Has this ever occurred to you? (Full Version)

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LadyPact -> Has this ever occurred to you? (7/19/2012 8:36:06 AM)

Semi-rant, semi-helpful.

There's a few of these out there just now. Threads created by people that I get the vibe that they feel like they have to "be" something. They have to be a Dom, or a sub, or even a switch. Almost like being their genuine vanilla self just isn't good enough for some reason. It almost seems like they are lost and confused.

This thread isn't an attack. I just want to ask you for a favor. You don't even have to answer Me. Just answer yourself.

Why? Why do you feel that you are not ok the way you are as a vanilla person and feel you have to be something else?

For as much as we give advice around here that it's ok to be kinky, the reverse is also true. It really is ok not to be a Dom, or a sub, or some crap that Fifty Shades of Grey told you that you had to be.

We'll still talk to you as you are trying to find your way.

Just be yourself. We're still here.

Too many of us kinky folks have tried to fit into other people's boxes. Don't do that. It kind of sucks.

No discussion. No question. Just thoughts from the desk of Lady Pact.




angelikaJ -> RE: Has this ever occurred to you? (7/19/2012 8:40:46 AM)

The problem with labels is that very often they say very little about the person they are being applied to.
At best, they are a snapshot or one of these theme tags we see everywhere online now.

I think though many people seek them out because they want to fit in; need to belong, and they worry about being excluded if they are too much this or not enough that.

For them, it is so hard to just let go and BE.



Rochsub2009 -> RE: Has this ever occurred to you? (7/19/2012 8:46:49 AM)

That's pretty much what I said in the thread that I think prompted your post.

Some people need to learn that it's okay to be vanilla, even if their partner is kinky.



Char2688 -> RE: Has this ever occurred to you? (7/19/2012 8:50:13 AM)

I think the root cause is people not comfortable with themselves, or worse, they do not like themselves.
This brings out other behavior I find objectionable
People who don't like themsevlves tend to jump on others with high and mighty judgements.
When they find themselves on what they consider the right side of an issue, they are adamant the other person is wrong.

Your assessment is correct
The reason they cannot be themselves is they don't have self confidence



JanahX -> RE: Has this ever occurred to you? (7/19/2012 8:51:01 AM)

The way I look at it or even better yet - Ive said it, is that you can claim youre the Queen/King of England -that doesnt make it so.
If you want to aspire to be something, aspire to do it for YOURSELF - not for someone else.



OsideGirl -> RE: Has this ever occurred to you? (7/19/2012 8:52:12 AM)

Exactly. I'm also going to add that shouldn't have to change yourself to be someone that you're not, just to be with someone. It's not fair to either of you.



LaTigresse -> RE: Has this ever occurred to you? (7/19/2012 9:42:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

The way I look at it or even better yet - Ive said it, is that you can claim youre the Queen/King of England -that doesnt make it so.
If you want to aspire to be something, aspire to do it for YOURSELF - not for someone else.


Exactly.

The way I see it, I don't really care what most other people see........either when they look in the mirror or when they look at me. I know ME. It hasn't been an easy road to get to that point. However, regardless of what other people see, it's not changing who I am.

So what I am not the ideal dominant woman for 99.99999% of the population. I am not interested in being in a relationship with 99.99999999999999999999% of the population. So........it's alllllllll good!



ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Has this ever occurred to you? (7/19/2012 9:47:01 AM)

Using FR:

These days, it's become hip to be kinky. Like, ten years ago (or more) it was hip to be gay.

Unfortunately, all these hip kinky people have learned about BDSM from porn, cheesy internet chatrooms, and the like. They don't have a clue from a real time point of view of actual non-fantasy relationships.

So there is a huge disconnect in viewpoint, interpretation, and communication. I see the Cm forum as one place where a bridge can be built, but I agree, it's uphill work some days.




JeffBC -> RE: Has this ever occurred to you? (7/19/2012 9:48:24 AM)

OK, I agree with your entire post LadyPact. But I don't think it's quite as simplistic as simply saying "be yourself". Humans are a highly social species. Despite how in vogue it is in American culture to "be yourself" the real truth is that no man is an island. All of us feel some need to find some niche in whatever we identify as our pack. I strongly suspect that's hardwired into us at a very, very low level.

So speaking for myself, when I first wandered into this new and unfamiliar culture, I grasped for what sign posts I could find. When I found my own footing the sign posts became less important.



GreedyTop -> RE: Has this ever occurred to you? (7/19/2012 9:53:31 AM)

Jeff, maybe I am just tired, but I am finding a serious disconnect between what I feel that LadyP is saying and your post.

ETA: you say you agree with her entire post, and (in my admittedly) sleepy brain, I see you discounting what she is saying.





JeffBC -> RE: Has this ever occurred to you? (7/19/2012 10:29:06 AM)

I think I'm agreeing with where she'd like to go but I'm disagreeing with the idea that one can simply state an intention like that and have it be human reality. So agreeing on one level... with the sentiment... and disagreeing with the actual fact.

It really is ok not to be a Dom, or a sub, or some crap that Fifty Shades of Grey told you that you had to be.
In the larger society, that is of course true. But when one wanders into a chess convention people tend to evaluate you on your chess abilities. As I noted above, most people are sensitive to pack order and evaluation and whether they are an insider or an outsider. So while it may be OK in the larger context, I'd say that only a pretty damned dominant personality could pull it off in the specific. You have to be very confident in yourself to say "Yup, I don't measure up to the yardsticks you [collectively] value and I'm cool with that." That's sure as hell been a delicate balancing act for me anyway and I have the MASSIVE benefit of having already won at the mating/courtship game. I can't imagine how hard it'd be without that but I have sympathy for the folks in that position.

Just be yourself. We're still here.
Again, I'm not a huge fan in the reality of this statement. All cultures I've ever seen had some expectations. If you were "yourself" enough that you failed to meet those expectations then you were ostracized. To the best of my knowledge that's how humans work and BDSM humans aren't some exception to the rule. There are aspects of my relationship with Carol that I don't discuss here or don't discuss in any depth. You can't go tipping the sacred cows and expect people to be fine with it. So while "be yourself" is always good advice, it's also worthwhile to remember that the parts of yourself that you show to the pack will determine the interaction you have with that pack -- do they rub up against you or seek to rip your throat out?




DesFIP -> RE: Has this ever occurred to you? (7/19/2012 10:33:00 AM)

And it's also okay to just want to top and bottom on occasion. You don't have to sub or dom. It's okay to want to spank and tease one week and then not again for months. Just be who you are and make sure your partner or prospective partner is compatible.



LaTigresse -> RE: Has this ever occurred to you? (7/19/2012 10:56:00 AM)

The thing that you may not realize yet Jeff is that there are a whole lot of people running about out here that don't fit any of the set categories that most packs want to fit them into. They can either waste a lot of time and energy running around, trying to find a pack that will accept them, or they can just accept themself and get on with living their life. Not really caring about packs, or the boxes created by the packs.

Now, I may be wrong, but that is what I see you yourself have done. Yet I do often see posts from you, that are still trying to define and fit, usually a square peg into a round hole.

It doesn't matter whether I see you as a dominant person, a leader, or whatever it is you feel you are. What matters is whether you see it and Carol sees it. The rest is rather irrelevant.

In other words.....I see you wanting to 'fit into the Pact Pack' by agreeing, but yet you are maintaining that there are enough 'buts' that you are disagreeing.



JanahX -> RE: Has this ever occurred to you? (7/19/2012 11:01:02 AM)

You know whats funny - is that the "Just be yourself" - statement, makes me smile.
I had a birthday the other day, and I had a bunch of people I know wish me happy birthday on my facebook page. There was one person who wrote on my wall - "just be you - we like you that way" - and it meant more to me than anything anyone else had written.

Not sure why - but it did.



needlesandpins -> RE: Has this ever occurred to you? (7/19/2012 11:04:56 AM)

fr

life would be so much easier if people stopped demanding that other people lable themselves in such a way as they deem correct. all this about 'you can say you are so-and-so, but it doesn't mean you are' is an out of context statement when it come to what we say we are here. there will always be the deluded claiming to be a unicorn (as someone put it in another thread), and obviously they are not. however, when it comes to wistwd, who the hell are any of us to tell someone else that their definition of the applied lable is wrong, just because it doesn't fit our own thinking of what the word means?

in a sector of people whom are supposed to be liberal, and open minded i find alot are anything but. there arn't words to perfectly discribe everything that we are as a person, especially when it comes to tick boxes on a website. i'm all for being yourself, but ffs there are some people that just won't accept what they are told because it doesn't fit their idea of what they think you are.

my playmate, and i identify as switch if asked to tick a box, or lable ourselves for someone else's benefit. however, we are so much more than that. we are neither one thing or another, and yet we are everything all at the same time. how the hell do you stick a lable on that that suits everyone else? you just can't. there are many words we use as a group of people that actually are not correct at all. slave is one of them. no-one on this site is a slave in the true sence of the word as everyone is a free person to do exactly as they wish. true slaves were not about relationships. they were a means to an end for getting stuff done that the owner deemed below themself. not a single person on this site is that. we use the word daddy....just how many people on here are actually fucking their actual daddy? here's a biggy......RAPE. oh sure, it happens for real, and it's truely horrendous, and yet how many people here say they want to be raped? but only in a concenting way eh?

so it's not the lable we apply to ourselves that is important, it's other people respecting what we choose to put behind that lable that is important. we all have the right to think as we like, apply our own deffinitions to lables, and such. however, if you think that you are right, expect others to repect what you choose to lable yourself, and the meaning behind it, then do the same for others. no one person is right. we are all right, and all wrong depending on whom we are talking to at any one moment.

someone new trying something out may lable themselves as they wish, and change it as they explore things further finding what suits best. we are all vanilla with a twist.

needles



TNDommeK -> RE: Has this ever occurred to you? (7/19/2012 11:11:04 AM)

I'm not sure if this was said because I didn't read the responses, but I think it is the need to want to fit into something. People like to belong (some people anyway) and so they will take what ever label to do so. But I agree, being you is the best label to have.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Has this ever occurred to you? (7/19/2012 11:12:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

You know whats funny - is that the "Just be yourself" - statement, makes me smile.
I had a birthday the other day, and I had a bunch of people I know wish me happy birthday on my facebook page. There was one person who wrote on my wall - "just be you - we like you that way" - and it meant more to me than anything anyone else had written.

Not sure why - but it did.


How did I miss this? HAPPY UNBIRTHDAYYYYY



doctorgrey -> RE: Has this ever occurred to you? (7/19/2012 11:14:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

my playmate, and i identify as switch if asked to tick a box, or lable ourselves for someone else's benefit. however, we are so much more than that. we are neither one thing or another, and yet we are everything all at the same time. how the hell do you stick a lable on that that suits everyone else? you just can't.

needles


Here Here!

DrG



IrishMist -> RE: Has this ever occurred to you? (7/19/2012 11:20:49 AM)

Actually Jeff; it really is very easy and simple to 'be yourself'.

Look at me...I am a masochistic, ass kicking, life/death edge walker, non-submissive with slave like mentality in the right circumstances.

How's that for not fitting in a box?
And yet, I find it very easy to 'be myself'.

Personally, I think it all comes down to confidence in yourself. If you are confident, and can accept WHO you are without complaint; then it's very easy to be yourself outside the box.
If you lack that confidence; then you have no business trying to crawl into the box.



JeffBC -> RE: Has this ever occurred to you? (7/19/2012 11:21:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
In other words.....I see you wanting to 'fit into the Pact Pack' by agreeing, but yet you are maintaining that there are enough 'buts' that you are disagreeing.

*laughs* Yup, I could see it that way too. It's certainly true that the 'Pact Pack' is a respectable one in my eyes. I have to admit that maybe I'm a bit fuzzy in the head too but honestly my opinion is that she's representing one side of the equation... and I side I strongly favor... but there is also the other side to be considered and I also favor nuance and balance. It's certainly true that had someone posted "You should find a BDMS label then conform to it" I'd have taken the opposite tack.. which is kind of what LP did here.

Insofar as folks who are so outside any norms that they gave up on the rest of humanity lock, stock and barrel... you're right. That's outside my ken. I'm sure it exists and I'm also sure it doesn't exist nearly as much as people seem to think it does.



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