RE: Submission is a gift!!!???

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Rapture^ -> RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? (6/14/2006 4:02:38 PM)
"I think he's saying that unless he gets to set all the rules then it isn't submission, and therefore only a 100% no-limits submissive is a true submissive worthy of serving a "Real" dom like him....but then again I could be wrong, but I doubt it. " First, I'm not a Dom, read my profile. I am not BDSM. If you like it or not society says one thing all the while human nature or that of nature says distinctly different things. Let the flames begin oh.. they have already (which by the way was expected). Rapture

Rapture^ -> RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? (6/14/2006 4:05:23 PM)
"It all makes sense to me now! The last time I went to burger king and asked for a burger with plenty of pussy munching and multiple orgasms they looked at me very oddly.... thank you for clearing this up for me - im just a thicko submissive that knows no better, and I bow to your greater understanding" If you think you can or if you think you can't--you're right. CaseNpoint. Rapture P.S. I have yet to have anyone litterally say as the above girl has said and with that tone in person. (and no you wouldnt either in person even if you say here you would)... CaseNpoint.

Rapture^ -> RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? (6/14/2006 4:20:29 PM)
"Bzzzzz! Wrong answer, but we Thank You for playing "You Bet Your Life." A person who posseses the strength to hand over control to someone else is Hardly someone who can't fend for themselves or handle an "actual challenge" without someone there to play CYA for them. " Wrong. That would assume some kind of equality in strength, skills, and the same propensity to use the aforementioned. This propensity to do or not to do something in the hypothetical is naturally unequal. Not everyone has the same abilities or propensity to do or not to do something. I do however suggest if you are to say someone is wrong at least state as to why in your view that said person is wrong instead of a blanket statement. "Call 911? Pppphhhtttttt. Why waste time calling 911 when I have weapons both conventional and Not so conventional to bring to my own defence in a Much shorter time span than it would take the cops to show up on premesis? (Face it, a well aimed cast iron skillet grabbed from the kitchen counter works Just as well as the .44 under the matress - and both are available to me.)" You mean the actual documented events of people both male and female not being able to handle such a calibur or any calibur at that of handgun are false? Sometimes, more is not always the best avenue to go e.g. a .44. Again, an equality of skill etc.... Perhaps even their own weapons being used against them? Though a .40 has more control and less recoil especially in a semi-automatic. e.g. glock. "Calling 911 waits until Afterwards - when I can let them know to bring a body bag with them." ....I wouldnt disagree as to this... Though was this before or after you had no time to gain access to your weapon (the equalizer)? "Wait for my dominant to protect me? Hrmph. I've had more than one verbal tiff in the past with dominant partners who became incensed that I didn't wait for them to do so For Me. They felt I had usurped their perogatives and/or broken some sort of universal protocol that says I have to be incapable of standing on my own two feet. " See above. "The male/female thing is truely out of place in today's world. 1000 years ago, when the highest level of technological achievement was to face off at arm's length with an 8lb sword while wearing 60lbs of chain and plate armor - yes, it had a significant impact." .... Do you know why any effective military trains its soldiers not only in the grandious technological advances but also to do "it" manually ? Technology can be circumvented, destroyed, knocked out, manipulated, or just plainly not work. ............... " 10,000 years ago when the species was still primarily hunter/gatherer, and eatting depended on the strength of someone's arm to bring down game, it was even more significant. These days, owning a decent rifle with a good sniper's scope, the development of pepper spray, and various defencive martial arts techniques have made that manner of thinking completely moot. This arguement also blatantly ignores those situations where the submissive is male and the dominant is female, or couples who are same gender. " Do you know what an EMP is? Imagine one right now on a massive scale. www.google.com . So much for your technology........ Rapture

Rapture^ -> RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? (6/14/2006 4:23:02 PM)
"There is enough confusion in this world without having to deal with demi-gods, who's only purpose is to further their own beliefs with the exception of all others." Like you just did unto itself in having said belief? Surely so. Rapture

hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? (6/14/2006 4:59:12 PM)
I'm very familiar with the phenomina of EMP (electro-magnetic pulse). EMP only affects those things which use electronic circuitry - such as a Tazer - not non-electrical mechanically activated / manual items such as a spray can of mace, one's own hands and feet, a gun, knife, or the cast iron skillet you so skillfully ignored in my post when you responded to it. No electrical wiring to effect = no backlash from an EMP. Our various computers wouldn't work; cars that use computer chips and completely electrical starting systems (ie, pretty much any manual tranny vehical - a standard can be rolled and the clutch popped in order to start) cell phones, pagers, and ipods would become useless. My various handguns, ranging from a plethora of .22 caliber varmit guns to a pair of .45s and everything in between, would still operate quite well. I would not lose the use of my own body from such an electro-magnetic discharge either - and neither would you or anyone else. All of the measures that I mentioned, in fact, are Mechanical - Not Electrical - in nature. Your arguement for EMP does not hold water. Speaking of avoidance - why DID you chose to blatantly ignore the example of the cast iron skillet on the counter, close to hand, and instead concentrate on statistics that you give no references to back up? Use of modern weapons is actually very easy to learn, and learn a great deal of control over, through the application of a simple training course and regular practice. From what I have been able to research personally, every state in the US which has concealed carry laws (my own, for example) makes it mandantory to pass a certification test before licencing. Do statistics lie? Not always, but liars do often create statistics to back themselves up, and statistics are simply sets of numbers to be manipulated in whatever manner the statistician desires to achieve the outcome they're looking for on a given day. Why do military units train for manual (ie hand to hand) combat as well as ranged combat? It's not to avoid EMP unless they are a completely pushbutton unit such as those in place during Cold War years to push the Electronically Activated buttons for The Bomb. No, it is due to the fact that there is no guarentee that any given battle will be over before two things happens : (a) troops run out of ammo, and (b) enemy troops are in to close a range for distance to be truely effective. And in the case of various special forces type units, it is to achieve the ability to strike with stealth - something that cannot be done when dealing with the auditory reverb of a gunshot. Even with all that said, you have yet to address the issue of non-traditional FemDom oriented couples, and non-traditional same gender couples - wherein both contain male submissives, who - by your own arguements, do not need their dominant to cover their ass in any manner. Or was the theoretical EMP strike meant to address that?

ObsidianTeddy -> RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? (6/14/2006 11:44:48 PM)
All i read in your posts is that you have this far fetched belief that submissives are these weak, niave females that cower from the big world untill a man can come and save them. submission in itself takes strength. Untill you have taken more than a step in a subs shoe then perhaps one should not assume? Alot of the subs i have met are rather smart people. Male and female alike mind you as you seem to forget a submissive can be male. I have also known male submissives that could most likely teach you a thing or two without the use of anything in their hands to aid them. But then again i am sure there are female submissives that could do the same. Your views on this life style are so completely narrow minded it's mind boggling. Have you even attempted to seek out and learn from people already practicing the lifestyle you seem to know so little about? From what i read within your posts you seem to believe that a submissive is a drone to be programmed by the Dom. A drone unable to do anything at all to take care of herself. That's a scarey thought. Oh right, you don't know what you are talking about because you are not into bdsm and are not a Dom but feel the need to give your uneducated opinion. Absolutely Brilliant.

givemyall -> RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? (6/15/2006 12:12:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rapture^ I have yet to have anyone litterally say as the above girl has said and with that tone in person. (and no you wouldnt either in person even if you say here you would)... CaseNpoint. Wouldnt say it in person - of course I would, just before I ripped your fcking head off for the fun of it ...... ooooh and then sht down your neck of course ....PMSL (oh yeh and im still a nice person)

Rapture^ -> RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? (6/15/2006 7:39:56 AM)
"I'm very familiar with the phenomina of EMP (electro-magnetic pulse). EMP only affects those things which use electronic circuitry - such as a Tazer - not non-electrical mechanically activated / manual items such as a spray can of mace, one's own hands and feet, a gun, knife, or the cast iron skillet you so skillfully ignored in my post when you responded to it. " I havent ignored anything. Your entire agrument is based upon societies technological advances-which does not change nature or human nature. "This day in age....."..... It is true that CS or OC has a certain affect on people, yet it does not have affect on a few others as well. Again, you are attempting to use some kind of equalizer or tool to bring about a certain result. Why? Why cant you use nothing but yourself? Anyone can use a tool. Then again to what degree of proficiency is that tool used is dependant on the individual-which is unequal. "No electrical wiring to effect = no backlash from an EMP. Our various computers wouldn't work; cars that use computer chips and completely electrical starting systems (ie, pretty much any manual tranny vehical - a standard can be rolled and the clutch popped in order to start) cell phones, pagers, and ipods would become useless. " Try the entire electrical system in any type of electrical...moter or device et al. Look around you, and see what is dependant on electricity and then imagine it not working. What is left? Not much. New Orleans to the most part experienced this and experienced the raw nature of what we all are to one extent or the other. "My various handguns, ranging from a plethora of .22 caliber varmit guns to a pair of .45s and everything in between, would still operate quite well." Sure. "I would not lose the use of my own body from such an electro-magnetic discharge either - and neither would you or anyone else. " True. " All of the measures that I mentioned, in fact, are Mechanical - Not Electrical - in nature. Your arguement for EMP does not hold water. " Actually, it does hold water for each of would then have to depend on our own survival skills to sustain ourselves. "Speaking of avoidance - why DID you chose to blatantly ignore the example of the cast iron skillet on the counter, close to hand, and instead concentrate on statistics that you give no references to back up? " Anything can be used as a weapon. You cannot provide any counter information. Yet then again, being in the legal industry as I am, you are privy to certain information. How about you? What you wanted was a quoted source not so much as if the information was correct or not. Unlike yours, at least I can rely on information I already know of........from third parties. "Use of modern weapons is actually very easy to learn, and learn a great deal of control over, through the application of a simple training course and regular practice." Not everyone has such training even if it is easy to learn or is readily available. Actually, to the most part not many people have advanced training in weapons; say your firearms. Anyone who isnt a felon can go out and buy a firearm (speaking of the legal way of course), and some states only mandate you watch a simple video, pay a fee, and there ya go..... Ya thats training for ya.. "From what I have been able to research personally, every state in the US which has concealed carry laws (my own, for example) makes it mandantory to pass a certification test before licencing. Do statistics lie? " Florida, Arizona, .... Georgia.... a few others very few. I am quite aware of the various requirements and those certificates are not all that difficult to obtain so as long as you meet the background check requirements. Statisically speaking these states have a lower crime rate, yet the crime typically shifted to the tourist population which could not carry. However, we are not speaking about the pro's and cons of gun control. " Not always, but liars do often create statistics to back themselves up, and statistics are simply sets of numbers to be manipulated in whatever manner the statistician desires to achieve the outcome they're looking for on a given day. " Just like yours? Yet if you note my comments about your stasitical evidence that you presented without citing the sources. "Why do military units train for manual (ie hand to hand) combat as well as ranged combat? It's not to avoid EMP unless they are a completely pushbutton unit such as those in place during Cold War years to push the Electronically Activated buttons for The Bomb. " .....Yes not because an EMP... specifically... your right. "No, it is due to the fact that there is no guarentee that any given battle will be over before two things happens : (a) troops run out of ammo, and (b) enemy troops are in to close a range for distance to be truely effective. And in the case of various special forces type units, it is to achieve the ability to strike with stealth - something that cannot be done when dealing with the auditory reverb of a gunshot. " True, and (c) if their techology is knocked out.... and no just not by say an EMP, if they are hit by a convential round of some sort, etc. "Even with all that said, you have yet to address the issue of non-traditional FemDom oriented couples, and non-traditional same gender couples - wherein both contain male submissives, who - by your own arguements, do not need their dominant to cover their ass in any manner. Or was the theoretical EMP strike meant to address that?" I have yet to find any femdom, or female at that, hell not even any males, to boast as they do here online. Frankly, they wouldnt...and still dont. Most of these femdom's are over weight, out of shape, and couldnt really handle themselves if they really had to. Yes i know they will be all up in arms about my comments but that is the fact of the matter. They the femdom's rely on society and societies protections for their "dominance" and so much as what is natural. In the end of all of it, the femdom's are just one thing really, with all honesty, and that is female, and not equal. Are they larger sometimes to other males? Sure. But being male doesnt make the Man either. Frankly, they dont impress me in the least. Rapture

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? (6/15/2006 7:46:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rapture^ If the relationship is not totally on the dominates terms then you dont have submission-you have the above. Except for that fact that all CONSENSUAL relationships are on everyone's terms. Everyone agrees to them, accepts them and desires them- even the Ms ones. quote: Why? Most but not all are just do not have the skill set to actually make someone submit or even hardly defend themselves. That's generally true, but many men lack that as well, and many women do not have that problem. Submission also has nothing to do with being male or female.

Rapture^ -> RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? (6/15/2006 7:54:41 AM)
"All i read in your posts is that you have this far fetched belief that submissives are these weak, niave females that cower from the big world untill a man can come and save them. submission in itself takes strength. " No. Though that is your predisposition. Just as it was your (if i recall correctly) your predisposition that I was imposing my beliefs on others or you. I am merely disagreeing. "Untill you have taken more than a step in a subs shoe then perhaps one should not assume? Alot of the subs i have met are rather smart people. Male and female alike mind you as you seem to forget a submissive can be male." I havent told anyone that they lack intelligence. I have though disagreed with them and stated why I disagreed with them. Right, Wrong or Indifferent... You assume. "I have also known male submissives that could most likely teach you a thing or two without the use of anything in their hands to aid them. But then again i am sure there are female submissives that could do the same. Your views on this life style are so completely narrow minded it's mind boggling. " Was this before or after relearning how to walk again at age 18? Yes I did relearn how to walk again from an injury at age 18. There is nothing narrow minded about me. I am all for differing opinions and positions. I deal with such on a daily basis. However if you cannot handle someone disagreeing with you and wish to resort to name calling, I would suggest that you exit the conversation. ..yes that is a suggestion. Further, I have always stated and do so again, and publically, come and try to make me submit-it will not happen. I have experienced pain both on a psycholigcal level and a physical level more so than any whip could ever inflict. "Have you even attempted to seek out and learn from people already practicing the lifestyle you seem to know so little about? " I have been around a long time.......... thanks. "From what i read within your posts you seem to believe that a submissive is a drone to be programmed by the Dom." A-typical response. What is programmed is the thinking that everything is equal. "A drone unable to do anything at all to take care of herself. That's a scarey thought. " I never said females are helpless. You assume. "Oh right, you don't know what you are talking about because you are not into bdsm and are not a Dom but feel the need to give your uneducated opinion. Absolutely Brilliant. " Actually, in about a year and half I will have a Master's in Forensics... how about you? Rapture

Rapture^ -> RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? (6/15/2006 7:56:20 AM)
lucky, I will respond after work.. out of time to do so now. Rapture

ExistentialSteel -> RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? (6/15/2006 8:24:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44 quote: ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach Nope - one free gift per customer, no exchanges or substitutions allowed, applicable only to new account registrants. Suffer with what you're given, and be glad you get a freebie at all! [;)] (After all, you can't exchange that "free gift for opening an account" that the bank gives you. Heck, ya can't even get grandfathered and get the gift later if you already had an account with them when the program started!) Ah, but when you open an account with Home Depot, you get to choose from an array of gifts. Why not just do that. That way, you can see the gift for what it really is and know if your going to like it or not. I guess this isn't a good time to say that I'm not above re-gifting to family members. LOL Be sure and pick up a free paddle, uh, I mean, 5 gallon paint stirrer when you go to Home Depot.

ObsidianTeddy -> RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? (6/15/2006 10:55:03 AM)
I never assumed you called anyone unintelligent. I just simply stated i felt that alot of submissives were smart. Your opinion is an ill founded one. You speak as if you have attempted the life style. As if you have educated yourself on the different aspects of it, the emotional toll of it when infact you even admit your ignorance in another post. So why do you feel the need to come and give your, yes, thats right, uneducated opinion? Your Masters in Forensics is a fantastic feat and i do tip my hat to you in that regard but, what does that have to do with this topic of conversation? Does it in some way make you more knowledgeable in things you have never even attempted? You continue to bring up irrelevant things to base your disagreement on the subject matter. i am sorry to hear that something tragic has happened to you to cause you to not walk, did it involve d/s? bdsm? a dom? a submissive? a whip? a cane? anything at all to do with the lifestyle? If not, then again, why contribute it to the conversation? Ignorance is not a bad thing as long as you are willing to learn. Do you even -want- to be a Dom/Master?

LadiesBladewing -> RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? (6/15/2006 12:32:44 PM)
Submission is a gift that the submissive individual gives to him or herself. It is a fulfillment of that person, and an ability to express/explore an aspect of him/herself. In the same way, dominance is a gift that the dominant individual gives to him or herself. The "gift" in terms of a D/s relationship is actually something that the Universe gives to the individuals involved and they, in turn, exchange amongst themselves, and that all parties must participate in and work on in order to be able to enjoy it's full benefits -- because the real gift is the relationship itself. Submission is an aspect of the person, but on its own, it is no more valuable than, say, good listening skills -except- in the context of a particular relationship, where both pieces, dominance and submission, must exist in a functional dynamic for -either- to be of any value. Da'Avatar ZWD www.klashaan.org

Rapture^ -> RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? (6/16/2006 5:16:18 AM)
" Except for that fact that all CONSENSUAL relationships are on everyone's terms. Everyone agrees to them, accepts them and desires them- even the Ms ones. " Are they a bilaterial situation? I tend to say, if "you" dont like this or that of me, then hit road. I also say for what you seek, truly seek of a Man who is truly dominate over you will never be yours " " to feel. You will always have a certain emptiness. "quote: Why? Most but not all are just do not have the skill set to actually make someone submit or even hardly defend themselves. -Rapture" That's generally true, but many men lack that as well, and many women do not have that problem. Submission also has nothing to do with being male or female. " Many women think because of this or that then they are "in powered" too....oddly enough this collerates to basically the same group. Then again, I never really take for granted a person is female or male-each of them can have a harmful protential.... "Find stable partners, not a stable of partners. The likelihood of a relationship working long-term is inversely proportional to how often the relationship is announced and how many professions of adoration are made about eachother in public. " Being "stable" is akin to being "normal" ... if you gather my meaning. Rapture

Rapture^ -> RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? (6/16/2006 5:18:38 AM)
"Wouldnt say it in person - of course I would, just before I ripped your fcking head off for the fun of it ...... ooooh and then sht down your neck of course ....PMSL (oh yeh and im still a nice person) " Personally, (dont miscontrue), I wouldnt waste the time to say something like that..... Rapture

Rapture^ -> RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? (6/16/2006 5:20:48 AM)
"You continue to bring up irrelevant things to base your disagreement on the subject matter. i am sorry to hear that something tragic has happened to you to cause you to not walk, did it involve d/s? bdsm? a dom? a submissive? a whip? a cane? anything at all to do with the lifestyle? If not, then again, why contribute it to the conversation?" ...because I can. (there is broader meaning by the way in that statement just so you know.....). Rapture

JessieMe -> RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? (6/16/2006 5:23:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: darkinshadows Submission IMO isnt a 'gift' to the dominant. But it is a gift to me. Just like I have a gift to paint. Now THIS is thought provoking. In this respect I can see calling it a gift. It is truly a talent to be able to submit to someone and must be natural in order to be considered a "gift" in this respect. Many people are gifted with the ability to do things others cannot do and are influenced by them to reach those levels. What a wonderful concept.. Thank you for posting this. I am going to share it with a discussion forum to see what other communication can be shared. jessie

YoungBlondeSlave -> RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? (6/16/2006 5:36:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver I keep coming across this phrase 'submission is a gift'. To me it is arrant nonsense, if submission is a gift then domination is a gift. At best submission is a loan while a relationship is sound. The sub wouldn't be submitting if s/he isn't getting anything out of a relationship in return, it takes two to tango so basically what is happening is an exchange of favours. Am I right or am I wrong? I too agree that submission is not a gift. In my particular case I have always been submissive; since I was a child there is evidence of my submission. However, I do not give this freely to anyone. Also, if I was just submitting myself and not getting anything in return then I would not be a submissive instead, I would be a doormat. I love this lifestyle and all that it has to offer but I'm not going to get involved with anyone who views it as a one-way street type of deal. I do get off on doing things for my owner that he requests of me that I'm not the biggest fan of but, if I don't get a little time that's concentrated on him playing with me and paying attention to me then I will feel like a sucker and that I'm getting taken advantage of. It's never happened but if it did that's how I would feel. So, in my particular case submission is not a gift as much as it is a part of my everyday life and personality. Being able to incorporate it furthermore in this lifestyle and in the bedroom is just a HUGE bonus.

Rapture^ -> RE: Submission is a gift!!!??? (6/16/2006 5:49:35 AM)
"Many people are gifted with the ability to do things others cannot do and are influenced by them to reach those levels. " SMILES. Rapture

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