RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives?

RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? (Full Version)

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Real0ne -> RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? (7/27/2012 12:54:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam There was apparently noone carrying in the theater because there were signs prohibiting firearms and those who have carry permits tend to be law abiding and respect the property and wishes of property owners. Which negates the OP that gun laws wouldnt have prevented this tradegy from happening. Absolutely correct. Somewhere in these threads on the tragedy, I mentioned that property owners have the right to exclude things they don't wish to have on their property. The theater was apparently clearly marked as a place where weapons are unwelcome. Property rights come before the privelege of carrying and this is one area where I feel the NRA is trying to go too far. There really is no way to defend yourself from an intelligent (yeah, I know his professors called him a dolt but he has a degree in neurobiology FFS) lone wolf psychopath. well there you have it. then he should have honored the proprietors wishes and used bombs instead. I guess he could have used Molotov cocktails then Muse would be pushing for a fuel ban. Lets ban somehting! Sort of makes gun control in this case a moot point and insanity front and center.

jlf1961 -> RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? (7/27/2012 1:23:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie fr SALT LAKE CITY (ABC 4 News) - A citizen with a gun stopped a knife wielding man as he began stabbing people Thursday evening at the downtown Salt Lake City Smith's store. Police say the suspect purchased a knife inside the store and then turned it into a weapon. Smith's employee Dorothy Espinoza says, "He pulled it out and stood outside the Smiths in the foyer. And just started stabbing people and yelling you killed my people. You killed my people." Espinoza says, the knife wielding man seriously injured two people. "There is blood all over. One got stabbed in the stomach and got stabbed in the head and held his hands and got stabbed all over the arms." Then, before the suspect could find another victim - a citizen with a gun stopped the madness. "A guy pulled gun on him and told him to drop his weapon or he would shoot him. So, he dropped his weapon and the people from Smith's grabbed him." By the time officers arrived the suspect had been subdued by employees and shoppers. Police had high praise for gun carrying man who ended the hysteria. Lt. Brian Purvis said, "This was a volatile situation that could have gotten worse. We can only assume from what we saw it could have gotten worse. He was definitely in the right place at the right time." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18921492 At least 12 people have been killed and 59 wounded in a shooting at a midnight cinema showing of the new Batman film near Denver, Colorado just to remind you How many did Timothy McVeigh kill WITHOUT a firearm?

Rule -> RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? (7/27/2012 4:16:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam There was apparently noone carrying in the theater because there were signs prohibiting firearms and those who have carry permits tend to be law abiding and respect the property and wishes of property owners. Who are the property owners and when did they put up those signs?

Real0ne -> RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? (7/27/2012 6:04:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam There was apparently noone carrying in the theater because there were signs prohibiting firearms and those who have carry permits tend to be law abiding and respect the property and wishes of property owners. Who are the property owners and when did they put up those signs? there are no property owners in the US. there are only fee holders as trustees that are charged with insuring th e lawns stay mowed and that the building stays in good repair and the taxes get paid and the taxes get paid and the taxes get paid and the taxes get paid and the taxes get paid and the taxes get paid and the taxes get paid and the taxes get paid and the taxes get paid and the taxes get paid ~Emit Domane

Yachtie -> RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? (7/27/2012 6:16:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam There was apparently noone carrying in the theater because there were signs prohibiting firearms and those who have carry permits tend to be law abiding and respect the property and wishes of property owners. Who are the property owners and when did they put up those signs? Yeah. Really! Probably after. That'll show dem criminals. Take that!

Real0ne -> RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? (7/27/2012 6:46:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 quote: ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie fr SALT LAKE CITY (ABC 4 News) - A citizen with a gun stopped a knife wielding man as he began stabbing people Thursday evening at the downtown Salt Lake City Smith's store. Police say the suspect purchased a knife inside the store and then turned it into a weapon. Smith's employee Dorothy Espinoza says, "He pulled it out and stood outside the Smiths in the foyer. And just started stabbing people and yelling you killed my people. You killed my people." Espinoza says, the knife wielding man seriously injured two people. "There is blood all over. One got stabbed in the stomach and got stabbed in the head and held his hands and got stabbed all over the arms." Then, before the suspect could find another victim - a citizen with a gun stopped the madness. "A guy pulled gun on him and told him to drop his weapon or he would shoot him. So, he dropped his weapon and the people from Smith's grabbed him." By the time officers arrived the suspect had been subdued by employees and shoppers. Police had high praise for gun carrying man who ended the hysteria. Lt. Brian Purvis said, "This was a volatile situation that could have gotten worse. We can only assume from what we saw it could have gotten worse. He was definitely in the right place at the right time." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18921492 At least 12 people have been killed and 59 wounded in a shooting at a midnight cinema showing of the new Batman film near Denver, Colorado just to remind you How many did Timothy McVeigh kill WITHOUT a firearm? doubtful he killed anyone at all. fertilizer bombs are fairly lame. at least compared to the 4 in the inside of the building. Surely you researched it enough to know the building was blown from the inside out and there is a long list of witnesses who heard several bombs go of. Maybe TM planted the bombs inside that they took to "sandia labs" huh? sandia labs, Hmmmmm [image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/stuff/Hmmmmmm.jpg[/image]

jlf1961 -> RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? (7/27/2012 6:48:16 PM)
Christ on a crutch, I cant go to most places with a concealed handgun because of the signs posted. Doesnt bother me, I lock the damn thing in my vehicle.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? (7/27/2012 8:10:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam There was apparently noone carrying in the theater because there were signs prohibiting firearms and those who have carry permits tend to be law abiding and respect the property and wishes of property owners. Who are the property owners and when did they put up those signs? As for exactly who the owners are, who gives a fuck? According to several of the articles, there were signs outside the theater precluding weapons on premesis. A tenant has the same rights of exclusion as the owner so whether the owner of the theater owned or leasted the property, they had the right of exclusion.

Rule -> RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? (7/27/2012 8:38:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam As for exactly who the owners are, who gives a fuck? Umm, I do? It would not be the first time that a property owner (or tenant, or someone he hired to do something on his property) either directly or indirectly has something to do with one or more murders on or in his property. For example, it might turn out that he is a good friend or relative of one of Holden's professors. If such facts of identity are not known, it becomes impossible to see patterns and relations. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam According to several of the articles, there were signs outside the theater precluding weapons on premesis. A tenant has the same rights of exclusion as the owner so whether the owner of the theater owned or leasted the property, they had the right of exclusion. But when were those signs put up? Why were they put up? Was that eighty years ago, or was that say one month before Holden went on his killing spree? Without such facts my paranoia gnaws hungrily. And who are involved in the police investigation into the event. If there is a cover-up one of those must must be involved.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? (7/27/2012 10:10:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam As for exactly who the owners are, who gives a fuck? Umm, I do? It would not be the first time that a property owner (or tenant, or someone he hired to do something on his property) either directly or indirectly has something to do with one or more murders on or in his property. For example, it might turn out that he is a good friend or relative of one of Holden's professors. If such facts of identity are not known, it becomes impossible to see patterns and relations. quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam According to several of the articles, there were signs outside the theater precluding weapons on premesis. A tenant has the same rights of exclusion as the owner so whether the owner of the theater owned or leasted the property, they had the right of exclusion. But when were those signs put up? Why were they put up? Was that eighty years ago, or was that say one month before Holden went on his killing spree? Without such facts my paranoia gnaws hungrily. And who are involved in the police investigation into the event. If there is a cover-up one of those must must be involved. In other words, you're gonna be one of the tinfoil hat brigade. Im only surprised you're not asking whether the guy who placed the sign was curcumcised.[sm=abducted.gif]

Musicmystery -> RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? (7/27/2012 10:32:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie fr SALT LAKE CITY (ABC 4 News) - A citizen with a gun stopped a knife wielding man as he began stabbing people Thursday evening at the downtown Salt Lake City Smith's store. Police say the suspect purchased a knife inside the store and then turned it into a weapon. Smith's employee Dorothy Espinoza says, "He pulled it out and stood outside the Smiths in the foyer. And just started stabbing people and yelling you killed my people. You killed my people." Espinoza says, the knife wielding man seriously injured two people. "There is blood all over. One got stabbed in the stomach and got stabbed in the head and held his hands and got stabbed all over the arms." Then, before the suspect could find another victim - a citizen with a gun stopped the madness. "A guy pulled gun on him and told him to drop his weapon or he would shoot him. So, he dropped his weapon and the people from Smith's grabbed him." By the time officers arrived the suspect had been subdued by employees and shoppers. Police had high praise for gun carrying man who ended the hysteria. Lt. Brian Purvis said, "This was a volatile situation that could have gotten worse. We can only assume from what we saw it could have gotten worse. He was definitely in the right place at the right time." And without firing a shot. Nice to see a non-Rambo.

Musicmystery -> RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? (7/27/2012 10:35:09 PM)
quote: a few years ago, a guy killed 10 people and injured 63 more by driving his Buick through a Farmer's Market. Of course, we regulate cars and car operation. How about guns? "OH NO!!!! Regulation!!! How long before they take all the cars??????"

Rule -> RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? (7/27/2012 11:15:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam In other words, you're gonna be one of the tinfoil hat brigade. I am interested in various facts. Why do you deride that? quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam I'm only surprised you're not asking whether the guy who placed the sign was circumcised. That you are surprised is unfortunate. It may help if you take a multi-vitamin pill once a week? If not, consult with your physician. Whether or not the person who placed the sign is circumcised in my opinion is not relevant. One must not confuse generalizations with specifics. Hm, all things considered re your psychological profile as determined by me, I recommend that you change your avatar.

Thaz -> RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? (7/27/2012 11:36:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery And without firing a shot. Nice to see a non-Rambo. I'm impressed. I wonder if the gun-holder had some sort of law enforcement background or training? Hah. A bit of googling shows this story has been rather mis-reported....it happened back in April but various sloppy journalists have been linking to this old story as current news. Still Kudos to the gun owner for not just resorting to lethal force.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? (7/28/2012 4:47:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thaz quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery And without firing a shot. Nice to see a non-Rambo. I'm impressed. I wonder if the gun-holder had some sort of law enforcement background or training? Hah. A bit of googling shows this story has been rather mis-reported....it happened back in April but various sloppy journalists have been linking to this old story as current news. Still Kudos to the gun owner for not just resorting to lethal force. It happens a lot more often than those in the media would have you believe. If there is no blood, it isn't newsworthy. I have personally been in the same situation. Criminals present, gun pointed, criminals eyes get big and they leave. Noone hurt and it doesnt make the news.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? (7/28/2012 4:49:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam In other words, you're gonna be one of the tinfoil hat brigade. I am interested in various facts. Why do you deride that? quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam I'm only surprised you're not asking whether the guy who placed the sign was circumcised. That you are surprised is unfortunate. It may help if you take a multi-vitamin pill once a week? If not, consult with your physician. Whether or not the person who placed the sign is circumcised in my opinion is not relevant. One must not confuse generalizations with specifics. Hm, all things considered re your psychological profile as determined by me, I recommend that you change your avatar. If you think I'm crazy, I must consider the source and assume I'm totally stable and healthy.[:D]

Real0ne -> RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? (7/28/2012 6:46:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam There was apparently noone carrying in the theater because there were signs prohibiting firearms and those who have carry permits tend to be law abiding and respect the property and wishes of property owners. Who are the property owners and when did they put up those signs? As for exactly who the owners are, who gives a fuck? According to several of the articles, there were signs outside the theater precluding weapons on premesis. A tenant has the same rights of exclusion as the owner so whether the owner of the theater owned or leasted the property, they had the right of exclusion. No they cant exclude the owner, because the owner has higher title to the property. You cant exclude the state because the state has higher title. All they need do is get a few of their buddies to agree that they can trespass. Try telling LEOs that they cant have guns on your property. LOLOL The state has YOUR Rights and you have theirs. The question for you is how did they get the power to do that. hint, first clue: (see muse post above)

Real0ne -> RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? (7/28/2012 6:50:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thaz quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery And without firing a shot. Nice to see a non-Rambo. I'm impressed. I wonder if the gun-holder had some sort of law enforcement background or training? Hah. A bit of googling shows this story has been rather mis-reported....it happened back in April but various sloppy journalists have been linking to this old story as current news. Still Kudos to the gun owner for not just resorting to lethal force. No police training in america is shoot first and make damn sure they are dead then ask questions. I posted at least 10 videos of nonthreatening situations where police wasted people. (just because they can) Need to fear them way more than the general public.

RacerJim -> RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? (7/28/2012 6:56:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie fr SALT LAKE CITY (ABC 4 News) - A citizen with a gun stopped a knife wielding man as he began stabbing people Thursday evening at the downtown Salt Lake City Smith's store. Police say the suspect purchased a knife inside the store and then turned it into a weapon. Smith's employee Dorothy Espinoza says, "He pulled it out and stood outside the Smiths in the foyer. And just started stabbing people and yelling you killed my people. You killed my people." Espinoza says, the knife wielding man seriously injured two people. "There is blood all over. One got stabbed in the stomach and got stabbed in the head and held his hands and got stabbed all over the arms." Then, before the suspect could find another victim - a citizen with a gun stopped the madness. "A guy pulled gun on him and told him to drop his weapon or he would shoot him. So, he dropped his weapon and the people from Smith's grabbed him." By the time officers arrived the suspect had been subdued by employees and shoppers. Police had high praise for gun carrying man who ended the hysteria. Lt. Brian Purvis said, "This was a volatile situation that could have gotten worse. We can only assume from what we saw it could have gotten worse. He was definitely in the right place at the right time." And without firing a shot. Nice to see a non-Rambo. What you really see is a smart criminal. Had he not dropped his knife at least one shot would have been fired.

jlf1961 -> RE: Gun Control Saving or Costing Lives? (7/28/2012 9:51:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: a few years ago, a guy killed 10 people and injured 63 more by driving his Buick through a Farmer's Market. Of course, we regulate cars and car operation. How about guns? "OH NO!!!! Regulation!!! How long before they take all the cars??????" I repeat my previous question, how many people did Timothy McVeigh kill without a gun?

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