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Why ObamaCare might work - 7/16/2012 7:25:31 AM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		In ObamaCare and Mandatory Automobile Insurance I briefly discussed the position that was taken by the Supreme Court. Why is it a tax and not a penalty? I concluded to my horror that the Supreme Court is describing the relationship mathematically. There is something wrong with their thinking, but what was it? Their formula for drawing the distinction between a tax and a penalty disclaims our capacity to be moral actors, but things can be the opposite to what they appear to be.

This morning I noticed that LookieNoNookie posted something to my Sleep of Reason thread and I noticed that his photo changed. It is a photo of a sign that says the following:

quote:


Today's Special

Buy one Fish & Chips for the price of two and receive a second Fish & Chips ABSOLUTELY FREE!


It may take a moment for it to sink in.

What the sign said reminds me of the sort of problems encountered in behavioral economics. Behavioral economics posits that we are not rational economic actors, rational with respect to the equations that is. Our capacity to be a moral actor would appear irrational.

To illustrate my point in a manner that this audience may be able to understand and appreciate I will use the following example. What the Supreme Court said in effect is that in order to modify the behavior of your subbie, you must beat your subbie to the point of trauma. We all know that is silly. Why is it silly? It is silly because your subbie is a moral actor. There is no need to beat your subbie to the point of trauma because your subbie in truth hopes to please you and if your subbie does not hope to please you, there is no point to the punishment. Why bother?

That the government did not have a law on the books that said we must purchase health insurance sent a subliminal message that there is no obligation to have it. As moral actors we can respond in a manner that does not make economic sense from the stand point of how an economist may see things.
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RE: Why ObamaCare might work - 7/16/2012 8:14:18 AM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		In post 5 in the Medicaid and the Affordable Care Act or Obamacare(s) thread Musicmystery wrote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

It is, after all, the plan the Republicans put forth in the 90s.


This is what disturbs me. This was just before the global financial crisis when everyone had their, how should I put it, head up their ass? When our economy was being run by fanatics. The Supreme Court is showing signs that it has not taken in what happened either.

LookieNoNookie photo is an example of corporate America lying to us. This sort of lying by business became totally acceptable. The subliminal message was dishonesty for the sake of economic progress was as pure as the driven snow.

Hopefully, ObamaCare is the right application and was more thoughtfully implemented compared to what came before.

Consult
Affordable Care Act and Its Implementation
ObamaCare and Mandatory Automobile Insurance

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RE: Why ObamaCare might work - 7/16/2012 8:40:44 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		ObamaCare already works. It's been in place for a while now; more provisions start in 2014.

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RE: Why ObamaCare might work - 7/16/2012 9:05:53 AM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

ObamaCare already works. It's been in place for a while now; more provisions start in 2014.


It is possible you elaborated else where, but my knee jerk reaction is to say aren't you being a little premature in saying that? I recall someone citing Massachusetts, but that is only one state.

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RE: Why ObamaCare might work - 7/16/2012 9:40:11 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Several provisions have been in place for a while now. Hardly premature.

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RE: Why ObamaCare might work - 7/16/2012 10:01:09 AM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Several provisions have been in place for a while now. Hardly premature.


I have to confess that I do not regard what you just wrote as especially persuasive. A vague something about provisions that have been in place for awhile now. It is like saying the ground work for the revolution is in place.

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RE: Why ObamaCare might work - 7/16/2012 10:19:10 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		One does not try and persuade disbelievers or the untutored.  One states facts, and thats about the gamut.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Why ObamaCare might work - 7/16/2012 10:29:25 AM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

One does not try and persuade disbelievers or the untutored.  One states facts, and thats about the gamut.


What facts? the ground work for the revolution is in place?

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RE: Why ObamaCare might work - 7/16/2012 10:38:24 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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Status: offline 		That closing the circle may not have been the 9th level of hell that Dante set it out to be, unless you like zagnut bars.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Why ObamaCare might work - 7/16/2012 10:50:55 AM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
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Status: offline 		Oh, ok.

quote:


Since Zagnuts have no chocolate to melt, they have seen a resurgence in popularity among US troops in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. Stateside, candy and convenience stores stock Zagnut unevenly, since it has only a niche market.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zagnut


mnottertail likes to speak in symbols. It would be nice to make a few friends to pass the time and it would be nice to find one, two, three, a dozen good females to serve me. What do I care?

Military expenditures brought the former Soviet Union to its knees. Does Romney know this?

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RE: Why ObamaCare might work - 7/16/2012 11:37:15 AM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		http://www.healthcare.gov/law/timeline/

Honestly, do some homework.

_____________________________

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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Why ObamaCare might work - 7/16/2012 12:01:15 PM   
BenevolentM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

http://www.healthcare.gov/law/timeline/

Honestly, do some homework.


What does the time line having to do with the matter at hand?

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RE: Why ObamaCare might work - 7/16/2012 12:03:47 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		Because it shows that over half the ACA law has already been implemented.. and.. locally... the Paperwork reduction, which is the next step, has already been implemented as well, thus laying a very firm groundwork.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BenevolentM)
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RE: Why ObamaCare might work - 7/16/2012 12:31:11 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Because it shows that over half the ACA law has already been implemented.. and.. locally... the Paperwork reduction, which is the next step, has already been implemented as well, thus laying a very firm groundwork.


In other words, a lot of thought has gone into it. For this reason, be confident.

It seems complicated. They mentioned special insurance for people with preexisting conditions. I thought that this was outlawed. Now I hear there will be special policies for this.

I get the impression that they may have over thought the plumbing.

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RE: Why ObamaCare might work - 7/16/2012 12:39:47 PM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		There may even be some plumbing left in the legislation that still works: the Republicans can't have fillibustered everything worthwhile out of the bill...

_____________________________

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(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Why ObamaCare might work - 7/16/2012 12:57:54 PM   
BenevolentM


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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

There may even be some plumbing left in the legislation that still works: the Republicans can't have fillibustered everything worthwhile out of the bill...


So in other words instead of a bicycle we have a unicycle? This may seem cruel, but clowns ride unicycles.

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RE: Why ObamaCare might work - 7/16/2012 1:09:34 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		The Republicans nicked the front half of teh Kenyan's bicycle to make him look like a clown.
He's at least dealing with that with slightly more dignity than the chimp would have managed...

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Why ObamaCare might work - 7/16/2012 1:12:13 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Because it shows that over half the ACA law has already been implemented.. and.. locally... the Paperwork reduction, which is the next step, has already been implemented as well, thus laying a very firm groundwork.


In other words, a lot of thought has gone into it. For this reason, be confident.

It seems complicated. They mentioned special insurance for people with preexisting conditions. I thought that this was outlawed. Now I hear there will be special policies for this.

I get the impression that they may have over thought the plumbing.



A Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan (PCIP) provides new coverage options to individuals who have been uninsured for at least six months because of a pre-existing condition. States have the option of running this new program in their state. If a state has chosen not to do so, a plan has been established by the Department of Health and Human Services in that state. This program serves as a bridge to 2014, when all discrimination against pre-existing conditions will be prohibited.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to BenevolentM)
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RE: Why ObamaCare might work - 7/16/2012 1:16:37 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

The Republicans nicked the front half of teh Kenyan's bicycle to make him look like a clown.
He's at least dealing with that with slightly more dignity than the chimp would have managed...


There is always David Icke's problem-reaction-solution. Nick the front half of the bicycle, create the problem. Get him to ride the bicycle as if he was a clown, then finally arrive with the solution, very evil.

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RE: Why ObamaCare might work - 7/16/2012 1:21:42 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		That clarifies things tazzygirl. The need to have special insurance for people with preexisting conditions is a temporary fix that will be done away with soon. Got it.

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