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What is the Republicans' plan? - 7/11/2012 11:11:48 PM   
Lordandmaster


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I really don't get it.

Their plan for health insurance is Don't get sick (and die quickly if you do).

Their plan for social security is Let's not have social security.

Their plan for the national education system is Let's give everybody vouchers that they can use at private schools instead.

Their plan for the federal deficit is Let's hold the nation's credit rating hostage by threatening not to raise the debt limit (even though Congress had already approved the deficit spending that was at issue). Remember that little caper last summer?

Their plan for job-creation is Let's keep giving tax breaks to billionaires and banks and oil companies, because they're the job-creators (even though we're going on eleven years of this now, and I'm afraid I don't see the jobs that they were supposed to create).

I'm trying to be open-minded, but why does 40+% of the population want to see more of this?

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 7/11/2012 11:13:02 PM >
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RE: What is the Republicans' plan? - 7/12/2012 6:46:42 AM   
Musicmystery


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I have been asking myself this question since January 1981.

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RE: What is the Republicans' plan? - 7/12/2012 7:45:04 AM   
Moonhead


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I'm not sure, but on observations in here, the Republican plan appears to be: "bitch, moan, play victim and blame the other party for everything".

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RE: What is the Republicans' plan? - 7/12/2012 9:37:51 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

I'm not sure, but on observations in here, the Republican plan appears to be: "bitch, moan, play victim and blame the other party for everything".



Yea, because there aren't any liberals on the forums who do that, right?


Well none that you will ever acknowledge.

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RE: What is the Republicans' plan? - 7/12/2012 9:42:42 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

I'm not sure, but on observations in here, the Republican plan appears to be: "bitch, moan, play victim and blame the other party for everything".



Yea, because there aren't any liberals on the forums who do that, right?


Well none that you will ever acknowledge.

Clearly, he's talking about Republicans in office.

People generically bitch and moan. But they don't usually call it their plan.

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RE: What is the Republicans' plan? - 7/12/2012 11:23:59 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I really don't get it.

Their plan for health insurance is Don't get sick (and die quickly if you do).

Their plan for social security is Let's not have social security.

Their plan for the national education system is Let's give everybody vouchers that they can use at private schools instead.

Their plan for the federal deficit is Let's hold the nation's credit rating hostage by threatening not to raise the debt limit (even though Congress had already approved the deficit spending that was at issue). Remember that little caper last summer?

Their plan for job-creation is Let's keep giving tax breaks to billionaires and banks and oil companies, because they're the job-creators (even though we're going on eleven years of this now, and I'm afraid I don't see the jobs that they were supposed to create).

I'm trying to be open-minded, but why does 40+% of the population want to see more of this?


Sadly, I have not seen a plan presented by the GOP that is workable.

And you do notice none on these boards are bringing up one.

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RE: What is the Republicans' plan? - 7/12/2012 11:30:58 AM   
farglebargle


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Their "Plan" is to continue throwing a temper tantrum like a spoiled brat who isn't getting their way. The question is, "Will enough people buy Romney's act that there isn't a critical mass of pissed off voters who realize that Romney and his rich friends are pretty much just buying the White House.

You know, because it belongs to them... WHITE House....



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RE: What is the Republicans' plan? - 7/12/2012 11:33:13 AM   
Yachtie


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The Liberal Plan is the Nanny State.

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RE: What is the Republicans' plan? - 7/12/2012 11:37:15 AM   
joether


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The part that has been annoying me is the manner to which Republicans 'get off' on being stupid. Recall back during the 2008 election, then, Sen. Obama stated that to get better fuel mileage, one should make sure their car is operating efficiently and well. And added that one should make sure their tires are at the proper air pressure, rather than deflated. There was physics and economic thought in those statements. Yet, many Republicans slammed him for making such remarks.

Years ago, the idea of 'fiscal responsibility' had some merit to it. Not increase the US Budget drastically, while paying down existing debts. That if the budget was increased, the reasoning for it was debated, considered and researched ahead of time for how it was to be increased, how long, and who really gets effected by its short/long term lifecycle. In recent years, the 'fiscal conservative' as it was dubbed back then, is now just both a joke and a shadow. For example, if the nation has 178 units of debt at current (this is an abstract example). If the country decides that debt should be paid off (like say, a housing mortage on a bigger scale), paying at 11 units a year (8 for the principle, 3 for the interest), it will take about twenty-two years.

'Old School' conservatives would have set money aside to pay that debt off. Most likely in a bank or similar investing insitution that was safe from bankruptcy or corruption. The knowledge the money was handling the problem, year after year, could be told to the citizens that they, the elected officals, had solved the problem. It was a long term problem, but would be settled out within 16 years.

'New School' conservatives believe that the budget shouldnt increase at all, but rather decrease quickly. The problem (as seen for over a decade now) is decreasing revenue intake, while doing nothing on the budget, creates deficit that gets added onto the debt. So the formula and plan the old school conservatives developed is now removed for a plan that involves no long term thinking or planning (beyound 2-3 years). In fact, the money that was put into the original plan, is taken out to off-set the deficit 'for a few years', creating an even bigger financial problem that doesnt get addressed properly. To which the new school conservatives would just 'shovel off' to someone else to deal with. Than, after that group was dealing with the problem, not only blame that group for screwing things up, but convince their voters its the fault of the other group for doing it.

So the most recent thought (of this abstract example) by the new school conservatives is to pay the debt off, but only at 4 units a year (1 unit for the principle and 3 for the interest), while assuring their voters (who are not doing the math and long term planning) that this will in fact pay off the debt....FASTER. Its just criminal behavior at its worst! For example, last years, Mr. Romney paid 13.9% in taxes on all his income. His administration wishs to give him and others in his bracket (the top 2% of income earners) another 20% reduction in taxes being paid. How does lowering revenune pay off long and short term debts....faster (which is another aspect of Mr. Romney's economic plan)? It just doesnt make rational sense!

"Starve the Beast" as the new school conservatives call it, has two fatal flaws.

A) By lowering revenue as a long term economic plan, put much more strain on a budget that is not directly tied to how much money comes in (i.e. deficit spending for the Reagan Admin.). These new line of conservatives have been trying to corrupt others to believe that what they think is waste, really is waste; when the reality is the money is spent on good things that keep the economy rolling. They (the new scnool conservatives) know most conservatives in generally are not knowledgable about the financial numbers on a large and complicated scale. In fact, most conservatives demand everything be made simple and easy to understand. They dont wish to listen to the liberal financial guys, since their numbers are factual and true. Better to believe the fantasy than the truth, right?

The long term economic and financial plan of these new school conservatives is just dangerous at best, and financial sucuide at worst. After a time, there is only one of two possible outcomes (and neither are good, enjoyable, or favorable on any current scale). 1) We "stay the course" (to quote a 'famous' financial 'smart guy' from 2000-2008) by not making prudent adjustments to the taxes. Thereby setting us up to be like Greece over a period of years from now (8-22 years). 2) After a few years, the taxes are nearly doubled, after conservatives 'wake up and smell the coffee' before the country takes a financial nose dive into absolute disaster. And what happens in America, will effect other nations around the world, which will come back to hit America even worst the second time (as the country is invested in many systems and concepts in other markets). Sort of a 'one two punch' that KO's the nation.

Either of those two options sound fun and enjoyable? Only if your a total moron, idiot, or insane anarchist.

B) Failing to understand long term planning. When you invest in a house and purchase it via a loan from the bank. You establish a long term plan to both own the house (i.e. obtain the deed to it), and create long term wealth for yourself through the investment of the property. The country has to do that on an epic scale! But by drawing down future revunues, even while the budget is not adjusted, creates those financial land mines. Since some programs were designed to work long term rather than a fixed number of years. It was believed people would remain wise to the 'ebb and flow' of economic markets every year. And that during bull markets, the nation puts additional funds aside to help pay for things when the economy is in a bear market. That's old school conservative planning.

However, new school conservatives apply long term financial planning like they plan running for office. 'Short term' to them is about 3-4 months. 'Long term' is abour 3-4 years. Compare that to liberals it is a very short life cycle of thinking. Liberal 'short term' planning is about 2-4 years. 'Long term' is about 10-20 years. So when the new school conservatives apply their 'thinking' to financial matters, usually wisdom doesnt enter the picture. They cant pay off a huge debt within a presidential term. So they say "fuck it", drain the account and apply it to stave off the deficit that they created. Even though that account, if left alone, would have solved the problem 10 to 20 years later.

But this is only one of perhaps dozens if not tens of major problems effecting this nation at present and within the long term future. The more erractic the 'new school conservative financial philosophy' (yeah, say that five times fast) becomes, the less stability you'll witness in the American financial market place. At one time, a goverment contract was a stable source of income for a company. The company could hire workers for the duration of said contract knowing the country would pay for their products and services without a problem. Allowing these new school conservatives 'at the helm' creates an uncertain amount anxiety among American business owners big and small. The contract they get today, could be gone tommorow. How does a business plan a long term strategy with regards to said contract from the US Goverment? As can be seen, the markets are having huge problems because Congress (with these new school conservatives) is more volitale and uncertain. Companies can not plan long term, if they believe the contracts they got in good faith with the goverment will be honored during the course and completion of their end of the deal.

And 'yes', I've conserably dumbed down this material given some of the audience members knowledge base. It gets highly technical, complex and complicated the more indepth one ventures. Most of the calculations on things are so advanced the human brain by itself can not go from start to finish without the aid of computer systems to do the massive number crunching. You try doing thirty-two trillion individual calculations within a few days!

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RE: What is the Republicans' plan? - 7/12/2012 11:38:29 AM   
tazzygirl


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I refuse to buy into the rhetoric that all Republican's are racist. For some, that is true.. for others it isnt.

I have been the loudest proponent of ACA.. and even I am not happy with it.

I wanted a single payer national health care system....

I was willing to see what both sides had to offer.

Tort reform is a joke.

Reducing costs when no one knows what the costs truly are is laughable.

The ONLY way top reduce health care costs is to have a healthier society.

Only ONE way to have such a society.. and that is to cover everyone.

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RE: What is the Republicans' plan? - 7/12/2012 11:39:35 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

The Liberal Plan is the Nanny State.


And exactly what is the Republican plan?

You hate the liberal plan so much....

Offer up the alternative.

Or is there one?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: What is the Republicans' plan? - 7/12/2012 11:41:22 AM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
The Liberal Plan is the Nanny State.


An are you educated enough to explain what the 'Liberal Nanny State' and 'Conservative Nanny State' are defined as, as well as give examples of each? Yeah, easy to babbly nonsense. Harder to explain indepth when put on the spot, isnt it?


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RE: What is the Republicans' plan? - 7/12/2012 11:42:05 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

The Liberal Plan is the Nanny State.

Oooh! Oooh! Oooh! A sound bite!

Now, about that plan you don't have.....

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RE: What is the Republicans' plan? - 7/12/2012 11:44:54 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

The Liberal Plan is the Nanny State.

Oooh! Oooh! Oooh! A sound bite!

Now, about that plan you don't have.....


Corporations as State, is as close as I can pencil them out.

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RE: What is the Republicans' plan? - 7/12/2012 11:47:57 AM   
Musicmystery


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Ah. The plan that blew up so badly in the 1920s. Got it.

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RE: What is the Republicans' plan? - 7/12/2012 11:48:31 AM   
subrob1967


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Nancy said it best... You have to vote for them to find out what the plan is! You guys fell for it in 10, why not now?

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RE: What is the Republicans' plan? - 7/12/2012 11:51:29 AM   
Musicmystery


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Da Plan!!! Da Plan!!! Where's the Plan!!!!

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RE: What is the Republicans' plan? - 7/12/2012 11:53:07 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Nancy said it best... You have to vote for them to find out what the plan is! You guys fell for it in 10, why not now?


You misquoted that and you took it out of context, she sure as shit wasn't talking about drooling imbeciles with no plan.

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RE: What is the Republicans' plan? - 7/12/2012 11:54:35 AM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
The Liberal Plan is the Nanny State.


And exactly what is the Republican plan?

You hate the liberal plan so much....

Offer up the alternative.

Or is there one?


Could he offer up a plan that he likes, but liberals would like to? A full plan, not 'half-baked'. A plan that covers the internal and external problems. A plan that takes short term and long term financial, economic, and legal problems into study, with solid and well backed research into account. A plan that asked the question "What happens if things dont work as plan" and gives prudent and wise answers. A plan to which Americans of every skin, eye, hair, and oh yes, blood color can agree to (cus Republicans have green blood apparently.....). Where the majority are helped and the minority are not marginizalized or removed; but give protections. The rich do not grow richer and the poor do not become poorer. A plan that takes into account what we know so far from science, research, development, philosophy and history. And does NOT screw around with the Constitution so much, that the plan is forever costing us legal money in a billion court cases of every color, shape and flavor.

Your really think Yachtie is really capacible to achieve such a notion on his own?

....Good Luck....

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RE: What is the Republicans' plan? - 7/12/2012 12:13:45 PM   
tazzygirl


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No, I asked for the Republican alternative... not Yachtie's plan.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to joether)
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