RE: two worlds of trust (Full Version)

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enigmabrat -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 6:50:13 AM)

There is absolutely no point in risking my marriage for a D/s relationship unless it is filling an unmet need in me - the deep longing to give over control to another person and put myself and my trust in another's hands.  I know I must bring the best of myself to this relationship if I am to be worthy of his trust and if I am to learn what submission is really all about and if I am to peel back the layers to expose my whole self to my Dom and to myself
 
do you even relise how selfish that is, You are useing your husband so that you wont be alone. Your just waiting for something better to come along and that is so messed up. You have no right to come here and defend your actions and claim you deserve to be trusted!!




darkinshadows -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 6:51:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

All the talk of honesty, fidelity and trust in D/s lifestyle is a load of crap. People are people and have been since Adam and Eve. If they are not satisfied in one relationship the pressure will be on to seek a better relationship or even if they aren't looking, to cheat if they meet someone they fall for. In an ideal world the person involved would be honest but that is not as easy as it sounds.

People are in a state of flux so feelings and circumstances change. Cheating and being cheated on is not nice and I can understand both. You can't stop yourself falling for someone that you happen to meet but do have control over whether you actively look for someone else. If you meet and fall for someone else one should come clean as soon as one has got the guts and not let someone plan the future in the belief the relationship is good. It's planned maliciousness that fills me with rage not a bruised ego.

As for trust, integrity and honesty in the life style, they are all vacuous platitudes.

Can I admit to having a meatcleaver crush?[:D]...
Maybe it's just a phase...
 
Peace and Rapture




LeMis -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 6:57:16 AM)

Just my opinion, but nobody has the right to judge anyone else unless you have walked a mile in thier shoes.   Sounds like a lot of judgemental "opinions" and a few "judge, jury & executioner" posts here as well, lol.  
Not saying one person is right or wrong, but life isn't always black and white either.  To each their own.

Peace.




KatyLied -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 6:57:23 AM)

quote:


ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
All the talk of honesty, fidelity and trust in D/s lifestyle is a load of crap. People are people and have been since Adam and Eve. If they are not satisfied in one relationship the pressure will be on to seek a better relationship or even if they aren't looking, to cheat if they meet someone they fall for.


Amen




NINASHARP -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 6:58:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

SSC isnt a catch all term -  This situation isn't what it was meant for.
One mans sane and safe is another mans insanity and unsafe.
I actually find it quite appalling to use the term for this kind of thread because it just makes the term less effective elsewhere.  But thats my ppov.
 
 
Peace and Rapture



Ok.. I guess you missed the basic word of consent in my post, but since i am giving BDSM a "bad rap" and its not appropriate to post SSC in this thread, you most likely feel I shouldn't post a opinion anywhere here.  Forgive me for all I've been told through my 13 plus years of experience/ I see it all clearly now that you enlightened me with your own opinion(s).

Just copying one of the definitions from your link, which there are many listed, as it applies to each individually..

SAFE. That all parties to the activity have considered the potential risks involved, and have decided that the risk is ACCEPTABLE TO THEM.

SANE. That all parties are engaging in this activity by direct intention and can judge the effects of their actions.
 
CONSENSUAL. That all parties have consented to being involved in the activity. Consent might be given for every scene, or in more long-running relationships this consent might be given just once, at the beginning of the relationship, to cover all subsequent activity.

Notice the words All Paries?? Tell me how then when you are in one committed relationship  and you go behind that person's back to fulfill your own desires, how these definitions apply to that person who has no idea that they are being deceived?  Ohh Never mind. I won't post here, because the goddess of the boards think I might give the lifestyle a bad rap. Gawd forbid I do that, rather let those full of themselves and all the nonsense of others do it for me..

NINA




enigmabrat -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 7:00:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LeMis

Just my opinion, but nobody has the right to judge anyone else unless you have walked a mile in thier shoes.   Sounds like a lot of judgemental "opinions" and a few "judge, jury & executioner" posts here as well, lol.  
Not saying one person is right or wrong, but life isn't always black and white either.  To each their own.

Peace.



No but some things are clear cut right and wrong...
cheating is wrong no matter what the reason, your eather faithfull or you leave you dont go behind the others back and have another relationship




darkinshadows -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 7:22:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NINASHARP

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

SSC isnt a catch all term -  This situation isn't what it was meant for.
One mans sane and safe is another mans insanity and unsafe.
I actually find it quite appalling to use the term for this kind of thread because it just makes the term less effective elsewhere.  But thats my ppov.
 
 
Peace and Rapture



Ok.. I guess you missed the basic word of consent in my post, but since i am giving BDSM a "bad rap" and its not appropriate to post SSC in this thread, you most likely feel I shouldn't post a opinion anywhere here.  Forgive me for all I've been told through my 13 plus years of experience/ I see it all clearly now that you enlightened me with your own opinion(s).

Just copying one of the definitions from your link, which there are many listed, as it applies to each individually..

SAFE. That all parties to the activity have considered the potential risks involved, and have decided that the risk is ACCEPTABLE TO THEM.

SANE. That all parties are engaging in this activity by direct intention and can judge the effects of their actions.
 
CONSENSUAL. That all parties have consented to being involved in the activity. Consent might be given for every scene, or in more long-running relationships this consent might be given just once, at the beginning of the relationship, to cover all subsequent activity.

Notice the words All Paries?? Tell me how then when you are in one committed relationship  and you go behind that person's back to fulfill your own desires, how these definitions apply to that person who has no idea that they are being deceived?  Ohh Never mind. I won't post here, because the goddess of the boards think I might give the lifestyle a bad rap. Gawd forbid I do that, rather let those full of themselves and all the nonsense of others do it for me..

NINA

WoW - 13 years plus experience?  Well done!  Must mean you must know an awful lot.
ooo... and have I been elevated to goddess status now?(Actually, I am a Queen, but not to you - [:D])
Yes - it is my POV... never said you can't voice yours, doesn't mean you are right.  Doesn't mean I am to you either.  Isn't that great?
 
Seriously, name calling and showing off  IMO - (fuck these disclaimers[;)]) - really shows maturity.
(please note the sarcasm - yes really - my flawed humour is quite terrible isn't it - but then, I am a complete attention whore)
 
Now the serious stuff - (Feel free to avoid if you take this personally or are easily offended)
 
If someone disagrees with you, don't take it personally - just take it as a disagreement - not a personal attack - really, to me, you aren't that important.  If you cannot take someone disagreeing it is simple - don't post.
 
And still - SSC is not relevant to this situation IMO.  Its a misused term over and over and personally, I don;t use it simply because it has been so misused.  R.A.C.K is a much more encompassing term - for ME.
 
The OP wasn't really asking for whether what shes doing is right or wrong.  She was providing a service to people going through the same thing she is going through.  Of course she isnt naive enough to think people won't make judgements and I am sure the OP knew the outcome of posting that post.  But the thing is - with the irony of her last post it is obvious she doesn't care on the morals people are trying to heap upon her situation - and why would she?  Does her position need defending?  No.  Does it matter who thinks what is morally right or wrong?  No.  What matters is that there are people out there who aren't cheating for the sake of cheating (like meatcleaver posted) - that shit happens and people need support so they can take that final step or decision as to whether they move into BDSM or leave and just stay in a marriage.  Its not as clear as doing something just to get your rocks off and be hateful.  Sometimes, they are dearly in love with their partners, but one can't deny what one is sometimes and to get through that takes TIME.  And it is shown quite well on this forum and many others that many people don't give a shit and have no patience - people do not want to SPARE THE TIME... but time is all we have - its not your relationship, its not effecting you - butt out.  Voice your opinions by all means - say its wrong - say they are disgusting and horrid and degrading and non consensual... but end of the day - your opinion is worth nada - nil - zero - zilch.
 
Time and patience is beautiful.  And shes offering people who are in the same situation as her and outlet to talk through their problems and deal with their possible self loathing, that pain for feeling they have to cheat.  And then they can move on.  Why do people get councilling for these disgusting and perverted desires where they want to be beaten and call somone 'daddy'?   So they can move onto the next phase of their life... that next step.  This thread wasn't talking of serial cheating - but dealing with what they have suddenly found is what they are and crave and want and whether they accept it or deny it and walk away.
 
And theres no need to get personal or take personally if someone disagrees with you.  Just discuss it and move forward - granted that takes time and patience which again - people seem to lack or forget.
 
Peace and Rapture




sskitten -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 7:25:38 AM)


I have so much I'd like to say here.  But I started this thread without consulting my Dom, and now that I've told him, he has asked me to stop posting on it.

Before I go I must reiterate (for the fourth time in this thread) that in no way am I attempting to justify cheating.  I KNOW IT'S WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!  No news flash there.  I don't feel good about it and I weigh my options every day.  But this was not meant to be a thread about that.

As to Brosco's list, my husband would consider it cheating for me to have any online communication with another man about anything personal without my husband's knowledge.  Since that is where my husband draws the line, that is when it became cheating.
 
Thank you all for sharing.  I will read the thread but I can say no more.  My Dom can trust me in this much.   :)

Kitten




darkinshadows -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 7:28:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: enigmabrat

quote:

ORIGINAL: LeMis

Just my opinion, but nobody has the right to judge anyone else unless you have walked a mile in thier shoes.   Sounds like a lot of judgemental "opinions" and a few "judge, jury & executioner" posts here as well, lol.  
Not saying one person is right or wrong, but life isn't always black and white either.  To each their own.

Peace.



No but some things are clear cut right and wrong...
cheating is wrong no matter what the reason, your eather faithfull or you leave you dont go behind the others back and have another relationship

If things are clearly right or wrong - then please.
It is clearly wrong to keep posting and not use a spell checker - such a sin.
(Please - again - notice sarcasm - geez these fucking disclaimers)
[8|]
 
Peace and Rapture




darkinshadows -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 7:31:47 AM)

For what its worth kitten - I think what you are doing with the support group is awesome.
At least you have the patience and time to give others and that is a precious gift.
 
Peace and Rapture




twicehappy -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 7:34:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

quote:

Twicehappy

I have read all the previous post, some of which like so many have gotten to be here on cm are so politically correct i want to scream. I.E.; her pain and your pain are different, everybody has different values and that’s ok, nobody has the right to judge others, we have our reasons, etc.....on and on.

You really need to get off the PC crap - I don't apologise for saying that because you are making a complete mockery of what is PC(like it needs it already).
 
The fact is YOU are the one being PC.  Do you have any idea what being politically correct means?  You live in the USA... your fundamental politics dictates that marital affairs are cheating.  So saying that a cheater is always a cheater IS being politically correct.  It is an insidious flaw.  Deal with it.


Let us start with can you read and follow a timeline. At the beginning of the Politically Correct thread i started i wrote;

"As I read the threads here on Collarme I notice more and more those politically correct answers that have become the standard everywhere."

Here is the time/date display copied from top of that post;

"Is Political Correctness now affecting the bdsm community? - 6/9/2006 9:15:49 AM"

Here is the time/date display copied from top of post of mine you are quoting;

" two worlds of trust - 6/9/2006 8:06:30 AM"

So if you pay attention you will notice i posted to this thread prior to starting the PC thread. An intelligent person might then conclude that some of what i read on this thread is what prompted me to start the other one. 

As to my being PC by calling a cheater a cheater, no i was not. If i was being PC i would have written some drivel like this" i understand but do not agree with what you are doing but you do what you feel makes you happy". 

My politics have nothing to do with my statement; actually my political beliefs are something i have never discussed on these boards, so unless you are a mind reader you have no clue what my politics are.  

My moral and ethical standards prompt me to state that cheating is wrong, period.

You agree on the other thread that courtesy is a good thing yet you show a remarkable lack of it in your replies. Not in any of my replies will you find me being as obnoxious in my answers as you appear to take such delight in being in yours.

" SO the fuck what?  It isn't your job to decide what makes a dominant a dominant." 

So you wrote the above post  making a statement based on your perception of my political stance and effectively flaming me for stating once a cheater always a cheater then one post later you post this;

"Once a cheater - always a cheater.  Damn right that is true"

Ummm, feeling a little holier than thou today are we......................




KatyLied -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 7:47:09 AM)

quote:

WoW - 13 years plus experience?


I want to add a peeve I have about this.  Why do people think their years of experience will impress anyone?  It's like bragging.  It ain't pretty.  Your experience means NOTHING to me. 

Rant end.




NINASHARP -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 8:02:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

WoW - 13 years plus experience?


I want to add a peeve I have about this.  Why do people think their years of experience will impress anyone?  It's like bragging.  It ain't pretty.  Your experience means NOTHING to me. 

Rant end.



Hello KatyLied,
If it looks like I was bragging then look again.. In my reponse I was actually stating that SSC was pounded in my head during the last 13 years of exploring BDSM. Glad to have you and Dark take my statement of experience out of context here though and manipulate it in a way to sarcastically insult me. Kinda takes the light off the OP and start a flame with me.

BTW, since its ok that the goodess queen says I can respond if I like, maybe experience doesn't mean shit to you. That is fine by me, though when I am seeking answers to questions, it helps to know if the person giving me advice has RL experience and knows what the hell they are talking about. No the number of years doesn't mean I know everything, I state that clearly in my profile that I am not an expert on anything. 

.




juliaoceania -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 8:29:43 AM)

Ninasharp I understand your point

Anyone that goes outside their marriage, whether they are in this lifestyle or not, is exposing them to risks they did not ask for such as AIDS, herpes, hepititas, and other forms of curable sexually transmitted diseases. It is unfair to expose your partner to that. Of course someone might not have sex at all with a BDSM partner, but if they are having sex with the dom (even with a condom and prior testing) and having sex with the spouse, they are risking that spouse.

Herpes cannot be protected with by condom. Condoms are not 100%. Even if you get tested before you become intimate that test is only good on the day it was taken. You are in essense forcing your partner to have sex with someone without any knowledge and they do not get a vote in that. I do not care if you are vanilla, chocolate, or strawberry..... that is ethically wrong. It is not consensual.




KatyLied -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 8:31:16 AM)

quote:

Even if you get tested before you become intimate that test is only good on the day it was taken.


Actually it may not even be good on that day.  Depending on what you are testing for.  Some diseases take months before antibodies are built up and will show on a test.




NINASHARP -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 8:32:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

quote:

ORIGINAL: NINASHARP

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

SSC isnt a catch all term -  This situation isn't what it was meant for.
One mans sane and safe is another mans insanity and unsafe.
I actually find it quite appalling to use the term for this kind of thread because it just makes the term less effective elsewhere.  But thats my ppov.
 
 
Peace and Rapture



Ok.. I guess you missed the basic word of consent in my post, but since i am giving BDSM a "bad rap" and its not appropriate to post SSC in this thread, you most likely feel I shouldn't post a opinion anywhere here.  Forgive me for all I've been told through my 13 plus years of experience/ I see it all clearly now that you enlightened me with your own opinion(s).

Just copying one of the definitions from your link, which there are many listed, as it applies to each individually..

SAFE. That all parties to the activity have considered the potential risks involved, and have decided that the risk is ACCEPTABLE TO THEM.

SANE. That all parties are engaging in this activity by direct intention and can judge the effects of their actions.
 
CONSENSUAL. That all parties have consented to being involved in the activity. Consent might be given for every scene, or in more long-running relationships this consent might be given just once, at the beginning of the relationship, to cover all subsequent activity.

Notice the words All Paries?? Tell me how then when you are in one committed relationship  and you go behind that person's back to fulfill your own desires, how these definitions apply to that person who has no idea that they are being deceived?  Ohh Never mind. I won't post here, because the goddess of the boards think I might give the lifestyle a bad rap. Gawd forbid I do that, rather let those full of themselves and all the nonsense of others do it for me..

NINA

 
quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows
 
WoW - 13 years plus experience?  Well done!  Must mean you must know an awful lot.
ooo... and have I been elevated to goddess status now?(Actually, I am a Queen, but not to you - [:D])
Yes - it is my POV... never said you can't voice yours, doesn't mean you are right.  Doesn't mean I am to you either.  Isn't that great?
 
Yeah its a long time considering my age.  No I do not know an awful lot, but have seen a lot, and been through a lot along the way. . It was you that started the name calling, BTW.

 
quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

And yet another example of the misuse of the concept of SSC.... and people wonder why BDSM gets such a bad rap?
 
Peace and Rapture



Since I do take SSC as a Mistress and someone who is in this lifestyle 24/7, Giving BDSM a "bad rap" as you say I am doing.. those are fighting words to me.
 

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

Seriously, name calling and showing off  IMO - (fuck these disclaimers[;)]) - really shows maturity.
(please note the sarcasm - yes really - my flawed humour is quite terrible isn't it - but then, I am a complete attention whore)
 
Now the serious stuff - (Feel free to avoid if you take this personally or are easily offended)
 
If someone disagrees with you, don't take it personally - just take it as a disagreement - not a personal attack - really, to me, you aren't that important.  If you cannot take someone disagreeing it is simple - don't post


Where the hell did I once show off, by stating what was always something I was told during 13 years of experience? Geez I'd hate to address anyone about mudane scenes since I have done a hell of a lot r/t and needing some new ideas.. I'm pretty important to those who know me and care about me, but that isn't on here, so you are right, I'm as important as anyone else here. Including you.
 
BTW, Do not dare tell me how to respond to something that was directed to me.  I didn't make you goddess/ queen of the board, your statement shows that you're a self appointed one.
 
I don't claim to know everything, and you know what... I do have some experience in being married to a vanilla husband and after trying to convert him into the lifestyle, and then leaving him for my desires rather than going behind his back and cheating with my former Master. 




juliaoceania -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 8:33:17 AM)

deleted




KatyLied -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 8:33:34 AM)

Nina - if you are making a distinction between real life and on-line....I totally get that.  There are many giving advice and their only experience is internet chatrooms, and message boards, and fantasy (sigh).




KatyLied -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 8:34:53 AM)

quote:

My husband gave me a curable STD...


Julia - I'm sorry you had that experience.




champagnewishes -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 8:37:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

quote:

ORIGINAL: champagnewishes

Your latest post speaks volumns....so sad little girl that you found yourself in a grown up world.  Yeah, its cute....real cute.

Damn i feel sorry for the husband.


I understand the irony of her last post - why can't you?  In fact - you just upheld it.
 
Peace and Rapture



There is not a damn thing ironic about it....except the fact to whom i'm replying to....




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