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ORIGINAL: littlewonder

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I still hold the same opinion. Labels are inevitable, some fit, some don't. If it does, go with it, it doesn't cause any harm.

It can though when two people into a relationship can't come to a clear agreement on the definitions. One usually builds up a fantasy in their head of a sub/slave/dom/etc...even though the other continues to say "that's not me and my definition". Then the person comes back and says "you're not a dom/sub/slave!!!" And then the relationship ends because the fantasy ends.

Unfortunately this happens more often than not from my experience.

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ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain

*hands Lp some vanilla ice cream and some fuzzy socks*

I think people label themselves in the hopes of belonging. I think they are afraid that if they don't find a place to belong within a group that it means they don't belong anywhere. Personally I have never really cared for the labels that go along with this "lifestyle" or any other. The only thing I have ever wanted to be is myself and I don't see why others don't want to be themselves as well. I will just continue to believe people do almost everything out of fear of something that most likely isn't real to begin with.

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ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

Just be yourself? Most people don't have a clue who or what they are, they live by society's idea of what they should be.

Being yourself requires work in terms of self reflection. It requires going into the darkness and being very unsure of your step until you find a path that seems to suit you. It requires picking many paths that might prove false, or appear to meander when you just want to get the job done.

The modern human being is not given to a great deal of self reflection. Which is why now that being kinky is the new trendy thing, so many have decided they are dom or sub w/o having a jack asses' idea of what that is.

It takes a different kind of person to spend the actual time to self reflect, to explore, to allow themselves to meander down the path with no preconceived notion of where they are going and when they will get there.

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ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

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ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

Just be yourself? Most people don't have a clue who or what they are, they live by society's idea of what they should be.

Being yourself requires work in terms of self reflection. It requires going into the darkness and being very unsure of your step until you find a path that seems to suit you. It requires picking many paths that might prove false, or appear to meander when you just want to get the job done.

The modern human being is not given to a great deal of self reflection. Which is why now that being kinky is the new trendy thing, so many have decided they are dom or sub w/o having a jack asses' idea of what that is.

It takes a different kind of person to spend the actual time to self reflect, to explore, to allow themselves to meander down the path with no preconceived notion of where they are going and when they will get there.

I completely relate to this, Chatte. Years ago I didnt have a clue who I was. I only knew I didn't think much of myself so I figured others didn't think much of me, either. That, coupled with being rather submissive and very co-dependent, had me trying to do or be whatever it took, to be accepted. So I found "BDSM" and M/s and I discovered some consensus of what a slave is and since I was already submissive with men in my life, I tried to be what I thought the definition of slave was. I let a label define me, which I do not recommend.

The result was finding myself so very far away from where I should have been, only I didn't know that until my life took a different path.

So it was through a LOT of hardship, therapy, experiences, experiments, travels, journeling, reading, talking, being coupled, being single, having a good job, having no job...and so on...that I did discover who I was. I had to look at all aspects of me and come to accept what they were, then discard what didn't work for me anymore and incorporate new philosophies that did.

So yeah, in the beginning I was probably one of those people who Lady Pact is talking about. The result of having no confidence and no real self identity was a lot of pain. The result of all that pain was to figure myself out so I could find happiness with who I really am. I realized I could very easily turn into a bitter, old, unhappy woman, and I did not want that for myself. I also changed my general statement of "What ELSE can go wrong?" to "I am open to the possibility of goodness." The latter worked out much better for me.

So yes, I learned who I am but until I learned who I am, the statement "Be yourself" did nothing for me. Because I was a lie - a lie to myself. I didn't know me, so I made me up and actually believed me for awhile. I've since done a lot of "pulse checks" to ensure I'm not making myself up anymore.

When I was single, I made the best of my life - with amazing friends, my amazing family, and yes, my amazing self lol. And I decided nothing but nothing was going to detract me from being "me" ever again. I wouldn't have a relationship with someone who did not accept the "me" I had become.

This is where I take issue with Jeff's statement that loving me for myself is lazy and narcissistic. He might think so, and if that works for him, well coolio. But for me? Well when I say "me" I mean the core of me - what makes me tick. What moves me and what drives me. Life philosophies. Spiritual beliefs. I'm not talking about habits or the way I might do X, Y or Z. I'm talking about what I spent blood, sweat and tears creating in myself. I might evolve as we go forward, but that's different than changing my core for someone else. The Mister happened to totally fall in love with who I am, and regularly encourages me to be that woman.

Running off into the sunset? Hardly. We still work at our happiness. We still fight off my old ghosts. Love is still conditional. But he loves my core, and if he didn't, I wouldn't have continued down this path with him, nor would he have bothered. I found happiness being single, so I didn't feel like I was missing anything. Anyway, we're going to walk toward that sunset. Together. Going off course now and again. Breaking down barriers in the way now and again. Flying joyfully now and again. Coming across anything your average loving relationship comes across. But we'll do so being our authentic and evolving selves. And we'll do so as long as we can both be happy and healthy as our authentic selves together. We both hope and believe that's going to be lifelong.

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ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Ok, now you're just going all gourmet on me lol. I just want carrots dammit! Just plain ole pull it out of the ground carrots!

If I wanted to get all technical then I might wanna join LadyPact's leather community.

Sorry LadyPact, just joking lol.

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ORIGINAL: xssve

Huh, "whatever you wish" works for me.

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ORIGINAL: littlewonder

But without labeling that long dangly orange thing as a carrot you might end up with a bag of round red things called tomatoes.
Now if you want the baby type or organic type of carrot then you would qualify that in front of the word "carrot" to identify it even more correctly...but it's still a carrot with a defined, set and concise meaning that is the same to everyone. No matter where you go, people will know that orange thing is called a carrot because it's been passed down throughout our society of humans as an identifier so that we're not all confused.

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

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ORIGINAL: littlewonder

But without labeling that long dangly orange thing as a carrot you might end up with a bag of round red things called tomatoes.
Now if you want the baby type or organic type of carrot then you would qualify that in front of the word "carrot" to identify it even more correctly...but it's still a carrot with a defined, set and concise meaning that is the same to everyone. No matter where you go, people will know that orange thing is called a carrot because it's been passed down throughout our society of humans as an identifier so that we're not all confused.

Very true. Unfortunately human beings are a helluva lot more complex than carrots.

And I am not against labels for human beings. It is a great starting point. The problem lies in the mindset that the labels are also the entirety of individuals.