quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

"The law, however, does not require that Mr. Wyche, or anyone situated as he was on the night in question, actually sustain serious bodily injury before responding with force, even deadly force. It is enough that he reasonbly apprehend imminent deadly force directed against him."

State v. Wyche

And that's the problem for the State. They can point out that his injuries weren't bad all they want...that doesn't nullify self defense. Before murder 2 or manslaughter can even be considered, self defense has to be nullified.

And what matters for self defense is the moment that the shot was fired. The claim is that George was pinned down, having had his nose broken, head banged against concrete, and Trayvon was reaching for his gun. He has injuries enough to corroborate that he was on the losing end of a fight, and a witness who saw Trayvon clearly on top with George struggling to get up - that more than meets the Defense's burden at trial. Even if George was the aggressor, according to Florida law.

Thus it's up to the State to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this scenario is false. To date, not a single piece of evidence to prove that has been shown, and if they can't refute that, George goes free.

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ORIGINAL: igor2003

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: igor2003

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

And we have only seen the pictures of Zimmerman after the EMTs cleaned him up, they said there was a lot of blood. Please don't tell me you are going to go way back to triyng to claim Zimmerman wasn't injured, or that it was the actual injury not the precieved one or the anticipated one that counted.

Head injuries like when your head bounces off a hard surface. Direct correlation between a gym floor and a pavement.

Not sure where you got the "we" part of that unless you have a mouse in your pocket or something.  One of the first pictures made public was the cell phone picture taken of the back of Zimmerman's head BEFORE the EMTs got there. 

Hadn't seen that pic still doesn'y prove anything.

It proves that you were in error about the "we have only seen...." part, and proves that there was NOT a "lot of blood" as you say they claim, even though their report actually says "minor bleeding".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

I notice that you still have not answered my questions.

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ORIGINAL: Raiikun

More than likely today will be the last day he'll ever have to see in jail over this.

The law is on his side for being released on bond tomorrow, and the facts are on his side for the self defense claim.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

"The law, however, does not require that Mr. Wyche, or anyone situated as he was on the night in question, actually sustain serious bodily injury before responding with force, even deadly force. It is enough that he reasonbly apprehend imminent deadly force directed against him."

State v. Wyche

Remember, the burden is on the State to prove George's scenario wrong; the burden of proof is not on the Defense.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

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ORIGINAL: Rule

What is a threatening gesture?

Is tying your shoelaces a threatening gesture?

Is pulling on your ear a threatening gesture?

Is burping a threatening gesture?

Reaching into your pocket for a potential weapon. See also: Amadou Diallo, where Diallo was shot dead by 4 cops as he reached for his WALLET ( he thought he was being mugged ). The shooting was deemed legal, as a reasonable person in a similar situation would have come to the same conclusion.

Would you fear for your safety if you were being followed at night by a stranger in a car?

Would you fear for your safety if the person following in the car exited and chased you on foot?

Would you fear for your safety if the person chasing you reaches for a potential weapon?

If Trayvon Martin was a cop, and shot George Zimmerman dead after everything Zimmerman did, it would be an open and shut case of Trayvon Martin's self defense.

Of course, since Trayvon Martin's just a dead black kid, you're suggesting he should be treated differently?

You have proclaimed the diallo case to be murder to claim it as proof that Martin was justified to attack based on that precident makes you a hypocrite.

When did you hold the seance to find out what Diallo was thinking?

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

"The law, however, does not require that Mr. Wyche, or anyone situated as he was on the night in question, actually sustain serious bodily injury before responding with force, even deadly force. It is enough that he reasonbly apprehend imminent deadly force directed against him."

State v. Wyche

Remember, the burden is on the State to prove George's scenario wrong; the burden of proof is not on the Defense.

So you're confirming that Trayvon Martin didn't have to actually get shot before he could lawfully use deadly force in defense of his life.

Thank you.

Helpful Hint: The VICTIM is the one being chased.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I don't see how you get from the trivial injuries Zimmerman sustained AS HIS ATTACK WAS BEING REPELLED BY HIS VICTIM to Zimmerman being in any sort of danger WHICH HIS OWN MALFEASANCE GOT HIM INTO.

quote:

If Zimmerman didn't want to expose himself to any risk or danger, he should have followed directions and stayed in his car. You know, the directions admitted into evidence as part of the Neighborhood Watch handbook. NEVER CONFRONT ANYONE?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Thats why I kept questioning the bleeding... head wounds bleed profusely...

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Popular wisdom but not always true. My son, at 18 fell while playng basketball, was knocked unconcious and broke a tile on the floor, not a mark on him. When 13 he was head to head butted by a full grown ram which afterward kept away from him, again not a mark on him. While yours is not a unreasonable assumption it isn't always true. Remember Zimmerman had a lot of blood on him when the emts arrived.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

"The law, however, does not require that Mr. Wyche, or anyone situated as he was on the night in question, actually sustain serious bodily injury before responding with force, even deadly force. It is enough that he reasonbly apprehend imminent deadly force directed against him."

State v. Wyche

Remember, the burden is on the State to prove George's scenario wrong; the burden of proof is not on the Defense.

So you're confirming that Trayvon Martin didn't have to actually get shot before he could lawfully use deadly force in defense of his life.

Thank you.

Helpful Hint: The VICTIM is the one being chased.

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ORIGINAL: GotSteel

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Thats why I kept questioning the bleeding... head wounds bleed profusely...

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Popular wisdom but not always true. My son, at 18 fell while playng basketball, was knocked unconcious and broke a tile on the floor, not a mark on him. When 13 he was head to head butted by a full grown ram which afterward kept away from him, again not a mark on him. While yours is not a unreasonable assumption it isn't always true. Remember Zimmerman had a lot of blood on him when the emts arrived.

Keep in mind that you're talking to a nurse.

That said as someone who's been injured a few times I figure I'll weigh in with my own anecdotal evidence as well. Sure I've had a concussion so bad that I couldn't stand without vomiting but every time blunt trauma has left a cut on my head I've ended up covered in blood.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I don't see how you get from the trivial injuries Zimmerman sustained AS HIS ATTACK WAS BEING REPELLED BY HIS VICTIM to Zimmerman being in any sort of danger WHICH HIS OWN MALFEASANCE GOT HIM INTO.

If Zimmerman didn't want to expose himself to any risk or danger, he should have followed directions and stayed in his car. You know, the directions admitted into evidence as part of the Neighborhood Watch handbook. NEVER CONFRONT ANYONE?

See, that's a huge part of the State's case. ZIMMERMAN HAD TRAINING TO AVOID CONFRONTING SUSPECTS. And he went out of his way to act in violation of that training.

That makes it an intentional act. And given the state has a whole lot of evidence of Zimmerman's instability, there's a pattern.

As someone else opined, good thing he got away from the whole "Skinhead" thing. That wouldn't play well at all with a jury. Of course, they're going to see plenty of photos of "Skinhead George", so I don't know if it just comes off as "George is trying to play the Jury again..." You know, because has his own attorney said, Zimmerman doesn't TRUST the court....

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ORIGINAL: GotSteel

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Thats why I kept questioning the bleeding... head wounds bleed profusely...

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Popular wisdom but not always true. My son, at 18 fell while playng basketball, was knocked unconcious and broke a tile on the floor, not a mark on him. When 13 he was head to head butted by a full grown ram which afterward kept away from him, again not a mark on him. While yours is not a unreasonable assumption it isn't always true. Remember Zimmerman had a lot of blood on him when the emts arrived.

Keep in mind that you're talking to a nurse.

That said as someone who's been injured a few times I figure I'll weigh in with my own anecdotal evidence as well. Sure I've had a concussion so bad that I couldn't stand without vomiting but every time blunt trauma has left a cut on my head I've ended up covered in blood.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: igor2003

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

And we have only seen the pictures of Zimmerman after the EMTs cleaned him up, they said there was a lot of blood. Please don't tell me you are going to go way back to triyng to claim Zimmerman wasn't injured, or that it was the actual injury not the precieved one or the anticipated one that counted.

Head injuries like when your head bounces off a hard surface. Direct correlation between a gym floor and a pavement.

Not sure where you got the "we" part of that unless you have a mouse in your pocket or something.  One of the first pictures made public was the cell phone picture taken of the back of Zimmerman's head BEFORE the EMTs got there. 

Hadn't seen that pic still doesn'y prove anything.

It proves that you were in error about the "we have only seen...." part, and proves that there was NOT a "lot of blood" as you say they claim, even though their report actually says "minor bleeding".

My information came from the EMT report obviously you don't think they knew what they were doing, and the amout of blood has no bearing on the self defense claim. That's what I meant by it doesn't make a difference. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I have had 2 concusions with no bleeding but they don't count because I was wearing a padded helmet at the time. Which brings up something else, didn't Zimmerman have a hood or something over his head because of the rain and wouldn't that have affected the degree of cutting?