4/2012 4:30:38 AM)
the salient points will be decided in court, Im just adding my point of interest and some experience, Im sorry I dont join in on the bullshit that passes for "salient points", Ive already stated I think hes guilty of manslaughter. I dont see the point in adding so much to the dick waving and chest thumping that passes for semantics and guesswork. Yeah a shock I know....

farglebargle -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/4/2012 4:46:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule What is a threatening gesture? Is tying your shoelaces a threatening gesture? Is pulling on your ear a threatening gesture? Is burping a threatening gesture? Reaching into your pocket for a potential weapon. See also: Amadou Diallo, where Diallo was shot dead by 4 cops as he reached for his WALLET ( he thought he was being mugged ). The shooting was deemed legal, as a reasonable person in a similar situation would have come to the same conclusion. Would you fear for your safety if you were being followed at night by a stranger in a car? Would you fear for your safety if the person following in the car exited and chased you on foot? Would you fear for your safety if the person chasing you reaches for a potential weapon? If Trayvon Martin was a cop, and shot George Zimmerman dead after everything Zimmerman did, it would be an open and shut case of Trayvon Martin's self defense. Of course, since Trayvon Martin's just a dead black kid, you're suggesting he should be treated differently?

Raiikun -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/4/2012 5:43:07 AM)
"The law, however, does not require that Mr. Wyche, or anyone situated as he was on the night in question, actually sustain serious bodily injury before responding with force, even deadly force. It is enough that he reasonbly apprehend imminent deadly force directed against him." State v. Wyche And that's the problem for the State. They can point out that his injuries weren't bad all they want...that doesn't nullify self defense. Before murder 2 or manslaughter can even be considered, self defense has to be nullified. And what matters for self defense is the moment that the shot was fired. The claim is that George was pinned down, having had his nose broken, head banged against concrete, and Trayvon was reaching for his gun. He has injuries enough to corroborate that he was on the losing end of a fight, and a witness who saw Trayvon clearly on top with George struggling to get up - that more than meets the Defense's burden at trial. Even if George was the aggressor, according to Florida law. Thus it's up to the State to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this scenario is false. To date, not a single piece of evidence to prove that has been shown, and if they can't refute that, George goes free.

vincentML -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/4/2012 5:44:48 AM)
quote: Would you fear for your safety if the person chasing you reaches for a potential weapon? No evidence, no witnesses to say it didn't happen the way the Zimmer said it happened.

Raiikun -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/4/2012 5:49:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic . doesnt look like he was bashed on the surface of the ground, maybe the edge of the kerb, but that would/should have been more severe. just my 2 cents "O'MARA: The injuries seem to be consistent with his story, though, don't they? INVESTIGATOR GILBREATH: The injuries are consistent with a harder object striking the back of his head than his head was. O'MARA: Could that be cement? INVESTIGATOR GILBREATH: Could be. O'MARA: Did you just say it was consistent or did you say it wasn't consistent? INVESTIGATOR GILBREATH: I said it was."

Lucylastic -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/4/2012 6:06:34 AM)
yawn, play your semantics with someone else consistent isnt "definite"

Rule -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/4/2012 6:10:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: Rule Is tying your shoelaces a threatening gesture? Is pulling on your ear a threatening gesture? Is burping a threatening gesture? You did not answer my questions. quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Reaching into your pocket for a potential weapon. See also: Amadou Diallo, where Diallo was shot dead by 4 cops as he reached for his WALLET ( he thought he was being mugged ). The shooting was deemed legal, as a reasonable person in a similar situation would have come to the same conclusion. I guess then that I am not a reasonable person. quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Would you fear for your safety if you were being followed at night by a stranger in a car? Indeed I did when I was stalked by an unmarked, non-descript car. I stopped bicycling and waited it out. After ten minutes I won the waiting game. The car approached me and stopped next to me. There were two cops in it. quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Would you fear for your safety if the person following in the car exited and chased you on foot? A person afoot may be outrun. Someone in a car that cannot be outrun, wielding that vehicle as a weapon, is far more to be feared. So my answer is: I would fear less when that person exited his car. quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Would you fear for your safety if the person chasing you reaches for a potential weapon? As I told you before: I clearly am not a reasonable person. I would politely ask to be shown any such hypothetical weapon in order to verify its existence. Next, if a gun, I would ask for the weapon to be fired in order to establish whether there was a bullet in it. Subsequently I would ask for it to be fired again in order to establish that there is a second - third, fourth, ..., last - bullet in it. After the last bullet was fired, I would walk away. quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle If Trayvon Martin was a cop, and shot George Zimmerman dead after everything Zimmerman did, it would be an open and shut case of Trayvon Martin's self defense. I rather doubt that a cop would act as Martin did. quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Of course, since Trayvon Martin's just a dead black kid, you're suggesting he should be treated differently? In a previous thread I already concluded that Martin was the aggressor. He was an animal that won a Darwin Award. Good riddance to him. The gene pool of his population is improved by his removal from that population.

farglebargle -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/4/2012 6:46:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: Would you fear for your safety if the person chasing you reaches for a potential weapon? No evidence, no witnesses to say it didn't happen the way the Zimmer said it happened. How can you say there are no witnesses when Trayvon Martin's girlfriend was on the phone at the time and heard Zimmerman approach? And given that Zimmerman's credibility is shot, her testimony appears to be accurate.

farglebargle -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/4/2012 6:47:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic . doesnt look like he was bashed on the surface of the ground, maybe the edge of the kerb, but that would/should have been more severe. just my 2 cents "O'MARA: The injuries seem to be consistent with his story, though, don't they? INVESTIGATOR GILBREATH: The injuries are consistent with a harder object striking the back of his head than his head was. O'MARA: Could that be cement? INVESTIGATOR GILBREATH: Could be. O'MARA: Did you just say it was consistent or did you say it wasn't consistent? INVESTIGATOR GILBREATH: I said it was." Which is irrelevant since the injuries were sustained as Trayvon Martin was fighting for his life. George Zimmerman ADMITS provoking the incident when he reached for a potential weapon.

Rule -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/4/2012 6:56:37 AM)
I notice that you still have not answered my questions.

BamaD -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/4/2012 8:28:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: igor2003 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD And we have only seen the pictures of Zimmerman after the EMTs cleaned him up, they said there was a lot of blood. Please don't tell me you are going to go way back to triyng to claim Zimmerman wasn't injured, or that it was the actual injury not the precieved one or the anticipated one that counted. Head injuries like when your head bounces off a hard surface. Direct correlation between a gym floor and a pavement. Not sure where you got the "we" part of that unless you have a mouse in your pocket or something. One of the first pictures made public was the cell phone picture taken of the back of Zimmerman's head BEFORE the EMTs got there. Hadn't seen that pic still doesn'y prove anything.

BamaD -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/4/2012 8:32:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: Rule What is a threatening gesture? Is tying your shoelaces a threatening gesture? Is pulling on your ear a threatening gesture? Is burping a threatening gesture? Reaching into your pocket for a potential weapon. See also: Amadou Diallo, where Diallo was shot dead by 4 cops as he reached for his WALLET ( he thought he was being mugged ). The shooting was deemed legal, as a reasonable person in a similar situation would have come to the same conclusion. Would you fear for your safety if you were being followed at night by a stranger in a car? Would you fear for your safety if the person following in the car exited and chased you on foot? Would you fear for your safety if the person chasing you reaches for a potential weapon? If Trayvon Martin was a cop, and shot George Zimmerman dead after everything Zimmerman did, it would be an open and shut case of Trayvon Martin's self defense. Of course, since Trayvon Martin's just a dead black kid, you're suggesting he should be treated differently? You have proclaimed the diallo case to be murder to claim it as proof that Martin was justified to attack based on that precident makes you a hypocrite. When did you hold the seance to find out what Diallo was thinking?

BamaD -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/4/2012 8:36:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic . doesnt look like he was bashed on the surface of the ground, maybe the edge of the kerb, but that would/should have been more severe. just my 2 cents "O'MARA: The injuries seem to be consistent with his story, though, don't they? INVESTIGATOR GILBREATH: The injuries are consistent with a harder object striking the back of his head than his head was. O'MARA: Could that be cement? INVESTIGATOR GILBREATH: Could be. O'MARA: Did you just say it was consistent or did you say it wasn't consistent? INVESTIGATOR GILBREATH: I said it was." Which is irrelevant since the injuries were sustained as Trayvon Martin was fighting for his life. George Zimmerman ADMITS provoking the incident when he reached for a potential weapon. Which is irrelevant since he wasn't drawing his weapon which would mean both were acting in self defense, why is that concept beyond your grasp?

igor2003 -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/4/2012 9:03:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: igor2003 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD And we have only seen the pictures of Zimmerman after the EMTs cleaned him up, they said there was a lot of blood. Please don't tell me you are going to go way back to triyng to claim Zimmerman wasn't injured, or that it was the actual injury not the precieved one or the anticipated one that counted. Head injuries like when your head bounces off a hard surface. Direct correlation between a gym floor and a pavement. Not sure where you got the "we" part of that unless you have a mouse in your pocket or something. One of the first pictures made public was the cell phone picture taken of the back of Zimmerman's head BEFORE the EMTs got there. Hadn't seen that pic still doesn'y prove anything. It proves that you were in error about the "we have only seen...." part, and proves that there was NOT a "lot of blood" as you say they claim, even though their report actually says "minor bleeding".

igor2003 -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/4/2012 9:07:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD You have proclaimed the diallo case to be murder to claim it as proof that Martin was justified to attack based on that precident makes you a hypocrite. When did you hold the seance to find out what Diallo was thinking? Martin didn't attack. He DEFENDED himself from Zimmerman's attempt to detain him.

Raiikun -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/4/2012 10:00:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: igor2003 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD You have proclaimed the diallo case to be murder to claim it as proof that Martin was justified to attack based on that precident makes you a hypocrite. When did you hold the seance to find out what Diallo was thinking? Martin didn't attack. He DEFENDED himself from Zimmerman's attempt to detain him. Zero proof of that. The State still has not shown a single piece of evidence that disproves George's story of being pinned to the ground after having his nose broken and his head banged against concrete, etc. If the State cannot refute that, George goes free.

Nosathro -> RE: George Zimmerman Update... (7/4/2012 10:13:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun "The law, however, does not require that Mr. Wyche, or anyone situated as he was on the night in question, actually sustain serious bodily injury before responding with force, even deadly force. It is enough that he reasonbly apprehend imminent deadly force directed against him." State v. Wyche And that's the problem for the State. They can point out that his injuries weren't bad all they want...that doesn't nullify self defense. Before murder 2 or manslaughter can even be considered, self defense has to be nullified. And what matters for self defense is the moment that the shot was fired. The claim is that George was pinned down, having had his nose broken, head banged against concrete, and Trayvon was reaching for his gun. He has injuries enough to corroborate that he was on the losing end of a fight, and a witness who saw Trayvon clearly on top with George struggling to get up - that more than meets the Defense's burden at trial. Even if George was the aggressor, according to Florida law. Thus it's up to the State to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this scenario is false. To date, not a single piece of evidence to prove that has been shown, and if they can't refute that, George goes free. EMT could not say what the hard object was. The Doctors report stated the head injuries were already healing, this was the day after, how bad was Zimmerman injuries, very minor. Will someone take Raiikun soap box away please.

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