RE: two worlds of trust (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion



Message

NINASHARP -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 8:39:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Ninasharp I understand your point

Anyone that goes outside their marriage, whether they are in this lifestyle or not, is exposing them to risks they did not ask for such as AIDS, herpes, hepititas, and other forms of curable sexually transmitted diseases. It is unfair to expose your partner to that. Of course someone might not have sex at all with a BDSM partner, but if they are having sex with the dom (even with a condom and prior testing) and having sex with the spouse, they are risking that spouse.

Herpes cannot be protected with by condom. Condoms are not 100%. Even if you get tested before you become intimate that test is only good on the day it was taken. You are in essense forcing your partner to have sex with someone without any knowledge and they do not get a vote in that. I do not care if you are vanilla, chocolate, or strawberry..... that is ethically wrong. It is not consensual.


Thank you Juliaoceania,

That was all I was trying to point out in my attempt to explain whether the two worlds of trust, was Safe and Consensual.

Nina



champagnewishes -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 8:43:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sskitten


I have so much I'd like to say here.  But I started this thread without consulting my Dom, and now that I've told him, he has asked me to stop posting on it.

Before I go I must reiterate (for the fourth time in this thread) that in no way am I attempting to justify cheating.  I KNOW IT'S WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!  No news flash there.  I don't feel good about it and I weigh my options every day.  But this was not meant to be a thread about that.

As to Brosco's list, my husband would consider it cheating for me to have any online communication with another man about anything personal without my husband's knowledge.  Since that is where my husband draws the line, that is when it became cheating.
 
Thank you all for sharing.  I will read the thread but I can say no more.  My Dom can trust me in this much.   :)

Kitten




Cheating AND going behind your Dom's back by posting after he said not to....i'll stop except to post again to explain why i'm not posting.......yeah your real trustworthy my dear.



darkinshadows -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 8:45:32 AM)

Geez... I say what I mean and try not to be politically correct and now THATS wrong.
Sheesh... I guess I should really be watching what I say - oh wait - thats being PC though - help... am I the only one confused by the double standard here?
Do so few people not see the irony in the PC vs non PC debate?
 
I am not really about timelines... time isn't relevant.  I do not care if you accept my thoughts or not.  But what I would hope for - and that doesn't always happen - is that is people go and learn exactly what they are speaking about.  Find out what being politically correct means before you make statements like *whipped doms - etcetcetc... and then bemoan about others being politically correct.
 
I will respond to this.
 
quote:

" SO the fuck what?  It isn't your job to decide what makes a dominant a dominant." 

So you wrote the above post  making a statement based on your perception of my political stance and effectively flaming me for stating once a cheater always a cheater then one post later you post this;

"Once a cheater - always a cheater.  Damn right that is true"

Ummm, feeling a little holier than thou today are we......................

 
The difference between the two statements... which wasnt a flame by the way - flames are attacks and trust me, that wasn't an attack - but thats YOUR perception Vs. mine.
 
I didn't assume your political allegance.  I was pointing out the irony of what you claim is people being politically correct, yet not really understanding (IMO) what PC actually is.
 
Now - me stating that Once a cheater always a cheater for one... I will say - you have just posted that statement of mine out of the context I wrote it so I suggest you go back and read what I said - if you want.  Freedom of choice.  Because, you have placed here completely out of context to suit your own means.  That wasnt me being holier than thou.  Thats me making a judgement - but one based not on personal belief but fact.
 
And yes it is a fair judgement because judgements are and should be based on documented facts(ie like a courtroom judge - or at least they should).  Now making a statement like.... *if a dom is whipped, means he isnt a dom* is an unfair judgement because its based not on fact just on your perception of the situation and not the situation itself - it is based on personal beliefs - and it is poor form to shift all your personal beliefs onto another person who doesn't want to believe in your beliefs... (oh fuck my poor grammar).
 
If you cheat - you will always be a cheater - fact.  It doesn't mean you will cheat again, but it doesn't change the fact either.
 
If you swim the atlantic, that makes you an atlantic swimmer - fact.  Doesn't mean you will ever again.
 
But people band around the phrase *once a cheater - always a cheater' like its some sort of disease, like its supposed to make people feel bad - like its nothing more than a red letter.
 
But its not a red letter - its just a fact.
 
Peace and Rapture



FloridaISIS -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 8:47:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reflectivesoul

quote:

ORIGINAL: BreakMeShakeMe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reflectivesoul


 
I couldnt agree more.... what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.....
 
<to the OP>
How could someone trust another when they are married and lieing to their spouse, do you not see or hold any honor to the vows you professed?  you are not doing your husband some kind of justice you're leaving him in a hopeless marriage with a woman that doesnt even have enough guts to tell him that she no longer wants him... how selfish of you....


RS,
I totally agree... during my faze of being "the other woman".... when he said he was leaving wife...I asked why.. he  said so we could marry....After I stopped laughing..I simply explained... and just who will be "the other" with me?....No thanks... we split up about 2 weeks after that....and have refused to "date" married men sense. But like I said... being how I HAVE..I can't flame one that does. And when it comes to the... my spouse doesn't know...understand.. etc... then I just tell them to go talk to them..and walk away completely.



I try my best to stay away from couples. marriages, anything of the like because I dont think I would be able to get over any kind of guilt if I split them up... the way I feel about it is if I am going to put my effort forth to be with you and you alone, you damn well be able to offer me the same in return.... besides that.... I'm greedy and I dont share well with others..... [:D] lol


RS, I read a couple of your posts here  and I agree.
More harm than good is done when one lies and hides things from their partner.  Throw in another person or more, and than there's the added risk of bringing home something one didn't bargain for. I can only imagine the scene that would come from explaining how the hell one contracted an STD.

Personally, I will never take on a married person, nor will I mess with any separated men.

Normally, I keep quiet when I disagree with  the OP or other posters, as not to appear the royal bitch and stir up a hornet's nest,  but this is  a situation I will never agree with.

And yes, that web gets bigger by the day.  Call me old school, but vows are vows, and if the partner isn't into D/s than some sort of agreement should be made whether it's to split, or for them to accept it and let the other do what they need to do to get their D/s fix.  One should never leave their partner in the dark.

Call me a Bitch, that's fine, but I take wedding vows seriously, and deception isn't a part of those vows.

Just my cheap .2 cents worth.



darkinshadows -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 9:06:35 AM)

Well - show me where I name called and what name I used.  I simply said that I disliked what I see when people use SSC - like you did in this situation.  You don't think you did, fine.  I didn't name call - I just spoke as I felt.
(How un PC of me?)
 
People are all different - you don't like that people disagree -  there isnt alot you can do about it.  You can't brow beat people into submission by calling people 'goddess' or trying to defend your actions.  13 years - so what?  As KatyLied said - your 13 years mean nothing to me.
 
Yes - you are important to people that know you - but you don't effect me personally.  If I am important to you - your choice, but doesn't mean I have to accept that.  Do you not see the swings and roundabouts here?
You say - I say - that could go on forever.
 
I can 'dare' to say anything I want.  Just as you can say I am wrong.  Thats the fantastic thing about freespeach and human rights.  That is what fucks up the PC police and I say all the better for it.  But thats my opinion and it would be a pretty sad state of affairs that people have to feel they have to say - 'disclaimer - PPOV' - everytime they made a statement in case it 'offended' someone or they took it as a personal attack.
 
I think your use of SSC in this case wasn't true to the originality of SSC.  Thats my decision.  If you think thats name calling, or attacking just because I disagree with you and make one simple sentance - then there is obviously more of an issue here for you.
 
You want to turn this into a I said you said argument or pissing contest - fine - take it through the other side and I will continue.  But I am not destroying or being part of peoples conspiricy to destroy a good and positive thread just because of their own moral and personal issues.
 
I don't hate you.  I don't dislike you.  I don't even know you.  Your not that important to me.
We disagree - it is that simple.
 
Peace and Rapture



darkinshadows -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 9:13:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: champagnewishes

quote:

ORIGINAL: sskitten


I have so much I'd like to say here.  But I started this thread without consulting my Dom, and now that I've told him, he has asked me to stop posting on it.

Before I go I must reiterate (for the fourth time in this thread) that in no way am I attempting to justify cheating.  I KNOW IT'S WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!  No news flash there.  I don't feel good about it and I weigh my options every day.  But this was not meant to be a thread about that.

As to Brosco's list, my husband would consider it cheating for me to have any online communication with another man about anything personal without my husband's knowledge.  Since that is where my husband draws the line, that is when it became cheating.
 
Thank you all for sharing.  I will read the thread but I can say no more.  My Dom can trust me in this much.   :)

Kitten




Cheating AND going behind your Dom's back by posting after he said not to....i'll stop except to post again to explain why i'm not posting.......yeah your real trustworthy my dear.

Have to say - that was harsh and nasty.
(PPOV - not a personal attack/flame/judgement/PC etc all disclaimers here[8|])
You have no idea what her dominant said to her - she is only informing people why she isnt reposting on this thread.  Thats hardly going behind his back.  Mind you - if she hadnt posted she wasn't going to post, she would have been accused of 'cheating and then running away and not brave enough to respond to the critics' by someone - so either way she would have 'lost'[;)]
 
Now where was that post in general on witch-hunts....
 
Peace and Rapture



Proprietrix -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 10:19:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sskitten

Psssssttt, Kitten, they haven't attacked for the past few hours!  Maybe it's safe to come out of hiding.........  Somehow I don't dare say another word to *them* but since most of them think you're pretty good at talking out of two sides of your mouth, why don't we just have a little chat, you and me? the one of us in each world, you know?
 
- Sure, Kitten, sounds good to me!
 
<snip>


They have medications for this.



marieToo -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 10:33:05 AM)

Reply to the OP

DISCLAIMER:  Everything heres is based upon my opinion, and my interpretations.  I state nothing as facts of anyone's life.

SSkitten:

I understand your feelings as explained in your OP.  You are in a very tough position, or at least you *think* you are.  I have been in your position and its no picnic to feel like you are between a rock and a hard place; and certainly all the *do-gooders* who would rather toot their own holier-than-thou horns, are not helping you.  They most likely have skeletons of betrayal and lies in their own closets that they are trying to purge by tearing into you. 

I can tell you from experience that what you see as an impossible situation really is not.  You can change the course of your life and believe it or not, it wont kill hubby and it wont kill the kids, and it wont kill you financially.  You probably would have found another partner even if the Ds were not a part of it.  I could be wrong, I dont know.  But usually in long term marriages when this happens, it is the result of a loss of passion, or the two people growing apart and changing.  Sure, when we take those vows, we think we will be in love forever, then 20 years later you realize that things have shifted and you've adjusted accordingly and lowered your standards of what happiness should be.  You now have obligations together ie.. family ties, mortgages, children  etc. And you feel obligated to stay, obligated to his happiness.  Please do not take on all of the responsibility for the break down of your marriage.  Often times we feel the way we feel because we werent getting what we needed from our spouse.  It usually takes two people to contribute to the disintegration of the relationship.  You're not a monster. People dont cheat because they are bad people, they cheat because they are unfulfilled and they perceive themselves to be trapped in the marriage......

This is not to say that its a good situation to stay in.  Eventually he will probably find out...either from you confessing, or by you slipping up.  It will be a whole lot messier that way.  All Im saying is that there really *is* light at the end of the tunnel, you really *can* tell him how you feel and there really *is* life after divorce.  Chances are he isnt nearly as happy as you may think.  If you're not happy with him, he most likely is getting that feeling.  I know it seems like an impossible feat, but you really can make a decision to change your life.  You will be free to do as you please with complete comfort and not having to look over your shoulder, and he (your husband) will be free to move on and find someone who can love him the way we all deserve to be loved.  I have been through exactly what you are going through right now.  Im divorced now, not with anyone, but free to pursue anything/anyone I want....free from the burden of having to fake it every day.  Thats a hell of a weight to carry.  I had no idea how heavy it was, until I cut myself free from it.  What youre doing is going to consume you alive.  Please think about that.  If you want to talk, please fell free to email me, if you are allowed to do so.  

Regards,
marie.



marieToo -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 11:06:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sharainks

The OP doesn't seem to realize that there are still conservative judges who would grant a non cheating spouse custody of the children over granting it to the cheater.  If hubby finds out and gets vindictive you could wind up without the very thing that you say keeps you in the marriage. 

Eventually those who cheat get found out.  Are you willing to deal with the repercussions when it happens?


Not to be rude. But this is complete misinformation.  Adultery is not in any way shape or form going to lose someone custody of their children.  In fact, it is rare that a judge will ever even make such a decision in a divorce case. Most often if there is a custody battle, shared custody will be settled on. 

SSKitten:  Speak to an attorney .  Do not be scared to pursue a divorce. You will not lose your children because of an affair. 



sharainks -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 11:51:20 AM)

Not to be rude but yes there are still places where your kids can get taken from you for how you conduct yourself.  My state is one, the state to the north is as well.  Especially if your involvement in the lifestyle becomes known. If you aren't living in a Bible Belt state full of conservatives maybe you would get shared custody but that doesn't generalize to every state and every judge.  If anyone thinks a hurt ex won't press that point I wish you the best of luck.

I had a sub friend, vanilla husband, who suddenly decided that she had "forced" him to be her dom and that she was sick and unfit.  He played the "only trying to keep my marriage together by trying to make her happy" card.  Children's services swooped in while dad was supposedly at work, got the kid, delivered him to daddy who had suddenly moved in with mom and pop.  Guess what?  In court her interest in the lifestyle came to light, and judgie said "I'm concerned about what the child may be exposed to if in the mother's custody."  "Mom will have supervised visitation at the ex-inlaws house twice monthly." 

It can happen.  I've seen it happen. I've seen it happen to subs two different times.  Different sets of circumstances.  Please don't delude yourself into thinking that with a narrow minded judge, "concerned" social workers etc, that it can't happen to you, it can.



champagnewishes -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 11:55:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

Have to say - that was harsh and nasty.
(PPOV - not a personal attack/flame/judgement/PC etc all disclaimers here[8|])
 
You have no idea what her dominant said to her -
 
Actually i do....and no personal attack taken [:D]



marieToo -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 12:11:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sharainks

Not to be rude but yes there are still places where your kids can get taken from you for how you conduct yourself.  My state is one, the state to the north is as well.  Especially if your involvement in the lifestyle becomes known. If you aren't living in a Bible Belt state full of conservatives maybe you would get shared custody but that doesn't generalize to every state and every judge.  If anyone thinks a hurt ex won't press that point I wish you the best of luck.

I had a sub friend, vanilla husband, who suddenly decided that she had "forced" him to be her dom and that she was sick and unfit.  He played the "only trying to keep my marriage together by trying to make her happy" card.  Children's services swooped in while dad was supposedly at work, got the kid, delivered him to daddy who had suddenly moved in with mom and pop.  Guess what?  In court her interest in the lifestyle came to light, and judgie said "I'm concerned about what the child may be exposed to if in the mother's custody."  "Mom will have supervised visitation at the ex-inlaws house twice monthly." 

It can happen.  I've seen it happen. I've seen it happen to subs two different times.  Different sets of circumstances.  Please don't delude yourself into thinking that with a narrow minded judge, "concerned" social workers etc, that it can't happen to you, it can.


Shairanks:

Are you saying that this friend of yours not only lost custody of her children, but is required to see them only under 'supervision' because the judge found out she was into ds?
There were no other factors?  Abuse of some sort?  Doing something in front of the kids?  Endangerment for some other reasons?? 
Ive never heard of anyone anywhere in anystate losing their kids because of Ds, per se.
If anyone has any cases sited on this, I would love to hear about them.  I find it rather interesting.



agirl -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 12:12:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:


ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
All the talk of honesty, fidelity and trust in D/s lifestyle is a load of crap. People are people and have been since Adam and Eve. If they are not satisfied in one relationship the pressure will be on to seek a better relationship or even if they aren't looking, to cheat if they meet someone they fall for.


Amen


He's got a corner in my *outlook* book too.



darkinshadows -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 12:28:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:


ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
All the talk of honesty, fidelity and trust in D/s lifestyle is a load of crap. People are people and have been since Adam and Eve. If they are not satisfied in one relationship the pressure will be on to seek a better relationship or even if they aren't looking, to cheat if they meet someone they fall for.


Amen


He's got a corner in my *outlook* book too.


Agrees.  Do you think we should start a meatcleaver appreciation club?



agirl -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 12:46:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:


ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
All the talk of honesty, fidelity and trust in D/s lifestyle is a load of crap. People are people and have been since Adam and Eve. If they are not satisfied in one relationship the pressure will be on to seek a better relationship or even if they aren't looking, to cheat if they meet someone they fall for.


Amen


He's got a corner in my *outlook* book too.


Agrees.  Do you think we should start a meatcleaver appreciation club?



LOL........... I know I'm not going to achieve a *state of perfection* any time soon...and as long as I am aware of that, I'll be aware of how I'm viewing other's imperfections/fuck-ups/situations. Any comments I've made are not actually regarding the OP, as I know ziltch about her.

I don't care if it's viewed as *wishy-washy* . I really don't think I'm qualified personally to point my finger at anyone.

agirl








darkinshadows -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 1:25:14 PM)

wow.  And you call Kitten a cheat and going behind her dominants back (which basically is calling her a liar - lets not be PC about this hey).
 
I've spoken with Kitten offlist, because I was going to apologise to you - cause thats the kinda person I am and if I got something wrong I am not embaressed to hold my hands up -  However,  you and I both know that she was not disrespecting or violating her dom's trust by posting a short sign-off message - and you have the audacity to sit there and type 'actually I do'?  Lets get this straight. You didn't know what was said - you only know after you posted that remark because someone put you straight.  Fact.  So please spare me and everyone else here, false information.
 
*gets of soapbox*  ok a liar is a liar - misleading information is exactly the same, just less overt -  but know whats worse?  Double fucking standards - and knowing it.(IMO of course)
 
Now THATS a flame.
and on that - I am done.
 
Peace and Rapture



Dustyn -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 1:48:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: sharainks

The OP doesn't seem to realize that there are still conservative judges who would grant a non cheating spouse custody of the children over granting it to the cheater.  If hubby finds out and gets vindictive you could wind up without the very thing that you say keeps you in the marriage. 

Eventually those who cheat get found out.  Are you willing to deal with the repercussions when it happens?


Not to be rude. But this is complete misinformation.  Adultery is not in any way shape or form going to lose someone custody of their children.  In fact, it is rare that a judge will ever even make such a decision in a divorce case. Most often if there is a custody battle, shared custody will be settled on. 

SSKitten:  Speak to an attorney .  Do not be scared to pursue a divorce. You will not lose your children because of an affair. 


Depending on the state, oh yes you can... read up on divorce laws...



marieToo -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 2:18:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: sharainks

The OP doesn't seem to realize that there are still conservative judges who would grant a non cheating spouse custody of the children over granting it to the cheater.  If hubby finds out and gets vindictive you could wind up without the very thing that you say keeps you in the marriage. 

Eventually those who cheat get found out.  Are you willing to deal with the repercussions when it happens?


Not to be rude. But this is complete misinformation.  Adultery is not in any way shape or form going to lose someone custody of their children.  In fact, it is rare that a judge will ever even make such a decision in a divorce case. Most often if there is a custody battle, shared custody will be settled on. 

SSKitten:  Speak to an attorney .  Do not be scared to pursue a divorce. You will not lose your children because of an affair. 


Depending on the state, oh yes you can... read up on divorce laws...



I guess now our op will be scared to pursue a divorce. 



enigmabrat -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 2:53:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sskitten


I have so much I'd like to say here.  But I started this thread without consulting my Dom, and now that I've told him, he has asked me to stop posting on it.

Before I go I must reiterate (for the fourth time in this thread) that in no way am I attempting to justify cheating.  I KNOW IT'S WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!  No news flash there.  I don't feel good about it and I weigh my options every day.  But this was not meant to be a thread about that.

As to Brosco's list, my husband would consider it cheating for me to have any online communication with another man about anything personal without my husband's knowledge.  Since that is where my husband draws the line, that is when it became cheating.
 
Thank you all for sharing.  I will read the thread but I can say no more.  My Dom can trust me in this much.   :)

Kitten



::rolls her eyes::

Oh wow what a good little sub you are!!

and honestly you have to wonder about a Dom that will take on a married sub knowing she is cheating on her husband to me that makes him not Dom and just as guilty in this as her

they deserve eachother
I just feel bad for her husband!!!



sharainks -> RE: two worlds of trust (6/10/2006 3:04:09 PM)

Yes MarieToo,  this woman that I knew in real life lived exactly what I said.  There were no other factors.  She was a wonderful and loving mother and this devastated her.  What happened in their case had the whole bdsm group in that area running scared.  Her husband was very vindictive and called witnesses as to her involvement.  What I never could figure out was how he managed it.  For all I ever saw he was just as into as she was.  His claims were that her "perverted" interests ruined their marriage and that she was an unfit mother. 

I also know another sub who lost total custody for over a year, visitation only when allowed by her husband and for only a partial day.  No overnights with them, and if I remember right a 5 hour limit on her time alone with them.

The thing we tend to forget is that images of bondage, floggings, pain, drum up thoughts about serial killers and murder in many vanilla's minds.  They can't imagine how a stable well adjusted person could involve themselves with such things. 

I remain thankful that my interest in this came after my divorce not before. During the separation period I found out he was capable of things that 20 years of married life had not shown me he was capable of doing.  I found the old saying about not truly knowing someone until you were married wasn't true.  You really know someone when you divorce them.



Page: <<   < prev  5 6 [7] 8 9   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875