RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With?

RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

Owner59 -> RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With? (7/23/2012 10:02:21 AM)
FR "Tea Party Senator Says Mentally Unstable People Should Be Allowed To Get Guns Freely" http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zjtTBDO7dgM

KYsissy -> RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With? (7/23/2012 10:23:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: KYsissy The latest wingnut was very intelligent and had extensive booby traps in his apartment. Possibly to deflect police attention from other, far more significant leads. quote: ORIGINAL: KYsissy If an individual is willing to die in the process, there is almost nothing anyone can do to stop them. This one was not willing to die. He had elaborate body armor and as soon as he had accomplished his task, he moved to a place where he could be arrested with the least risk of being bodily harmed. (That is what Timmy did too, back in the Clinton days.) The possibility of being gunned down by the police had to have entered his mind. I say he was willing to die But clearly did not desire it.

DarkSteven -> RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With? (7/23/2012 10:29:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 "One definition of madness is to repeat the same thing over and over and expect a different result. If that’s true, then our inability to regulate guns in this country is barking mad crazy. Every time someone gets shot–Trayvon Martin in Florida, Gabby Giffords in Arizona, the High Schoolers in Columbine, and now movie goers in Aurora–there is understandable outrage and…nothing. Nothing really changes and the statistics are clear: Tens of thousands of Americans die every year from gunshot wounds. And guns are at the heart of the problem. According to the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. I agree, guns are dangerous as hell. But I'm not sure that anything CAN be done to regulate them effectively. quote: •An estimated 41% of gun-related homicides and 94% of gun-related suicides would not occur under the same circumstances had no guns been present (Wiebe, p. 780). Estimated numbers are a dime a dozen. And there's no point in postulating a gun-free world if it cannot be achieved. quote: •Higher household gun ownership correlates with higher rates of homicides, suicides, and unintentional shootings (Harvard Injury Control Center). Duh. Of course gun ownership corresponds with gun-related problems. However, there also is the benefits of having them. You can't do a cost/benefit analysis with only half the equation. quote: •Keeping a firearm in the home increases the risk of suicide by a factor of 3 to 5 and increases the risk of suicide with a firearm by a factor of 17 (Kellermann, 1992, p. 467; Wiebe, p. 771). As above. quote: •Keeping a firearm in the home increases the risk of homicide by a factor of 3 (Kellermann, 1993, p. 1084). What kind of statistic is THAT? One of the main uses of guns is home defense. This statistic does not differentiate between a homeowner shooting an intruder (a "desirable" homicide) with the gun killing a household member or friend (an "undesirable" homicide). quote: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/07/22/why-is-the-equivalent-of-a-911-every-six-weeks-something-that-americans-can-live-with/ I am not at all comfortable with guns, and as soon as something is proposed which could disarm criminals effectively, I'd want to look at it carefully. Until then, gun control proposals are pointless.

Real0ne -> RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With? (7/23/2012 10:40:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 FR "Tea Party Senator Says Mentally Unstable People Should Be Allowed To Get Guns Freely" http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zjtTBDO7dgM so all you need do now is pass a law and staff the office with people who think just like you. ~American amputees inc

thompsonx -> RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With? (7/23/2012 10:49:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx The conclusion that folows your premis is wrong. Consider gun ownership in cuba and switzerland is greater than the u.s. and their homicides are not similar so you have tried to create a false equivilancy. Now to "brady"wasn't he the mouth piece for a republicrat? Um where did you get your numbers because it looks like even switzerland is less well armed than us: quote: ORIGINAL: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2049136,00.html Switzerland trails behind only the U.S. and Yemen in the number of guns per capita. You appear to have found a distinction without a difference. Your article also substantiats my point when it points out that: despite the high number of firearms in the country, government figures show that the rate of gun murders is relatively low — only 24 in 2009, or about 0.3 gun homicides per 100,000 inhabitants. By comparison, the U.S. rate in 2007 — the most recent available figure — was 4.2 per 100,000 people. My point being that gun ownership does not seem to be a factor in gun violence.

Fellow -> RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With? (7/23/2012 11:54:49 AM)
quote: So try to read up on what constitutes viable evidence and go find some. If you have any, present it. Hint: a game of connect-the-dots is not how it works. I hope you do not disagree there is overwhelming evidence for the government involvement in 9/11. The investigation into this case has not been even started. Yet, FBI has already firmly declared they are not looking for associates, the killer acted alone. From the eyewitness testimony: "As I was sitting down to get my seat, I noticed that a person came up to the front row, the front right, sat down, and as credits were going, it looked like he got a phone call. He went out toward the emergency exit doorway, which I thought was unusual to take a phone call. And it seemed like he probably pried it open, or probably did not let it latch all the way. As soon as the movie started, somebody came in, all black, gas mask, armor, and threw a gas can into the audience, and it went off, and then there were gunshots that took place." And other: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoPqz4bQqJY There is no need to rush into conclusions like: "That's an absurd post." I would say staged events are rather common these days. Please to not attach labels to me, I do not know what really happened. However, the evidence that does not fit into official (desired) explanation can not simply be dismissed.

GotSteel -> RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With? (7/23/2012 12:45:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/23/world/americas/analysis-colorado-shooting-mann/index.html There are an estimated 270 million guns in the hands of civilians in the United States, making Americans the most heavily armed people in the world per capita. Yemen, a tribal nation with no history of strong central government or the rule of law, comes in a distant second. quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx You appear to have found a distinction without a difference. Your article also substantiats my point when it points out that: despite the high number of firearms in the country, government figures show that the rate of gun murders is relatively low — only 24 in 2009, or about 0.3 gun homicides per 100,000 inhabitants. By comparison, the U.S. rate in 2007 — the most recent available figure — was 4.2 per 100,000 people. My point being that gun ownership does not seem to be a factor in gun violence. Sure if the other factors in the equation are the same (which they are not) then Switzerland being a distant 3rd to the US isn't a big blow to your argument. My point was more about questioning the quality of your inaccurate unlisted source. If for instance you've been getting your perspective from paranoid-gun-nuts.com I would worry that they've fudged or glossed over other factors in order to make this comparison between an apple and a grenade. Factors such as this: quote: ORIGINAL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland Gun politics in Switzerland are unique in Europe. Switzerland does not have a standing army, instead opting for a peoples Militia to defend their country. The vast majority of men between the ages of 20 and 30 are conscripted into the militia and undergo military training, including weapons training. Due to this fact, the personal weapon of militia is kept at home as part of the military obligations.

GotSteel -> RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With? (7/23/2012 1:22:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fellow I hope you do not disagree there is overwhelming evidence for the government involvement in 9/11. [sm=Groaner.gif]

thompsonx -> RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With? (7/23/2012 1:33:15 PM)
quote: My point was more about questioning the quality of your inaccurate unlisted source. If for instance you've been getting your perspective from paranoid-gun-nuts.com I would worry that they've fudged or glossed over other factors in order to make this comparison between an apple and a grenade. Were your concerns valid? Here is a list that was linked to your source. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_ownership_rate quote: The ownership rate reported is the average estimate taken from "Annexe 4: The largest civilian firearms arsenals for 178 countries. That table gives also the minimum and maximum estimates. Note that for some countries, this margin of error is considerable. E.g. Yemen, ranked near the top with an ownership rate of 54.8, has a low estimate of 28.6 and a high estimate of 81.1. While the United States is ranked for the highest gun ownership rate unambiguously, Yemen based on the margin of error may rank anywhere between 2nd and 18th, Switzerland anywhere between 2nd and 16th Also from this cite it shows cuba as 105 on the list but fairly reliable first hand reports indicate that everyone on that island is armed to the teeth in anticipation of another invasion by the u.s.

kalikshama -> RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With? (7/23/2012 3:34:03 PM)
While there are many points with which I disagree with the senator, you did spin that title just a tad. So, hunters, do you hunt with semi-automatics like the Wisconians? http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/07/22/sen-ron-johnson-100-round-rifle-magazine-is-a-basic-freedom/ Tea party-backed Sen. Ron Johnson (R-WI) says that the right to own high-capacity ammunitions magazines like the 100-round drum that was used to kill at least a dozen people in Colorado last week is a “basic freedom” that is protected by the U.S. Constitution. Fox News host Chris Wallace on Sunday asked Johnson why people needed military-grade weapons like the AR-15 semi-automatic rifle and large ammunition clips used by the shooter in Aurora, Colorado where at least 12 were killed and 58 were wounded. “The left always uses the term ‘assault rifle,’ and they’re really talking about semi-automatic weapons that are used in hunting,” Johnson explained. “That’s what happens in Wisconsin. These are rifles that are used in hunting. Just the fact of the matter is this is really not an issue of guns. This is about sick people doing things you simply can’t prevent. It’s really an issue of freedom.” “Does something that would limit magazines that can carry 100 rounds, would that infringe on the constitutional right?” Wallace wondered. “I believe so,” Johnson insisted. “There are magazines — 30-round magazines — that are just common all over the place. You simply can’t keep these weapons out of the hands of sick, demented individuals that want to do harm.” “I would be very surprised if hunters in your state hunted with a 100-round ammunition feeding device,” Sen. Diane Feinstein (D-CA) disagreed. “In the bill I did, we exempted 375 rifles and shotguns by name so that no weapon used for hunting was effected at all. It’s just the military-style assault weapons.” “But the result of that ban, it didn’t solve any problems,” Johnson insisted. “I look at the statistics and say it has no measurable effect. You can actually argue that it made matters worse. But I don’t want to get into statistics. We are talking about basic freedoms.” In fact, Johnson would have liked to have seen more people armed in that Aurora theater. “It’s certainly one of the rationales behind concealed carry, where criminals actually had to be a little concerned before they commit a criminal act that maybe somebody could stop them,” Johnson told Wallace. “And I think that is the truth, that if somebody — a responsible individual — had been carrying a weapon that maybe, maybe it could have prevented some of those deaths, some of those injuries. I mean, that’s just the truth.” “And maybe you could have had a fire fight and killed many more people,” Feinstein pointed out. Watch this video from the Fox News’ Fox News Sunday, broadcast July 22, 2012.

cuckoldmepls -> RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With? (7/23/2012 3:39:48 PM)
You realize of course that he could have killed everyone in the theater if he had set off molotov cocktails at the entrances and set of a huge bonfire at both exits. Oh wait, I guess you didn't. Well the real reason no one is wiling to give up their guns is because once they disarm America, the government or the U.N. can do anything they want to you, even confiscating your food and sharing it with other countries, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. They can even pass a U.N. tax where 50% of your paycheck goes to fund Islamic Mosques.

LizDeluxe -> RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With? (7/23/2012 3:51:44 PM)
Look at the number of firearms in private ownership in the USA. Look at the number of firearms owners. Now compare those figures to the number of firearms homicides per year. Not suicides - if someone buys a gun and takes their own life you were in no danger. When you look at all of these facts you see that the number of firearms (and firearms owners) involved in these homicides is fractionally small. Gun control measures are the relative equivalent of amputating the leg at the hip to treat a sprained ankle.

jlf1961 -> RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With? (7/23/2012 4:00:45 PM)
Look, I am a democrat and I OWN guns. I do not see how stricter gun control laws are going to change anything. Aside from people having a psych profile to qualify for ownership of a fire arm, there is nothing you can do to stop what is going on. What the gun control lobby wants is to take the freedom to own guns away from people.

atursvcMaam -> RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With? (7/23/2012 4:08:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam Your comparison is not quite on line. 9/11 had nothing to do with guns, and was actually a pretty impressive example of what could be done without using any guns at all. Armed passengers Imho would probably have caused at least one more Flight 93 (schwenksville PA) result) A slight amount of research on your part might disabuse you of your ignorance. The passangers had nothing to do with the crash of that aircraft. Depending on your point of view. If I presume you are correct, The flight still did not reach the intended target unless Al Qaeda intended to put a hole in a field in Pennsylvania. I would have trouble believeing that that was their target. My guess is that the other planes had passengers sitting, praying to survive til the next day. I love the story that the passengers overpowered the hijackers/terrorists, and would but the story that the slowed things down enough for a government reaction.. Sheeple are the ones who let whatever happens, happen

MileHighM -> RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With? (7/23/2012 4:31:45 PM)
You should also exclude all homices committed by illegally obtained firearms.....Gun control won't stop those crimes, so the real issue is there an epidemic of bad behavior among legal gun owners....and the answer is no.

PowerXXXchange -> RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With? (7/23/2012 4:31:50 PM)
Being a strict constructionist regarding the US Constitution, I defend any citizen's right to keep and bear a smooth bore black powder flint-lock musket. PxC

MileHighM -> RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With? (7/23/2012 4:40:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PowerXXXchange Being a strict constructionist regarding the US Constitution, I defend any citizen's right to keep and bear a smooth bore black powder flint-lock musket. PxC LOL, But tit for tat....They didn't specifically state muskets, just the broad term 'arms'

thompsonx -> RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With? (7/23/2012 4:59:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PowerXXXchange Being a strict constructionist regarding the US Constitution, I defend any citizen's right to keep and bear a smooth bore black powder flint-lock musket. PxC Rifled bores and semi-auto weapons were available at the time of the constitution.

GotSteel -> RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With? (7/23/2012 6:11:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: My point was more about questioning the quality of your inaccurate unlisted source. If for instance you've been getting your perspective from paranoid-gun-nuts.com I would worry that they've fudged or glossed over other factors in order to make this comparison between an apple and a grenade. Were your concerns valid? Considering that in response to my request for citation I've been given anecdotal evidence "that island is armed to the teeth" ......yes it's certainly looking that way. quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Here is a list that was linked to your source. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_ownership_rate quote: The ownership rate reported is the average estimate taken from "Annexe 4: The largest civilian firearms arsenals for 178 countries. That table gives also the minimum and maximum estimates. Note that for some countries, this margin of error is considerable. E.g. Yemen, ranked near the top with an ownership rate of 54.8, has a low estimate of 28.6 and a high estimate of 81.1. While the United States is ranked for the highest gun ownership rate unambiguously, Yemen based on the margin of error may rank anywhere between 2nd and 18th, Switzerland anywhere between 2nd and 16th and? quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Also from this cite it shows cuba as 105 on the list but fairly reliable first hand reports indicate that everyone on that island is armed to the teeth in anticipation of another invasion by the u.s. [sm=rofl.gif] must stop laughing to breathe....... [sm=rofl.gif] .....ahhh....gau....eeeeeh...........

Rule -> RE: Why Is The Equivalent Of A 9/11 Every Six Weeks Something That Americans Can ‘Live’ With? (7/23/2012 6:57:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx The passengers had nothing to do with the crash of that aircraft. Quite. For there was no crash.

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 5 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.0625