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RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe - 7/4/2012 2:04:28 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline 		"Made you look," even though I wasn't playing that game.

Thanks for the respectful and, as always, entertaining response.

I suppose I might have gone out of the way in pointing out my fascination with what we -don't even know yet- what to look for, just to go along with all the money being spent regarding what we know to look for. I appreciate CERN, no question. But aside the fact that it put almost half my family at Fermilab in Illinois out of work, (which, most of them were only temps anyway, no big deal), it still makes me wonder who is out there that is coming up with questions the rest of us haven't thought of yet. Not talking about the philosophy pooh bahs, I mean something that could be at least potentially (and reallistically) have something to do with reality someday.

I am a nature of spirit. Or a spirit of nature. What I will never understand is the pursuit of science to 'validate' spirit. Science will never, ever, figure out how to tell people to get along, and why people blatheringly pursue that particular course is beyond me.

Bertrand Russel tried; I read; the world said different, etc. He made the mistake of answering to religionists, and in the process made the mistake of becoming a counter-religionist.

I thank him for trying.

What I learned in the process is to avoid the distraction. Saves tons of paper.








< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/4/2012 2:17:53 PM >

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe - 7/4/2012 2:27:15 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

"Made you look," even though I wasn't playing that game.

Thanks for the respectful and, as always, entertaining response.

I suppose I might have gone out of the way in pointing out my fascination with what we -don't even know yet- what to look for, just to go along with all the money being spent regarding what we know to look for. I appreciate CERN, no question. But aside the fact that it put almost half my family at Fermilab in Illinois out of work, (which, most of them were only temps anyway, no big deal), it still makes me wonder who is out there that is coming up with questions the rest of us haven't thought of yet. Not talking about the philosophy pooh bahs, I mean something that could be at least potentially (and reallistically) have something to do with reality someday.

The guys at Fermi and the ones at CERN were/are answering questions no one else has thought of. For instance the confirmation of the Higgs Boson pretty much confirms the Standard Model of quantum physics. With all the fundamental particles observed and measured the experimental physics guys can get serious about figuring out gravity. Which could either turn out to be strictly of interest to phyicists, if there is no reasonable way to manipuate it, or it could change our entire culture much like the ability to control electroagnetism did during the 20th century.

(in reply to Edwynn)
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RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe - 7/4/2012 2:29:54 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		we have found a few exploitations of gravity (or not) already, one major one being slingshotting things around large masses,.

Now if we can out and out juke the fucker.............oh yeah!!!!

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RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe - 7/4/2012 2:32:45 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

we have found a few exploitations of gravity (or not) already, one major one being slingshotting things around large masses,.

Now if we can out and out juke the fucker.............oh yeah!!!!

yeah. I meant more like generation and control of gravitational attraction not just taking advantage of existing gravity wells.

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe - 7/4/2012 2:34:06 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		TRACTOR BEAMS~~~~~~~Repulsion beams!!!!

Make it so, Number one.

Jean Claude Van Damme right!!!

(PS, it looks like although the aether is fucked, there is a field out there.....I hope so). 

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 7/4/2012 2:35:13 PM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe - 7/4/2012 3:20:17 PM   
PeonForHer


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Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		FR

May I gently point out that they found the 'God particle' in Europe. They haven't found it in the USA or Canada yet. However, no doubt the scientists there (both of them) are hard at work trying to find the Satan particle.

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RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe - 7/4/2012 3:31:18 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Well, you got the bloody church of England, don't you; then? 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe - 7/4/2012 3:44:18 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
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Bingo.

Along with thinking they've got Liz I to cover their arse on just about everything, in that way of thinking.







< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/4/2012 3:51:05 PM >

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe - 7/4/2012 3:47:00 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline 		~



< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/4/2012 3:49:34 PM >

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe - 7/4/2012 4:04:19 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Heres for the guys that ain't up to light speed on this:

http://worldsciencefestival.com/events/higgs_boson_announcement/main

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe - 7/4/2012 4:36:10 PM   
hardcybermaster


Posts: 904
Joined: 10/6/2008
Status: offline 		JET PACKS
does any of this have anything to do with jet packs?

when can I have my jet pack?

they promised jet packs

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insert something clever or profound that someone else thought of

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RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe - 7/4/2012 4:38:30 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

May I gently point out that they found the 'God particle' in Europe. They haven't found it in the USA or Canada yet. However, no doubt the scientists there (both of them) are hard at work trying to find the Satan particle.


I once married the Satan particle....it exists.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe - 7/4/2012 4:40:09 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

"Made you look," even though I wasn't playing that game.

Thanks for the respectful and, as always, entertaining response.

I suppose I might have gone out of the way in pointing out my fascination with what we -don't even know yet- what to look for, just to go along with all the money being spent regarding what we know to look for. I appreciate CERN, no question. But aside the fact that it put almost half my family at Fermilab in Illinois out of work, (which, most of them were only temps anyway, no big deal), it still makes me wonder who is out there that is coming up with questions the rest of us haven't thought of yet. Not talking about the philosophy pooh bahs, I mean something that could be at least potentially (and reallistically) have something to do with reality someday.

The guys at Fermi and the ones at CERN were/are answering questions no one else has thought of. For instance the confirmation of the Higgs Boson pretty much confirms the Standard Model of quantum physics. With all the fundamental particles observed and measured the experimental physics guys can get serious about figuring out gravity. Which could either turn out to be strictly of interest to phyicists, if there is no reasonable way to manipuate it, or it could change our entire culture much like the ability to control electroagnetism did during the 20th century.


Yeah but....it doesn't do a damn thing about explaining jeans worn around ones ankles.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe - 7/4/2012 4:52:25 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline 		Heya.


The Avatar is tops.

The cat is looking after her chick. The instinctive maternity/paternity thing makes cats wonder if they are supposed to take care of it or take it home for groceries to the other kids. My recent cat ate mice whole, all but the head. But when I was growing up I saw various cats feeding (not feeding on) anything and everything at the teat, including dog puppies. When out of mom duties, they caught chipmunks. No figuring them out, not at all.

Cats are almost as confused as humans. Did you ever see whatever nature show where a Lioness thought some gazelle was her child? Wacko, but heart rending and all that.






< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/4/2012 4:59:01 PM >

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe - 7/4/2012 4:54:57 PM   
hardcybermaster


Posts: 904
Joined: 10/6/2008
Status: offline 		now that is a massive derailing of the thread, out of nowhere too

Bravo!

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe - 7/4/2012 5:00:38 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
Gracias.

But we were discussing putative understanding of the universe, were we not?

I am far from devoid of whatever math and Economics and my wonderful Geology classes might have taught me.

But what I saw in nature in early life constitutes a far more reaching experience. Nothing at the Uni or any other side reading of my own volition and search has explained any of that.

Just saying.

Nothing at the HS or the Uni ever impressed me as much as the huge snapper turtle biting off the end of a shovel in one go, in my neighbor's back yard, in the same creek as ran through my adjacent backyard. Makes a kid think before he crosses, (or sticking his barefoot in, which I did then and still do) no question. But I was much more aware. Not to mention the Venus flytraps I saw in action in eastern NC, for whatever brief spell. I never wore shoes in the summer, not because the family could not afford them, but because I despised and could not withstand them unless absolutely necessary. I went barefoot in one or two classes, and several flights, sneaking that in. Just couldn't help it, the 1/64th native possibly being a part of that, as if it mattered.

Sorry to be so 'de-railing' and boring and whatnot. "The universe comes to you," has been my experience, the human part of it being somewhat more difficult in this corner.

I'll leave my cucumber picking to another thread, rest assured.












< Message edited by Edwynn -- 7/4/2012 6:02:18 PM >

(in reply to hardcybermaster)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe - 7/5/2012 5:20:52 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Heres for the guys that ain't up to light speed on this:

http://worldsciencefestival.com/events/higgs_boson_announcement/main


Thanks for the lecture. It was spot on helpful. Hard to shake the ether error though, isn't it, except apparently higgs fits the math. So, at least it is complimentary. Of special interest was Greene's comment that the Higgs field could explain the BANG in the Big Bang if all those zero rotation particles could be gathered in one spot. Which leads to the next logical reduction question: How could they all have gathered in one spot? There is no end to science, is there?

One further question comes to mind: Is the Higgs field the same as dark matter then?

< Message edited by vincentML -- 7/5/2012 5:31:40 AM >

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe - 7/5/2012 7:43:11 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		http://news.yahoo.com/giant-dark-matter-bridge-between-galaxy-clusters-discovered-175155043.html

Nope, different things, the Higgs Boson (or some like thing (cuz I am sure we didnt get it exactly right the first time and it will need some tinkering)) is seeable and acts in some knowable repeatable ways.

It would be a very thick pea-jello soup if 83% of the universe were higgs bosuns.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe - 7/5/2012 7:47:53 AM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
One further question comes to mind: Is the Higgs field the same as dark matter then?

No.

Higgs is what gives matter mass. Dark matter, if it exists, would be matter that is very hard to observe by the common methods employed by astronomers. The presently leading theory is that dark matter is composed of particles that only interact with the weak nuclear force and gravity. These particles, Weakly Interacting Massive Particles (WIMP's), would be similiar to nuetrinos but slower in velcoity and therefore able to have significant mass. Since they would not interact with electromagnetism they would not be observable directly and the lack of interaction with the strong nuclear force would make it so they could travel through an atomic nucleus without effect on that nucleus which would mean that standard particle collider experiments also would never detect WIMP's.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 7/5/2012 7:50:15 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Are we there yet? Science and the Universe - 7/5/2012 7:52:22 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I wonder if anyone has calculated the weight (actually the mass of course) of the sunlight bearing down on the earth at any given time?  Silly me, of course they have...but where?

Any one got a cite?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 60
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