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RE: Has this ever occurred to you? - 7/20/2012 7:35:20 AM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
This is where I take issue with Jeff's statement that loving me for myself is lazy and narcissistic. He might think so, and if that works for him, well coolio.

And you probably should take issue. In reading your post carefully I see the better answer.

Some amount of authenticity and self is required for health. You had insufficient amounts and so brought badness to yourself and the relationship. Accordingly, you'd be thinking of these things as "good" because you needed more of them. You had someone who did not love you for yourself. For Carol and I things were different. From the very first moment I loved who I was seeing over the patio table. In that context "he should love me for who I am" becomes an already established fact and the game becomes, "I need to make myself more perfect for my partner" -- eg: I need to change.

In other words, every relationship needs to drive to the right balance, for it of "self" and "selflessness".

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 101

RE: Has this ever occurred to you? - 7/20/2012 8:21:47 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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In that context "he should love me for who I am" becomes an already established fact and the game becomes, "I need to make myself more perfect for my partner" -- eg: I need to change.

Jeff. I think there is a really fuzzy line where some people are seeing one thing and others are seeing something entirely different.

It can be seen in at least three different ways.

"If he/she loves me, they will love me exactly as I am, warts and all, no matter what dumbassery I do!"

OR

"I want him/her to love me, so I am going to make myself what they want."

OR

"He/she loves me for who I am, I want to be the best me I can be for them AND me."

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 102

RE: Has this ever occurred to you? - 7/20/2012 8:36:08 AM

NuevaVida

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Chatte and LaT, thank you.

I was reading the dialogue about carrots, and I see both points. However, sure if someone goes to a grocery store and asks for carrots, they're going to be pointed to the place in the produce section where the narrow orange things that come out of the ground are.

But...if you were talking to a group of chefs, in a forum about food, you can bet if someone mentions carrots, the question will be asked of what kind? Just like in a BDSM-M/s-D/s forum, if you say slave, it's a basic starting point but you'll be asked to clarify "what kind" so to speak. Slave, in BDSM, just like Carrot, in the gourmet world, is a starting point - an umbrella under which a myriad of varieties fall. To go to a gourmet forum and decide that ALL carrots MUST fit criteria XYZ or it's not really a carrot? You'd probably be labeled as naive in the gourmet world. But to say "I want to prepare XYZ for my guests and I need carrots", you'd probably see a lot of questions to clarify the nature of your dinner party, what is being served with it, and what type of flavor will best suit your needs.

Just like here, regarding slavery.

When I first started talking to the Mister and it was clear there was an interest between us, we had several conversations about what M/s looked like and how we viewed what a master is and what a slave is. And while we shared similarities in our views, there were differences, too. So we discussed the differences, to understand where each other was coming from. But I didn't care whether or not I was a slave or that I had a master. I didn't care what label would be placed on who I would become to him. I did care about whether or not we were compatible together, and if we'd bring out the best in each other, and if we would each add value and joy to each others lives. He didn't care about the labels either, only that we created a relationship that worked best for us, by our own standards. I refer to myself as "slave" here in these forums because it's probably the closest term that defines what I am to him, but I'm not married to the word; it's not all that important to me. I say I'm enslaved to him but I rarely say I'm his slave. If someone sees "slave" and decides there is only one meaning and no variation of the word, well that's on them - they will misunderstand me.

That's what's cool about conversation - you talk, you clarify, you gain understanding, and hopefully you get some insight out of it.

Jeff: I totally agree with finding the right balance. For me, the concept of changing for my partner is a difficult one, because of my own history. In fact, it is terrifying to me. It was a gut-wrenching, soul-searching, fucking difficult, incredibly liberating process to discover and create myself - so I'm ridiculously protective of that. Tweaking idiosyncrasies? You bet I can and will do that. But those big ticket items that give me that sinking feeling in my gut? All those caution signs come out and I look very carefully at what it means to me and the work I've done, to go forward there. And it's not without careful consideration and lots of conversation that I'd move forward there with him. In fact, one of those big ticket items temporarily broke us up at the beginning of this year, until we could figure out what was more important - his desire, my need to dig my heels in the sand, or how we'd be able to continue enjoying the love we have for each other while altering the path so it wouldn't destroy who we are and what we have. Yep - balance.

Dang I'm getting wordy here, but this is a topic close to home.

One last thought, and this is what I often see when terminology and definitions are bandied about. And it's what used to trip me up in the past, and what I see "newbies" come in with questions about. Things like "A slave wouldn't do/say/be______(insert scenario here)." That's where people start living according to labels and not according to their authentic selves. A slave wouldn't disagree with her master. A slave wouldn't get mad at her master. A slave wouldn't cry over this or that. A slave wouldn't sing in the shower. A slave wouldn't state what her needs are... A slave wouldn't....insert whatever seemingly legitimate or seemingly ridiculous verb at the end of the sentence. Next thing I knew, I was going through the checklist and eliminating/adding all "appropriate" expectations. I was now confined in a definition box, and farther and farther from the person I needed to be.

So I climbed out of that box and instead said, "NuevaVida (well, I actually used my real name, haha) does/doesn't do....blah blah blah." And if you're a dude who's interested in NuevaVida, this is what you're going to get, overall. And if that doesn't suit you, please move along, because NuevaVida is not going to reshape herself to live by your definition. She'll make adjustments and compromises that enhance the relationship because it will bring us both joy, but she's not going to step away from herself again to make someone else happy."

So when people come into the forums, as LadyPact referenced, thinking they have to BE a certain way or a certain thing, to be accepted, I think they're like I once was - unsure of self, finding their way, and thinking if they don't live by a certain definition, then they don't have a "place" so to speak. That's how I was. And I caught a lot of crap for it, and I also got a lot of amazing insight - depending on who was replying to me. I also got some very hurtful emails because of it. So now, what's more interesting to me is how people reply to those type of posts, rather than the posts themselves.

OK I'll stop now lol.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 103

RE: Has this ever occurred to you? - 7/20/2012 8:37:24 AM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

"He/she loves me for who I am, I want to be the best me I can be for them AND me."

This is how I see it, and you said in one sentence what I said in a fucking novel LOL!

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 104

RE: Has this ever occurred to you? - 7/20/2012 9:48:37 AM

SoulAlloy

Posts: 2106
Joined: 8/23/2009
From: Preston, UK
Status: offline

Interesting thoughts

Why do I feel not ok being vanilla? Because I'm not vanilla, a part of me is certainly, but equally a part of me is sub, another smaller part of me is switch.

All different parts making up the whole, like my name, an alloy.

_____________________________

"Better to be a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without" - Confucius

"It'll be alright in the end - if it isn't alright, it's not the end." - unknown

Kinky crossdressing Whovian

Host of the Preston (UK) Munch, 2nd Wednesday each month

(in reply to JeffBC)

Post #: 105

RE: Has this ever occurred to you? - 7/20/2012 11:57:33 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoulAlloy

Interesting thoughts

Why do I feel not ok being vanilla? Because I'm not vanilla, a part of me is certainly, but equally a part of me is sub, another smaller part of me is switch.

All different parts making up the whole, like my name, an alloy.

Which makes perfect sense. Where I was going with this thread is folks labeling themselves because it is linked to some kind of ulterior motive, rather than what they feel is their authentic self.

Lots of kinky folks try to conform to vanilla because they feel like they have to be "normal". I'm noticing quite often that the reverse is also true. Vanilla folks that feel that they have to label themselves as D or s for reasons other than actually feeling that they are a D or s.

I think many of us are familiar with the stereotype that a person labels themselves Dominant because they believe it's easier to get laid that way. We see it pretty often around here. Recently, there have been various ulterior motives leading folks to want to be kinky because they think it's going to fix something, make them more appealing, or whatever it is that they feel that their vanilla self wasn't good enough to fulfill.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to SoulAlloy)

Post #: 106

RE: Has this ever occurred to you? - 7/20/2012 3:07:03 PM

sheisreeds

Posts: 578
Joined: 7/8/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
So speaking for myself, when I first wandered into this new and unfamiliar culture, I grasped for what sign posts I could find. When I found my own footing the sign posts became less important.

Also, I remember being extremely excited that there were signposts out there that spoke to who I was. I felt less ashamed, and felt like I made sense somewhere. One of the most reassuring moments in my life was when my best friend defined masochism and sadism to me when I was 12. A huge thing I was feeling and experiencing finally had a name.

There have also been periods throughout my kinky life where I have spent some time researching and seeing how I fit into different boxes. This was a difficult period but it definitely went a long way to helping me figure me out. I think a lot of people go through this with kink, and in other areas of life and it can be a healthy experience. Especially when it is within similar shades of grey. The submissive masochist hat, and the sadomasochist switch hat are pretty close, and I needed to have different experiences to figure out which fit better.

Also over time we change, and where we fit in the world changes. In my teens and early twenties I was WAY more submissive than I am now. When I got back into kink after trying to force myself in the vanilla box, it was a process figuring out if I was the same. Turned out a lot of my labels were different. Nineteen year old me would have shit herself to know she'd go on to be a sadist javascript:void(AddText('

')) 26 year old me wasn't sure, and some experiencing and trying different things on allowed me to figure that piece of me out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

But without labeling that long dangly orange thing as a carrot you might end up with a bag of round red things called tomatoes.
Now if you want the baby type or organic type of carrot then you would qualify that in front of the word "carrot" to identify it even more correctly...but it's still a carrot with a defined, set and concise meaning that is the same to everyone. No matter where you go, people will know that orange thing is called a carrot because it's been passed down throughout our society of humans as an identifier so that we're not all confused.

Absolutely!

We are also individuals that are made up of tons of nouns, adjectives, and therein labels. Unfortunately sadists aren't orange and crunchy, and masochists aren't round and red. We need to use language to define who we are. Unlike the supermarket where I can look for the bin of round red things and know I'm walking towards the tomatoes :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I've seen this go on for years and years and I'm pretty sure the reason is that the person feels as if they don't believe they fit in anywhere else due to they are social misfits, their looks, not being accepted anywhere else and then they see or hear people say that bdsm accepts anyone or that bdsm folks aren't picky and that it's easy and free to find someone who will fuck you or have a relationship with you despite what that person considers the reason why they are not accepted in the "vanilla" world.

It's been mentioned elsewhere in the thread, though over the past few years kink has become excessively cool. I've known married couples that will flat out say they are vanilla who leech onto the kink community because "they like the people". Really they like the crazy parties. Really they like to live vicariously through other people's experiences and have stories to shock their vanilla friends. Some kink groups are SUPER accepting and have very busy social calendars.

I think my favorite "kink" party was all but four people crammed into the one room of the dungeon without a lot of equipment watching their favorite SCI-Fi show the ENTIRE time, and the handful of us having full run of the equipment for hours and hours. It was amazing to me because each one of them spent $20 to get into this space, and not use any of it for it's original intention. Not to mention they could have held this at a private home for free! That experience spoke so many volumes to me, I'm not even going to begin dissecting it, and I think it speaks for itself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Which makes perfect sense. Where I was going with this thread is folks labeling themselves because it is linked to some kind of ulterior motive, rather than what they feel is their authentic self.

It's true, so true. I also find it sad and pathetic as none of these people are going to have a chance at being happy until they are being who they are and looking in the right places for people who meet their needs. I also find it really sad when people feel that they are not enough, and that they have to keep trying to find different ways to define themselves. I have watched people pass key times in their life by this way. By the time you're getting into your thirties you can be a bit screwed without a foundation of not just what you have in your life, but with who you are and where you are going.

quote:

I think many of us are familiar with the stereotype that a person labels themselves Dominant because they believe it's easier to get laid that way. We see it pretty often around here. Recently, there have been various ulterior motives leading folks to want to be kinky because they think it's going to fix something, make them more appealing, or whatever it is that they feel that their vanilla self wasn't good enough to fulfill.

Kink/Fetish/BDSM are becoming the new goth. Seriously, I'm a bit goth (well probably a lot but too bitter to admit it), and just over the past couple of years we've watched the goth clubs start to slide into being a watered down kink land again. This was the way of it in the late nineties, and it is happening again. There is also a lot of kink influence happening outside of the BDSM groups and goth clubs.

It's hip, it's a little taboo, but not too taboo to not be cool. It's a way too look edgy and awesome in front of your friends.

In my observation a lot of these folks have always been outcasts on some level, but often the kind that never stood out. They were the kind of nerdy/geeky table in the high school cafeteria, that weren't nerdy enough for the jocks to bother with.

People who very much want to be noticed for something that they do.

People who have never felt "cool".

In terms of individual relationships I think more individuals are coming out of the kinky closet, and then there are the scenarios we have been seeing on CM where one partner is trying to become the BDSM dream of the other. This is a good trend that unfortunately has some growing pains attached.

Queer folk are starting to discover themselves, and come out sooner and sooner.

The same is happening for kinky people, we're just a few years behind.

So there is a trend of people waking up to their kinky desires while in a vanilla relationship, and feeling empowered enough and that it's socially acceptable enough to want to be able to have and experience these things. BDSM is now more recognized as being a need that has a right to be fulfilled, versus a desire that needs to be suppressed. This is a HUGE cultural shift.

_____________________________

~ s.

Oh my darling, give me reason
give me something to believe in

You need a spankin' baby!

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 107

RE: Has this ever occurred to you? - 7/20/2012 3:44:22 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

"He/she loves me for who I am, I want to be the best me I can be for them AND me."

This is how I see it, and you said in one sentence what I said in a fucking novel LOL!

I agree with both of you, and although I like succinct (as in LaT's sentence) your 'novel' was beautifully written and explained it thoroughly---BRAVA!

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 108

RE: Has this ever occurred to you? - 7/20/2012 7:24:12 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

I completely relate to this, Chatte. Years ago I didnt have a clue who I was. I only knew I didn't think much of myself so I figured others didn't think much of me, either. That, coupled with being rather submissive and very co-dependent, had me trying to do or be whatever it took, to be accepted. So I found "BDSM" and M/s and I discovered some consensus of what a slave is and since I was already submissive with men in my life, I tried to be what I thought the definition of slave was. I let a label define me, which I do not recommend.

The result was finding myself so very far away from where I should have been, only I didn't know that until my life took a different path.

So it was through a LOT of hardship, therapy, experiences, experiments, travels, journeling, reading, talking, being coupled, being single, having a good job, having no job...and so on...that I did discover who I was. I had to look at all aspects of me and come to accept what they were, then discard what didn't work for me anymore and incorporate new philosophies that did.

So yeah, in the beginning I was probably one of those people who Lady Pact is talking about. The result of having no confidence and no real self identity was a lot of pain. The result of all that pain was to figure myself out so I could find happiness with who I really am. I realized I could very easily turn into a bitter, old, unhappy woman, and I did not want that for myself. I also changed my general statement of "What ELSE can go wrong?" to "I am open to the possibility of goodness." The latter worked out much better for me.

So yes, I learned who I am but until I learned who I am, the statement "Be yourself" did nothing for me. Because I was a lie - a lie to myself. I didn't know me, so I made me up and actually believed me for awhile. I've since done a lot of "pulse checks" to ensure I'm not making myself up anymore.

When I was single, I made the best of my life - with amazing friends, my amazing family, and yes, my amazing self lol. And I decided nothing but nothing was going to detract me from being "me" ever again. I wouldn't have a relationship with someone who did not accept the "me" I had become.

This is where I take issue with Jeff's statement that loving me for myself is lazy and narcissistic. He might think so, and if that works for him, well coolio. But for me? Well when I say "me" I mean the core of me - what makes me tick. What moves me and what drives me. Life philosophies. Spiritual beliefs. I'm not talking about habits or the way I might do X, Y or Z. I'm talking about what I spent blood, sweat and tears creating in myself. I might evolve as we go forward, but that's different than changing my core for someone else. The Mister happened to totally fall in love with who I am, and regularly encourages me to be that woman.

Running off into the sunset? Hardly. We still work at our happiness. We still fight off my old ghosts. Love is still conditional. But he loves my core, and if he didn't, I wouldn't have continued down this path with him, nor would he have bothered. I found happiness being single, so I didn't feel like I was missing anything. Anyway, we're going to walk toward that sunset. Together. Going off course now and again. Breaking down barriers in the way now and again. Flying joyfully now and again. Coming across anything your average loving relationship comes across. But we'll do so being our authentic and evolving selves. And we'll do so as long as we can both be happy and healthy as our authentic selves together. We both hope and believe that's going to be lifelong.

You know... I read this and I am struck with... Fuck this women is HOT!!!

Self-Aware women are just fucking HOT to me!!!! Regardless if they are Dominant or Submissive! They Hot!

As a note... self-awareness to me is more a journey than it is a destination. But it seems the longer one is on that journey the just seem to be more self-aware and that HOT scale is goes up with it.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 109

RE: Has this ever occurred to you? - 7/20/2012 8:32:04 PM

chiaThePet

Posts: 2694
Joined: 2/4/2007
Status: offline

It occurred to me that I get an intense pleasure from pleasing.

It occurred to me that this pleasure led me down many paths.

It occurred to me that some paths were fulfilling, some not.

It occurred to me that others on these paths labeled me a sub.

It occurred to me that sometimes the shoe fit, sometimes not.

It occurred to me that when it didn't I grew some fifty feet tall.

It occurred to me when this happened, the Barnum and Bailey
tent I used as a loin cloth barely contained my big ass balls.

It occurred to me as that occurred, I was still under the Big Top.

chia* (the pet)

_____________________________

Love is a many splendid sting.

You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 110

RE: Has this ever occurred to you? - 7/20/2012 10:30:58 PM

Kana

Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline

Chortles

The only label I've ever given much of a fuck about was "Mine."

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to chiaThePet)

Post #: 111

RE: Has this ever occurred to you? - 7/20/2012 10:58:45 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

Can't argue with that one.

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to Kana)

Post #: 112

RE: Has this ever occurred to you? - 7/21/2012 1:49:18 AM

Faythless

Posts: 41
Joined: 1/31/2012
Status: offline

I haven't been around long so I have no idea where I 'fit' but I keep hearing about this '50 Shades of Grey' and my friends keep mentioning how they think it would be 'great to try', at which point I usually fall silent and wait for them to say how great/awful it was. But then you ask what they did and invariably there was a blindfold and a bit of light spanking involved, which is great for them but makes me realise that my friends would never understand what I do when I meet/chat to people like this. The reason for my nonensical ramble is that books like this come along every now and then and tries to get people to believe they can become something other than what they are not discounting that they may like a little kink but the extent they try to stretch may be too much for them.
Reading through some of the prevoius replies have definitely given me a lot to think about.

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 113

RE: Has this ever occurred to you? - 7/21/2012 10:10:07 AM

DesiresFury

Posts: 28
Joined: 7/14/2012
Status: offline

Everybody wants to be different nowadays. Nobody wants to be mainstream.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 114

RE: Has this ever occurred to you? - 7/21/2012 10:30:10 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

As I get older, constantly spending time observing people, I muse........exactly what the fuck IS mainstream?????

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to DesiresFury)

Post #: 115

RE: Has this ever occurred to you? - 7/21/2012 10:55:22 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

As I get older, constantly spending time observing people, I muse........exactly what the fuck IS mainstream?????

I would have to think you would know a bit of that, LaT. It's that shit that somebody else wants you to be, rather than who you really are as time goes on.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 116

RE: Has this ever occurred to you? - 7/21/2012 11:07:22 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

As I get older, constantly spending time observing people, I muse........exactly what the fuck IS mainstream?????

I would have to think you would know a bit of that, LaT. It's that shit that somebody else wants you to be, rather than who you really are as time goes on.

Ya, I get that. But what I've discovered is that, when you scratch the surface of most people, no one actually seems to really be.....mainstream.

Just a lot of closet freaks and weirdos running around pretending to be their version of it.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 7/21/2012 11:08:06 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 117

RE: Has this ever occurred to you? - 7/21/2012 11:35:52 AM

needlesandpins

Posts: 3901
Status: offline

maybe LaT that is what is really going on. we all try to be vanilla because it's what most of us are taught we should be. therefore we hide the real us until we meet others that allow us to grow in the direction we want to. as that experimentation takes place, and we find what suits us best we lable ourselves differently according to the people we are around.

anyone who spends any amount of time around me is going to know i'm not like everyone else, even if they can't put their finger on what it is. to alot of people i'm going to apear very vanilla because of the situation we are in.

i know i am still the same person that i was 4 years ago, but i'm seeing a different person who allows me to be everything instead of part. i'm not really sure what it would be classed as, but back then i would have labled myself Domme rather than switch simply to protect myself. i loved my partner, and trusted him, but i couldn't give all of myself to him in the sixteen years we were together. in retrospect i know it's because i couldn't trust him with it.....my submission. i wasn't lying to myself because i knew totally what i wanted. i was protecting myself from what i thought he may take advantage of. with my playmate it's different for both of us. we are both exploring a side of ourselves that we both knew was there, but hadn't dared, or had the chance to explore before.

i know that for alot of people their applied lable won't change, but i guess for some it always will depending on the person they are with.

needles

_____________________________

I deserved better. Not than you, but from you.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 118

RE: Has this ever occurred to you? - 7/21/2012 12:50:07 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

they feel like they have to "be" something

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QsNXd57Ppw

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 119

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