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RE: Dear Boy Scouts: It's 2012. Not 1912. - 7/24/2012 5:03:01 PM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk
Sorry but quoting from the previous Old Testament doesn't wash. It's not faith, it's not religion, it's bigotry and it's homophobia.

It's also contradictory to a lot of what's attributed to Christ in the new testament, which I was always led to believe trumps the retreads of the Torah.
So if you're favouring that over the stuff Christ actually said, you're not a Christian and you can stuff your bible up your arse.

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Post #: 21

RE: Dear Boy Scouts: It's 2012. Not 1912. - 7/24/2012 5:12:03 PM

CRYPTICLXVI

Posts: 3907
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I would have to dig up my Bible for the actual verses but Jesus did state that he was replacing the old laws by being here and gave a new covenant which basically said "Love god, love your neighbors, etc..." which makes picking and choosing which OT laws to follow absurd. Then again, in dealing with faith based anything, trying to argue the historical, cultural and political roots to what has been written, re-written and finally compiled a somewhat moot point itself.

Personally, and this is just my own personal take, faith should not be based only on "dead words" but based on the experiential and that god's intent, however you define it, would not have been to base your hatred on what had been written for a nomadic tribe thousands of years ago but rather what you are creating, living, experiencing now. Then again, I have no clue, though I have a tenuous understanding of the context and history of the Bible, I do not identify with any denomination of that particular branch of the Abrahamic faiths.

Shrug, no horse in this particular race...

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 22

RE: Dear Boy Scouts: It's 2012. Not 1912. - 7/24/2012 5:30:47 PM

LookieNoNookie

Posts: 12216
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

The Boy Scouts of America has reaffirmed a discriminatory policy that keeps "open or avowed homosexuals" from being members or leaders.

They seem to think that nobody will notice how much harm this policy can have on young, gay Americans--so many of whom already face bullying in school.

But hundreds of thousands of equality supporters have already signed petitions - and now it's up to us to dial up the pressure on BSA to reverse this awful decision.

Lessons in leadership and skill-building are valuable. Lessons in division and intolerance are just plain wrong.

Tell the BSA to drop their misguided and hurtful policy. Send your message now.

Sign the petition: https://secure3.convio.net/hrc/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=1479

Number 1, they'll come around.

Number 2....they're all number 2.

Seriously....it's sad but, all things, like suffragettes and other things....things come around when the money leaves.

(It's nice to see young people getting on the bandwagon and saying...."ya know...this just ain't fucking right").

When I was a boy, a gay male child would have been ostracized by the football team, certainly the boy scouts, others....and while I'm not of that "affiliation"...I think it's wonderful that kids today are joining forces to say "stop it.....just fucking stop it".

I'll add that, history shows that, when women choose a viewpoint, men (generally) follow.

Not quite sure how this applies to the Boy Scouts...but I'm glad to see it.

(in reply to kalikshama)

Post #: 23

RE: Dear Boy Scouts: It's 2012. Not 1912. - 7/24/2012 6:37:08 PM

MalcolmNathaniel

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A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and REVERANT. (emphasis on the last word mine)

That means that a scout cannot be an atheist either. It is a private club and it does not have to fit the same rules as government agencies.

I absolutely agree with OsideGirl that there should not be any government money going to them; they do discrimate against homosexuals. I wonder how much of that is based on worry that homosexual Scoutmasters might do inappropriate things. When I moved to Pennsylvania I was a Scout. The assistant scoutmaster was inappropriate. I punched him in the nuts and reported it. Gay!=pedophile, but a lot of people don't understand that. I think that the BSA is doing it for fear of lawsuits. Most boys are not as strong or willful as I was.

One part of Scouting is being alone in the woods with juveniles and only one or two adults. Parents get worried.

This has been a rather rambling reply TLDR answer: BSA is covering their asses because parents are paranoid.

BTW: There are lots of ropes and knots. It served me well when I realized I was a pervert.

(in reply to stellauk)

Post #: 24

RE: Dear Boy Scouts: It's 2012. Not 1912. - 7/24/2012 6:53:41 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

For Christ's sake: if your balls have dropped to an extent that you know what you want to fuck or be fucked by, you're too old for the fucking scouts already.
(Still, gay bashing shitehawks...)

I don't think that's fair. I was still at a boys' school when I was in the Scouts and hadn't met any girls. The Boy Scout movement is great for boys who have worrying thoughts about other boys and need to be diverted by wholesome pursuits like tying knots, reading compasses and being pressed up against other boys in undersized tents. (It's also a great movement for grown men who have an especial interest in young boys and want to be scoutmasters, but that's another matter.)

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Post #: 25

RE: Dear Boy Scouts: It's 2012. Not 1912. - 7/24/2012 7:22:21 PM

kalikshama

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quote:

The Bible, The Torah and the Koran all three forbid the practice of Homosexuality.

Your cherry-picking argument is invalid.

Why Can't I Own a Canadian?

October 2002

Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a east coast resident, which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative:

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted fan,

Jim

Note to Stumblers:

Some comments criticizing this piece indicate that it was "hijacked" from a West Wing episode. This is a chicken and egg argument in my opinion. I don't really know which came first, and frankly don't care.

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Post #: 26

RE: Dear Boy Scouts: It's 2012. Not 1912. - 7/24/2012 9:54:14 PM

Jaquin

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Joined: 12/12/2011
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FR

In my opinion - something that may be controversial given what will follow - I think the bible should be largely disregarded in todays day and age. Here's why.

Humans, we're plain corrupt. We're evil, we do bad things, we sin, we lie, we cheat, we steal. What cockamamie idea is in our heads to think that after thousands of years with this book entrusted to our keeping that it would still reflect the pure word of God? Even if nobody altered it on purpose who's to say translations were done right? Or that someone translating it, or writing one of the alternative versions (in my quick Google search I found a list containing 32 different versions in English alone), interpreted something in a way that it wasn't originally intended (how many misunderstandings do we have today because we say something and someone misunderstands us?) and wrote it down and then someone else did it.. and again. Ever play the game telephone?

By now the original message/meaning of many parts of the bible could be irreplaceable lost to time.

To me I don't worry about what the bible says, I worry about what God says.

The BSA being a religious group should be accepting of all regardless of life choices - above all else God wants us to LOVE one another, not hate them and segregate them.

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(in reply to kalikshama)

Post #: 27

RE: Dear Boy Scouts: It's 2012. Not 1912. - 7/24/2012 10:09:51 PM

gungadin09

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Joined: 3/19/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
The Boy Scouts of America has reaffirmed a discriminatory policy that keeps "open or avowed homosexuals" from being members or leaders.

They also prohibit atheists, agnostics, and women from joining.

Does BSA get government funding or some kind of preferential treatment? If so, the government is violating the 1st Amendment, and something needs to be done about it.

If not, then they are a private club and they have every right to say who gets to join.

Unless they're receiving government money, I'm not upset about this. Besides, the Boy Scouts are stupid.

Pam

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Post #: 28

RE: Dear Boy Scouts: It's 2012. Not 1912. - 7/24/2012 10:43:51 PM

MalcolmNathaniel

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"The Boy Scouts are stupid"

Who is being exclusive now?

I learned a lot in the Scouts. A lot of it has made me a better person and a better dom. The Boy Scout Manual is still one of the most informative reads for generalized knowledge on survival in the (North American) wilderness. Stupid is not even remotely accurate.

Just for fun: look up how many astronauts were Eagle Scouts.

I may seem to be defending them, but I am not. They are in between a hard-place and a rock. They are just trying to deal with that. If I had my way there wouldn't even be a question: known pedophiles would be executed and the BSA wouldn't have anything to worry about.

(in reply to gungadin09)

Post #: 29

RE: Dear Boy Scouts: It's 2012. Not 1912. - 7/24/2012 11:46:07 PM

gungadin09

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Joined: 3/19/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel
They are in between a hard-place and a rock. They are just trying to deal with that.

They admit they're a religious institution. They can either discriminate against homosexuals OR accept money and priviledges from the government, but not both. My vote would be to cut off public funding but leave them to admit whoever they like.

Pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 7/24/2012 11:47:10 PM >

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Post #: 30

RE: Dear Boy Scouts: It's 2012. Not 1912. - 7/24/2012 11:58:44 PM

MalcolmNathaniel

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Joined: 9/20/2010
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Look at what I posted previously: that is what I said.

I think I said it twice already.

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Post #: 31

RE: Dear Boy Scouts: It's 2012. Not 1912. - 7/25/2012 2:35:33 AM

FrostedFlake

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From: Centralia, Washington
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My first merit badge was earned cleaning my gradeschools campus. That was fun. Not. Didn't last long either. And do schools not have staff to maintain them? The story continues in the same vein for a while, and then I got to build a little wood race car, and let me tell you, I can build a fucking race car. Made it to the final heat. So did my little bro, whose car I helped build, using the same tricks. Four of the six cars that made the final failed to cross the line. Only the scoutmasters sons cars finished.

The scoutmaster was the starter, and no one else touched those cars.

Rather than pick up my vandalized and worthless racing car, I doffed my shirt with all my badges and left it on the track. After that, things got better, at least as far as scouting was concerned. They tried to give me third place, to salvage the situation. In a clear steady voice, I told everyone that prize belonged to the Scoutmaster. I never saw any of those guys again. They were just no longer a part of my life. I wonder why. It's not like I was consciously avoiding them. Was I... ostracized? Or merely an embarrassment?

The finest lesson the Boy Scouts taught me is that no one with any snap wants a thing to do with them. Fuck those lousy, selfish, cheating, boring, bigoted bastards.

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Post #: 32

RE: Dear Boy Scouts: It's 2012. Not 1912. - 7/25/2012 11:17:01 AM

pyschosubmission

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We had gay leaders in our troop when I was a Scout, didn't even see it as an issue

Also my sister was in the Scouts, again really wasn't an issue

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Post #: 33

RE: Dear Boy Scouts: It's 2012. Not 1912. - 7/25/2012 11:36:16 AM

OsideGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk

Sorry but quoting from the previous Old Testament doesn't wash. It's not faith, it's not religion, it's bigotry and it's homophobia.

Which is why I have issues with organized religion. It's used as a soap box to promote intolerance, discrimination and hate.

_____________________________

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Post #: 34

RE: Dear Boy Scouts: It's 2012. Not 1912. - 7/25/2012 11:43:57 AM

TNDommeK

Posts: 7153
Joined: 3/13/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaquin

FR

In my opinion - something that may be controversial given what will follow - I think the bible should be largely disregarded in todays day and age. Here's why.

Humans, we're plain corrupt. We're evil, we do bad things, we sin, we lie, we cheat, we steal. What cockamamie idea is in our heads to think that after thousands of years with this book entrusted to our keeping that it would still reflect the pure word of God? Even if nobody altered it on purpose who's to say translations were done right? Or that someone translating it, or writing one of the alternative versions (in my quick Google search I found a list containing 32 different versions in English alone), interpreted something in a way that it wasn't originally intended (how many misunderstandings do we have today because we say something and someone misunderstands us?) and wrote it down and then someone else did it.. and again. Ever play the game telephone?

By now the original message/meaning of many parts of the bible could be irreplaceable lost to time.

To me I don't worry about what the bible says, I worry about what God says.

The BSA being a religious group should be accepting of all regardless of life choices - above all else God wants us to LOVE one another, not hate them and segregate them.

This^^ Oh and this as well (Stella wrote this I think):You even got a Messiah who gave you a set of teachings and the other half of the Holy Bible - it's called the New Testament.

Not to mention, the old testament was written by man. I find it hard to believe that if a homosexual person has the heart of gold,helps people, is kind, and abide by all things the God wants for us; that he /she will be denied by God. I just don't feel that. The only sin that was said is unforgivable is blasphemy. And sometimes I feel that if those people are led to accept God, that they can be forgiven as well. I agree with Rule on this one, competition is a good idea, let them make their own group or pack or whatever they are called.

People overreact too much IMO nowadays. I mean shit do they think because they have a gay leader or pack master, that he/she is going to teach the scouts to sashay in the woods to "It's Raining Men"?? Damn.

< Message edited by TNDommeK -- 7/25/2012 11:49:36 AM >

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Post #: 35

RE: Dear Boy Scouts: It's 2012. Not 1912. - 7/25/2012 11:47:11 AM

stellauk

Posts: 1360
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk

Sorry but quoting from the previous Old Testament doesn't wash. It's not faith, it's not religion, it's bigotry and it's homophobia.

Which is why I have issues with organized religion. It's used as a soap box to promote intolerance, discrimination and hate.

Sadly this is true, which not only means certain leaders enable bigotry but it also stigmatizes the many followers of these religions who don't have an issue.

The way I see it right now I resolve my issues and do what I can to love my fellow man. I'll worry about what God thinks when I realize I'm dead.

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Post #: 36

RE: Dear Boy Scouts: It's 2012. Not 1912. - 7/25/2012 1:22:27 PM

OsideGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK
that he/she is going to teach the scouts to sashay in the woods to "It's Raining Men"?? Damn.

That was an epic mental image!

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Post #: 37

RE: Dear Boy Scouts: It's 2012. Not 1912. - 7/25/2012 3:00:21 PM

MasterJohnSteed

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[quote
Sorry but quoting from the previous Old Testament doesn't wash. It's not faith, it's not religion, it's bigotry and it's homophobia.

And no matter how many times you repeat it it will never become a fact and will be nothing more than your own personal belief.
[/quote]

Again SO you say, I've debated this subject before. namely that the anti-homosexuality in the bible is all part of the old testament, Nope Sorry its in the new testament as well (I Corinthians 6:9; 10)

Your argument is just like the whole argument of the da vinci code, people wanted to make Jesus Human so that if He is human then Fallible and there for not worthy of worship.

People want to make Homosexuality OK because then they don't have to leave their sinful natures. For All Have Sinned and come Short of the glory of God. But God offers us forgiveness and redemption. But not as long as we continue to sin.

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Post #: 38

RE: Dear Boy Scouts: It's 2012. Not 1912. - 7/25/2012 3:09:07 PM

DaddySatyr

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Cool story, bro! Paul wrote his letter to the Corinthians after Jesus' death. Jesus was not around to show Paul where he was bastardizing the master's teachings.

I have yet to see where any CHRISTIAN can show me where Jesus (the person whose teachings they supposedly follow) spoke against homosexuality (or against a lot of the things to which Christians wish to convert us).

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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Post #: 39

RE: Dear Boy Scouts: It's 2012. Not 1912. - 7/25/2012 3:11:40 PM

kalikshama

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So where's the ban on the rest of the "wrongdoers?"

Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

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Post #: 40

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